I'm looking at getting a Garmin for my bike, probably the Legend HCx. Will mainly use it for road riding but also to a bit of XC exploring..
Are they actually any good? Could I just leave my house, enter a destination and have it lead me there, preferably avoiding A roads? - or are these handheld units still fairly basic compared to the ones in cars?
The Edge 705 certainly has the ability to give turn-by-turn directions on roads, using the same software as the Nuvi sat-navs. I believe you can select that you're on a bike, so it will certainly avoid m'ways, not sure about A-roads though.
I may be wrong, but I don't think the Legend can do that.
I use a Legend on every ride. BUT>>>they are not like in car sat navs. They will not just navigate you. You have to plot/import your intended route before you set off, then they will tell you how to follow this. I use Memory Map for this, but there are lots of other systems out there, a lot of which would be better left in Disneyland!!!
If you cannot plot a route on a map then you'll have difficulty with a Legend, or any of the other similar devices. You cannot just put in a destination and be directed there. They do not come with built in maps, and you cannot put OS maps on them. Bodges do exist, with varying degrees of usefulness.
They are a completely different item from an in car Satnav, and are also completely different form a PC/laptop. You'll have to learn new skills. I love mine, and wouldn't leave home without it, but there is a skill to using it.
Hope I've not put you off!!!
I always assumed (correctly from what's been said so far) that they are closer to the sort of GPS you get in a boat than 'Satnav'.
At least you don't have to allow for the tide on a bike 
You need to be a bit careful using an Edge 705 on a mountain biking, especially if, like me, your "skillz" are a little lacking.
This happened today - over the bars and bike into a handily placed tree. The Garmin was on the handlebars and is now properly busted. Thankfully Garmin offer a fixed fee repair service!
At least you don't have to allow for the tide on a bike
Unless you go out with Barnes that is 
if you can, get one with a real compass, rather than bearing calculated, as this can cause you to get lost at the very start of the ride when you go racing off in the wrong direction... 
The legend/Edge can do "turn by turn" sat nav style routing but you need to buy additional software (Topo GB or one of the road specific ones). You don't get the voice but you can put an address in and it'll tell you how to get there and give you graphical representations of junctions etc.
The one problem I have with the eTrex (I've got a vista HCx) is it's quite bulky on your bars, and the garmin mount gets quite rattly after a while (Mine actually fell off a few months back).
Other than than it's fab and does everything you're likely to need, except OS mapping - the TOPO maps are ok but not enough detail to plan a route with.
Oh, and I'd say don't bother with the compass - the digital ones (as on the Vista) need to be 100% level to work and any deviation will give a reading way out!
Right thanks, seems like I should have a look at the software first. Is it expensive? Anyone know if there are any good quality free 'topo' style maps available anywhere?
Oh and I suspected that electronic compasses are a bit of a waste of time!
I have a Garmin 60cx for work and I find the TOPO gb, how can I say this...a bit sh1t.
If you are used to OS maps with RoW, the Garmin TOPO is very poor in comparison, it lacks boundaries and RoW and even tracks in many places. I would look at other options that use the OS 1:50k maps.
I have used the sat nav option in the van on the console but like all sat navs it is based on crappy A to Z maps so you can end up at FPs which a re shown as a white road.
Never used memory maps but it does sound a better option.
What about an OS map and highlight pen?
Yes maybe your right rangerbill, OS maps work too. Perhaps I still have to wait a few years for GPS OS style maps.
The beauty of the simple Garmins is that you can see if you are following your route or have deviated with just a quick glance down which is really usefull if you are hammering down something steep pulling "that" face!
It just gives you the shape of the whole route and your position. You just zoom down to the big scale and you can see yourself on the line you are following in line with your direction of travel. As you go along the turns appear at the top of you screen and move towards your position and when they align - voila there is your turn! Sometimes.
I use Memory map to plot my routes but Wheresthepath looks good and is free(Donation).
I was chuffed to bits with my old Summit when we used it for a couple of rides up the N York Moors.
The legend HCx does do turn by turn route calculation but the older B&W Legend does not.
you also need maps that support route calculation I don't know about the topo GB but the City Navigator NT does. European Metroguide only does route calculation when cracked.
topo maps here
http://sites.google.com/site/talkytoasteruk/ukmaps
(now supports route calculation(not off road))
No I'm not affiliated to talkytoaster it's just one that I've tried and found to work OK
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Map_On_Garmin
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Map_On_Garmin/Download
route planning etc
http://www.bikehike.co.uk/mapview.php
http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm
http://www.bikely.com/
http://www.everytrail.com/
http://bikeroutetoaster.com/
http://www.gpsies.com/convert.do
Anything I've missed?
Wot he ^^ says.
Route calculation is a function of both the unit AND the mapping being used. Note that you can enter multiple map types on certain Garmins units (and definitely the Legend HCx - I have up to four different maps overlaid on one another for certain areas).
So:
best for off-road? The Topo maps (But they're not up to OS map standard)
best for on-road route calculation? City Navigator
But you can install more than one at a time and switch layers on/off as required.
Listen to abductee. He knows his stuff.
best for off-road? The Topo maps (But they're not up to OS map standard)
Must disagree. The talkytoaster maps in abductees post are far superior to TOPO. So good in fact, that I've got the North of England TOPO maps sat here, on a card, looking for a good home.
Must disagree
I think you've assumed that I was saying the Garmins TOPO maps are better the talkytoaster maps. I wasn't actually. I was inferring that topo maps (of any sort!) are better for off-road navigation than City Navigator.
And I've yet to see any Garmin-compatible topo maps that are as good as OS maps. Yes, I know you can get OS maps on Oregons and Dakotas, but you know what I mean...;-)
One of my mates has a satmap, seems excellent to me
Full OS mapping, zoomable, smooth and very accurate (very rarely drops to some sort of basic mode when you're in thick forest)
(I THINK) You'd have to plan a route on it for it to guide you but could use it just as a map with a dot on it with no effort at all
(not exactly cheap though)
I have the Legend hcx and use it in addition to a compass and map - never thought about using it instead of. It is great at what it is and used along side rather than as a replacement.
Thanks abductee thats an impressive list!
I've got a Garmin eTrex and use Tracklogs, and they are fantastic together. But I still wouldn't leave the house without a paper OS map of where I am going.
[quote] markgraylish - Member
but you know what I mean...;-)
Yup, I think we agree.
Check out the Garmin Dakota. You can also add OS style maps. (GB discoverer)
I have just ordered one so cannot give a review but it looks like it tick the boxes from the spec. Heres hoping.
Tenmen:
I've got Tracklogs and have wondered about an etrex. Keeping an eye on such threads myself!
So.... you transfer your Tracklogs route to the unit every time?
Then just use it for major route changes? ( i.e. 'turn left here.....type stuff?)
yours still asking numpty questions (!)
Q
So.... you transfer your Tracklogs route to the unit every time?
Then just use it for major route changes? ( i.e. 'turn left here.....type stuff?)
Pretty much
As you ride along the unit is drawing a line on the screen
There is also a line for the route [or track] that you uploaded to it & then told it to navigate it
You try to keep the 2 lines corresponding
you can also use the compass screen & it will point to whichever way you need to go
I use the compass screen, and as long as it's pointing dead ahead I know I'm right. If it points to the side then I need to turn. Simple really, as long as the plotting on the map is accurate!!!
Check out the Garmin Dakota. You can also add OS style maps. (GB discoverer)
I have just ordered one so cannot give a review but it looks like it tick the boxes from the spec. Heres hoping.
The Dakota's kind of a snack-sized version of the Oregon, which I have used with OS mapping loaded. It's ok, but I'd prefer a bigger screen like the Satmap has, a more intuitive interface and clearer reproduction of the mapping. On the plus side, because they use Vector mapping, the Oregon and the Dakota will do turn by turn navigation for reaching the trailhead etc.
Of the stuff I've used, I'd say the Satmap Active 10 is the best dedicated OS map using standalone unit and the ViewRanger software on a smartphone is excellent. I'd take either over the Garmin, which seems to have OS mapping as a sort of bolt-on afterthought. I haven't used the Memory Map unit, but Memory Map software feels a bit clunky to me.
Any one use The Hug for their mapping?
You should try it...
I combine it wih GPSU, and, for the record use an older eTrex Legend
Phatman - once you've planned a route and stuck it on your Legend what do you actualy see on the screen?
The hug net is good.
GPSU is limited to 100 waypoints so I would use EasyGPS to upload the route to the GPS if you don't have commercial software.
this shows what the route looks like on memory map and a GPS60
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koLez0mA3Ws
Some screen shots of the GPS display here
http://www.tramsoft.ch/gps/garmin_etrex-legend-hcx_en.html
As Chatsworth said the navigation arrow is easiest to follow when you have rain on the display, your eyes are blurred with tears and the bike is shaking about over rocks.
This is the talky toaster map display
The garmin handlebar mount for 25mm bars is a good fit but the one for 30mm bars is loose. this can be fixed with a couple of strips of insulation tape.
I agree that the Dakota, Colorado and Satmap will be better with OS bitmaps but at a price.
it depends on what screen your looking at, i'm assuming your talking about the map screen. In which case it shows main roads (M's, A's, ), train lines, bodies of water, place names and all entered waypoints and locations points. If i'm riding an unfamiliar route, I'll enter the waypoints and other points of interest (summits, bothy's, escape routes etc) in GPSU or The Hug before uploading them to the gps unit.
When following a route the map shows, amongst other info, the bearing to the next waypoint. Upon reaching a waypoint (assuming your following a preset route) the gps immediately sets you off on your next bearing.
Having said all that I've usually familiarised myself with an area and do carry a map when riding somewhere new, the gps is usually for confirmation, motivation and route logging.
@Abductee
The free shareware version of GPSU is limited to 100 waypoints, the full version can handle 65,000 waypoints.
Capacity Limitations* Freeware version
This version is limited to 100 waypoints, 5 routes of up to 10 waypoints each, 500 trackpoints, bitmap image size of 2000x2000 pixels.
* Shareware version
This version can handle up to 65000 waypoints, 20 routes, 65000 trackpoints. The bitmap image size is limited by the available storage resources of your system.
MemoryMaps is IMO not worth the money due to the cost of the maps, something GPSU solved by allowing you to calibrate any scanned image or map, thus not limiting you to digitally compatible maps
Rangerbill
Your so called crappy A2Z maps are an aid to drivers and never have or will be targeted at non road travel, as footpaths, bridleways are only a representation of what is on the ground, any data is taken from OS mapping under liscence(licsense)
I agree it would be difficult to justify memory map now that all the free internet based mapping sites have come into being. plot your route using the hug or bikehike or where's the path and then upload it to the gps with GPSU (Shareware not freeware) or easyGPS.
Same with the maps that you load onto the GPS. It would be difficult to justify Garmin Mapsource topo products when there are free OSM maps available.
I put the memory map video on so that tombird can see the process.
My Etrex Legend has a cracked screen from one of my many "offs". Can't say I would want anything more expensive on my riser bar though but then I'm a rubbish rider.
I use Tracklogs and sometimes export routes to the gps and just follow the line. It's worth spending time plotting and not do it in a hurry.
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