Anyone out there using a GPS or smartphone to plan and follow long road rides?

I’ve had a couple of Garmin eTrexes and I’ve got to the point where a few of the idiosyncracies are starting to bug me a little too much.

One of my main requirements is that I need something which can be powered indefinitely by using a USB charger from a dynohub (in theory I have this working with my Vista C, but it can get rather temperamental when the power source keeps swapping between battery and USB when I slow/stop at junctions). Ideally I’d also like to move away from being tied to Windows and a proprietary application as I am with the Garmin.

I realise there are three types of mapping, all of which I’ve used so I’m familiar with the pros and cons of each:
– basic ‘follow the wiggly line’
– as above, superimposed on raster maps
– full vector mapping and routing

The last of these, nice as it is in many ways, seems a bit hard to come by. Nokia Maps and other premium smartphone satnav apps use vector maps, but having tried to pre-plan route with Nokia Maps it’s like pulling teeth and I suspect the others aren’t even that good. So I’m happy with the second provided getting decent maps onto the device isn’t problematic. The first option is one I’d prefer to avoid.

The Bryton units look promising on paper but I’ve read very mixed reviews and also saw one comment that the USB socket is obscured when mounted on the bars/stem – can anyone confirm that? It would rule them out. Would also be interested to hear if the same is true of the Garmin Edge units.

I’ve considered a Motorola Defy as well – using a smartphone (I already have one but it’s not weatherproof) has a lot of advantages but there are two points that count strongly against it: firstly the lack (as far as I can see) of a reliable and compact mount; and also the short battery life if I were to use it on the non-dyno bike (admittedly that could be cured with a piggyback battery, but that would mean I’d need to use a bar bag).

Anyone using anything in conjunction with a dynohub? Anyone found a genuinely good mount for the Defy? Anyone swear by any particular device for really long rides? Any other pearls of wisdom?

Cheers

Garmin edge 800 + Trent battery would do the trick!

The 800 looks the all-singing/dancing option, though it’s priced accordingly and vector maps are extra and tie me to Windows again. Battery’s not an issue with a dedicated GPS since they all have long enough battery life for any rides where I’m not using the dynohub – I’d only need one (and already have one) for a smartphone where IME with the GPS running and the screen on you’ll not get more than 6h out of it.

Coming at the battery issue from a different angle. I use a Garmin Oregon 550T on and off the bike. It takes AA batteries so I can always carry spares or get them from pretty much anywhere that has a shop.

Depending on how you mounted it you could still access the USB port although it would mean exposing it to the elements so it might not be a great idea in bad weather.

It does have some drawbacks. The screen is not great in bright sunlight, not a problem when handheld as you can shade it but once bar mounted if the sun is just at the wrong angle it can be tricky to read. Also the touchscreen whilst adequate is pressure sensitive which is good in that it still works with gloves on but compared to a capacitive touchscreen it can feel a little industrial. Other than those two points it’s been very good.

Another vote for a Garmin edge 800 here. No need for a back up battery pack with it too in my experience for cycling unless your staying in the wilderness overnight

I also have a 62s for mountaineering and that seems to use more battery power for some reason than my 800 does with the same power settings on. I personally prefer the rechargable battery on the 800 but it wouldn’t work well if I was in the hills for a few days, hence why I also have the 62s that takes AA.

As a comparison, I’d say my iPhone would be dead in about 2-3 hours from Full charge hiding gps software

Oregan 450 here very good and I think pretty robust after a few years use. Great on off road. Road mode was a real plus with car like gps routes with turn indicators etc. 800 lighter but maybe no so robust?

The 800 looks the all-singing/dancing option, though it’s priced accordingly and vector maps are extra and tie me to Windows again.

Garmin works fine with Mac – if thats what you mean.
You can read the maps on your computer through Basecamp which is a nice feature, as you don’t have to be online to plan routes.

I use my Samsung Galaxy S2 on Android. I run Memory Map Tracker and can plot routes on the PC using Memory Map or get them sent to me by others via email and use the gpx routes. You can navigate easily with MM Tracker. I use a solar charger as back up. This can be charged from the mains to fill it up. Obviously not ideal if it’s a crap day to recharge. I take it the dynamo option isn’t brilliant although it is something I’ve considered? In bright sunshine the Galaxy S2 has a very bright screen although this is adjustable to save battery power. I’m sure other Android phones would be suitable as the S2 is quite large.

For mounting, I made my own, as you say there is no suitable secure mount on the market particularly if you hit a bump. They all seem to have a really long arm. I’ve used a Cateye light bracket and fitted a small sheet of aluminium to it. This is covered with non slip matting to a) stop the phone slipping b) prevent it getting damaged. The phone is then held in place with an o-ring.

This Bracket

“Garmin works fine with Mac – if thats what you mean.“

Heh – no, I use Linux these days; there are only about 3 apps that are making me keep a Windows disk and one of those is Mapsource. I’d like to get that down to zero, although I think I’ll have trouble replacing Lightroom.

The 800 has a lot going for it but I can’t help thinking that it’s twice the price of a smartphone and is nowhere near as flexible. I think I’m leaning towards a Defy but it’s the mount that’s the real sticking point. If I could solve that then that would change things a lot.

“For mounting, I made my own“

Sounds interesting, would you be able post up pics and some idea of how tricky it is to get the plate attached to the bracket? Would be most useful.

I’ll do so when I get home. It’s easy enough to get the plate to attach. Just drill ahole the size of the bolt then use a larger bit to bevel the edge so the bolt fits.

The 800 has a lot going for it but I can’t help thinking that it’s twice the price of a smartphone and is nowhere near as flexible.

It is, however, completely waterproof & more robust than many smartphones & has massively longer battery life than a smartphone with GPS on – 18hrs for the 800 vs. 3ish hours for a smartphone if you’re using it as a navigation aid (i.e. using the screen on every so often).

Seriously, the 800 is awesome. As mentioned above, battery life is really good, all the features are really useful and its a decent size and weight. Worth the price if you can stretch to it.

That said my shop have just got the new 200 in and that looks mint. And its not bad money either

I need something which can be powered indefinitely by using a USB charger from a dynohub

Assuming this is some kind of long distance ride? Round the world?
I get about a week from a pair of duracell AA in my Vista HCX, running a good 8hrs/day. Always have a spare pr of AA in the bag.

proprietary application

I just use gpsbabel on Linux to transfer GPX (or KML, etc.) data to/from GPS. Command line ftw 🙂
And maps are just a gmapsupp.img file, drag/drop on to the microSD card (I tend to do that via SDHC card reader, rather than over the USB).
Must admit, I do need to grab some updated maps off the web and copy over.

That said my shop have just got the new 200 in and that looks mint. And its not bad money either

That’s just a glorified Cateye though, different kettle of fish really.

There are other advantages of the Edge series – ANT+ compatibility too (although you can get plug-in dongles for smart phones) and they’re far neater, better training tools etc. If you just need maps then perhaps a smart phone with some sort of back up battery is a better idea.

Anyone out there using a GPS or smartphone to plan and follow long road rides?

Used the course function on an Edge 500 to navigate Lejog – loaded up a course of each of the 8 days. Worked great. Plus battery in Edge 500 lasts ages.

“It is, however, completely waterproof & more robust than many smartphones & has massively longer battery life than a smartphone with GPS on – 18hrs for the 800 vs. 3ish hours for a smartphone if you’re using it as a navigation aid (i.e. using the screen on every so often). “

The Defy is in theory just as weatherproof and does a whole world of stuff that a dedicated GPS doesn’t (including useful GPS-related stuff like being able to upload/download routes from anywhere, wirelessly). Battery life is a pain, but the dyno would cure that for the most part. And let’s not forget it’s about £200 cheaper 🙂

“Assuming this is some kind of long distance ride? Round the world?“

Ha! No. But rides of up to ~36h.

“I get about a week from a pair of duracell AA in my Vista HCX, running a good 8hrs/day.“

50 hours of battery life? Seriously? I reckon on about 18-20 in my Vista C if I don’t use the backlight and 10-12 if I do.

“I just use gpsbabel on Linux to transfer GPX (or KML, etc.) data to/from GPS.“

Yup – GPX or similar track data is never going to be a problem (can already do that with GPSBabel on my Vista C), but routes are more problematic and vector maps need the City Navigator software though, right? Presumably the OS (etc) maps are raster-only and don’t have the vector data to support routing and thus proper directions on the device…? (I do find it useful that it tells me the name of the road I need to turn into, for instance – though it’s not a deal-breaker of a feature.)

I really want a good mount for my Defy as I the battery is not so much of an issue for me. Has anyone made a Defy mount? the O-ring idea might work. Will have a play.

How do you find the Defy as a phone/GPS, btw? (I already have an Android phone so I’m familiar with that)

The GPS is far more accurate than my old Xperia x10 and seems to be pretty good for battery I can get 2 days out of it with GPS on and only a couple of calls.

I use EndoMondo and MapDroid for all my tracking but planning some longer trips in the summer and don’t want it in a bar bag. I did find this http://www.amazon.co.uk/UltimateAddons-Bicycle-Motorbike-Resistant-Motorola/dp/B004N20D0S

But I would have to open the bag all the time.

I like them so much I bought 20 for the small business I support ranging from very techy people to not so, and they all love them.

I think most of the cases are designed to still be usable with the phone inside (I can certainly use my Desire through gloves or a bag – the capacitive screen surprisingly works far better in those conditions than the resistive one on my Nokia). Of the mounts I’ve seen, that looks one of the more compact ones – the little bag bit is pretty pointless for the Defy, though… wonder if it can be hacked off and the back plate modified?

Not pretty but i use a small ziplock sandwich bag for waterproofing.

“I get about a week from a pair of duracell AA in my Vista HCX, running a good 8hrs/day.”

50 hours of battery life? Seriously? I reckon on about 18-20 in my Vista C if I don’t use the backlight and 10-12 if I do.

Was getting 3 complete ski days (in about -17C) from a cheap pair of AA 2 weeks ago. The final pair actually died just as I finished, the previous pairs were giving a low battery warning, so changed them anyway.
Usually get 5-6 days from a pr MTBing in summer. Backlight is off 99% of the time.

“I just use gpsbabel on Linux to transfer GPX (or KML, etc.) data to/from GPS.”

Yup – GPX or similar track data is never going to be a problem (can already do that with GPSBabel on my Vista C), but routes are more problematic
Only issue I had with routes was that N routes all had the same routepoint names. I just quickly hacked the files to make them unique.
Well that and making sure that gpsbabel command line had the right switch (-r?), since it defaults to tracks or waypoints. Took me a while to suss that one.

Never played with maps through software. Only ever grabbed OSM gmapsupp.img map files and copied them to SD card. Tend to keep UK, bits of Germany and Slovenia on there, and just rename which folder I want to be active the active /GARMIN one. Think some OSM ones are routable, but with OSM you rely entirely on what people have mapped (excellent around here, not so good in the Cairngorms for example).

I’ve just got a secondhand HTC Hero off here to use solely as a GPS with MMTracker (I have all of UK at 25k and 50k Mem Map files).
I get about 2 1/2 hours out of it with the display on constant, I’ve just got a 2600mAh battery for it (standard is 1350) and a solar-powered 2600 backup, so will see how it goes.
Got a waterproof bar-mount case which seems surprisingly sturdy so far. Once I’ve done a few more test rides with the new batteries, I’ll report back, with display switched off etc.
All in I’ve spent about £80 on it, replacing the £300 Mem Map adventurer which kept failing.

You should be able to load routes on to the 800 from Linux. It appears as a USB mass storage device, and you can just copy GPX files into a certain directory and they become available. Not sure about getting data off it again though.

I’m pretty sure that the free maps that come with it are vector. You upload a GPX route or track, and it then uses its vector map to generate turn by turn directions from that. I paid for the OS maps, which are raster, but it flips back to the vector map when it’s giving you a turn direction.

I previously had an Edge 305, and plotted routes and just “followed the line” generally worked pretty well, but the routes had a 100 point limit which was pretty limiting.

From previous thread…..iphone4 as GPS

Viewranger App….download 1;25000 OS maps as needed in 5km square grid “tiles” (app comes with credit to buy tiles and top ups available “in app”) so no need to fork out£90.00 for the whole country.

Mount in waterproof case….best find on my internet hunt and brilliant in practical use is this…. http://www.cyclewiz.co.uk/BikeConsole-Bike-Mount-for-iPhone-4S-4-3GS-3G_AY5CC.aspx?0
….allows rotation to landscape and handles cross country off road well with the supplied mount. Probably not ideal for full on black route trail centre but then why would you need it then anyway??!

Best feature of the viewranger app…..you can mark out waypoints on a chosen route and then with it handlebar mounted the GPS dot shows you where you are on your route with the route a series of coloured lines(customisable in colour/thickness) along your waypoints. You can export or import routes as well. Turn off wifi and bluetooth, tone down screen brightness and get 4 hour+ rides constant on with an iphone 4. Turn off screen lock and tone down brightness further and you have a brilliant night ride always on map with live location update! Run it alongside an app like cyclemeter and you get to track speed, distance, altitude, and route on map + ability to export, give live tracking info, track competitors etc.

I have been able to chart out night rides in completely unknown countryside near where I live, on and off road and discover lots of new territory without having to stop start to look at conventional maps to work out where the hell I am. Result.

Bez,

I use a Defy+ and it is the best smartphone I have had for bike computer duties. It lasts between 5 to 6 hours (with screen set for two minutes turn off to lowest light level) and works well with Android bike apps (I use RunGPS).

The main reason I got it was I was fed up trying to get decent waterproof bar mounted cases. Obviously it is waterproof so does not need that protection.

I just bought a PDair Aluminium case (Expansys sell them) and modified it to fit on the stem. It is pretty straight forward to do, simply drill four holes in the bottom of the case, then use cable ties to attach it to the stem.

The case has a neoprene lining inside so it provides some extra shock absorption. I have used it now on some pretty bumpy roads (cobbles etc) and the phone has stayed in it with no problems. It is also fine off road again with no issues. The waterproofing is good and does what it says on the box.

On extra long rides I carry a spare battery but never needed it so far.

Regards

Bez,

And some photos of the mount

P1010520 by spangelsaregreat, on Flickr

P1010521 by spangelsaregreat, on Flickr

P1010522 by spangelsaregreat, on Flickr

Regards

For using a Garmin with Linux, you can use QLandKarteGT. Its does most things that MapSource does. You can use it with free OSM maps, and plot routes etc. http://www.qlandkarte.org/

Or you could plot routes on Bikely / Bikehike / GPSies etc, then download them to the Garmin.

For which GPS, also worth looking at the eTrex 20 (or eTrex 30 if you need cadence/heart rate). It works as a USB mass storage device, so easy to copy GPX files for routes/tracks on and off. And you can use it with free OpenStreetMap mapping. OSM is now pretty near complete for roads in most parts of the UK.

That aluminium case is a good call – thanks. I have the same Acor bar extender as you (and a pathological dislike of zip ties) so if I got one I’d see if I could mount it to a proper bracket on that. My eTrex sits nicely on that just in front of my stem, it’s a good position for it.

Meanwhile I’ve ordered a bracket for my Desire just to find out if there’s anything that gets on my tits when using a phone as a navigation tool.

Will take a look at the eTrex 20 and QLandkarte.

Cheers

Bez

I am sure you could get something from the doctor to cure your zip tie problem!

I mainly use them as it means it won’t fall off. I have had a few previous cases and at one point the case has come out of the mount if you hit a big enough hole!

Regards

Tried that Qlandkarte prog (quite a while ago), and it seemed like a right pita to use. Made no sense to me. Hence why I just drag/drop maps on to SD, and gpsbabel for the gpx files. Maybe it’s improved more recently?