Is there a difference, other than £20 in some places.

Looking at getting one ordered, just wanted to be clear.

I’ve got a Phantom, and had a look at the newer Phantom II. I think the only real difference is the material. The older version has a much thicker type material, the newer is much thinner, though from experience (I’ve got a Xenon in the same thinner material) both are pretty windproof.

It might be a psychological thing with it being thicker but I think the older one is a touch warmer, but not much in it. Newer one is a touch more flexible with it being less bulky.

In terms of zippy off arms they are both the same.

Thanks for that breatheeasy, I did try on a Phantom 11 and thought the material was pretty thin. Maybe its more technically advanced magic fibres that justify an extra £20 🙂

My Phantom (not V2) is going great still after 6 years 🙂

I have the older style and it is great when worn next to the skin or over a thin base layer. It fits well and snugly and feels soft and dry next to the skin.

The newer ones feel slimy next to the skin, seem baggier and are no longer advertised as suitable for wearing next to the skin. It seems to be more of a jacket rather than a “put it on and forget about it” garment that the old one was. I sold my newer one after 2 rides in disgust at it’s performance on every level compared to the old one. The new one is just another jacket.

This is a shame as the original is the single best item of clothing I have come across for riding in our climate. I’ve resorted to repairing my old one and hate to think what I’ll have to do when it finally dies.

I guess this happened as people couldn’t shake off their layering mentality so Gore didn’t sell many. The same issue has happened with the softshell concept as piloted by Montane, Patagonia and Buffalo and what is being marketed as softshell (i.e layering with non-waterproof breathable garments) in the climbing world. I much prefer to get dressed and just ride rather than stopping all the time to change, which was the originals strength. Barring hammering rain you only needed the one top for 9 months of the year!

Mild rant over (although Gore, if you are listening…..). Hopefully you get the point about the differences.

Thats good to know. Are they supposed to be a snug fit or pretty slack.
Ive a 40′ chest and the small fitted nice and snug, but for a 40’chest they say a medium is better. They didnt have one in to try 🙁

I have a Phantom 2 and find it a bit on the warm side. If it’s really cold, I use a thick base layer, otherwise I use a thin one or none at all. The cut is a bit square with too much flap around the waist, but otherwise I like it. It has removable arms which I occasionally use.

Thanks Shackleton, thats a good write up. Im liking the sound of the Phantom 1. I would be wearing with just a base layer most of the time.

The old one was meant to be snug and act as base layer and shell. The new one is a jacket so as long as it isn’t catching on stuff I guess it is OK. I found that I would have to have very narrow shoulders and a beer gut for the newer ones to fit snugly all over! While I was getting my old one repaired I used a merino thermal coupled with either a montane pertex gilet or jacket and got much better performance and comfort than the newer phantom for less money and they took up less room if I did want to take them off.

’tis only my opinion mind, based on what I expect from a soft shell. If you only want a jacket and are prepared to take it on and off then the new one should be fine. If you want a capable, comfortable, adaptable garment you may be disappointed.

Edit: I seem to be a bit slow on the posting! Hope it is still relevant.

Stevo210 – Where can you get the older phantoms from? I’d love another but all of the places I found that claimed to have them (based on the piccie) had just used the older image!

mmmmm you may be right….
http://www.thesquareshop.com only have red and black in limited sizes, dont know if its genuine version 1.

Looks like the newer bin bag version. Sod it!

Test

Evans Cycles are doing these two jackets. Whats the difference and is the first link a Phantom version 1?

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/gore-bike-wear/phantom-jacket-ec011707

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/gore-bike-wear/phantom-aw10-jacket-ec024439

cheers

Sadly they are the later version. The grey and yellow ones are just the colourways that no one wanted!

For reference (note N2S logo and reflective bits on arms):

Old

New

Wow, that pretty much clears that up then, big difference in style.
What are the recommendation for a super quality (non bin bag) soft shell?

I agree with everything Shackleton says about the old one, but I’m not nearly so down on the new one. The newer ones are still very good. The older ones are better (undoubtedly the best piece of clothing I’ve ever bought – I think I exhausted all available avenues long ago looking for a second one as backup and ended up with the new one instead) but don’t let it put you off, particularly if you’re not a beanpole like me as the looser fit of the new ones may suit better.

I use both regularly and frequently and if I hadn’t had the earlier one I’d be impressed with the new one (yes it was a disappointment at first but over time I’ve found that it does work almost as well)- definitely worth a punt if you can get them at a good price.

Otherwise, Endura stuff is great and ISTR they do some very appealing soft shells – I suspect if I was buying one now they’d be my first port of call.

Thanks Bez, that’s really helped. You’re probably right, its my first softshell. Im coming from a very moist Altura sweating cape, so anything thats a little more breathable will be a pleasant change. What’s ISTR?

Sorry: I seem to recall.

Young’uns today….. I’m searching for a brand of jackets 🙂

Young’un, I wish!

No, just look up Endura 🙂

Stevo – you could do a lot worse than the Endura Stealth – pricey but very good. breathable, waterproof, fairly neat fit, robust.

I deliberated between it and the Gore for a long time and, although I only tried the Gore on in the shop, have been delighted with the Endura. With a thin base layer it’s good to minus 5 zipped up and plus 5 with all the pit zips open. I had it on for a minus 12 night ride with a thick Merino base layer (Icebreaker 320) and was toasty

For what its worth, I’m very pleased with my Phantom 2.

It’s my first soft shell and it does everything well. Defiantly on the snug side, I’m 6’2″ and have a large, and although its by no means roadie tight, its no parachute!

like my phantom 2
i like the fact it’s thin can always add layers and it’s not as tight as my last softshell but don’t need to be i’m no road racing whippet

We sell loads of the Phantom II – by far our most popular jacket. I’m a 42″ chest and used to take an XL Phantom but now a L phantom II.

They are thinner, as mentioned but offer the same protection from my experience. Beware on N2S – I didn’t wear base layers (but now have learned since owning a shop) and I’m sure that’s why my old Phantom is smelly (the ONLY reason I’ve got another one now after 5 years!).

To summarise, buy the modern one, obviously from a great retailer such as…well, us and enjoy years of use (coupled with decent base layers).

Thanks for all your advise.
Ive tried on the Stealth and thought it felt a bit too rubberised and stiff and a little too warm for me.

I can’t understand why Gore felt the need to mess with the Phantom, either the cut or the material. I prefer the one large pocket as well.
And why haven’t more manufacturers copied the design- full length zip, zip off sleeves, but leaving a bit of protection, and the n2s give it huge versatility. Can’t count the number of times I’ve set off zipped up to the chin in the cold, and ended up with the sleeves off and zip full open.

I would say arm warmers give you that but with a bit more versatility. I rarely use the zip off sleeves of the Phantom. Only when it’s really warm do I bother. It’s quite a faff and almost impossible to do without stopping. The sleeves also add more unwanted warmth, as you get more material around the sleeves. If I was replacing mine, I would look at one of the other Gore softshells without the sleeves and a slimer cut.
It’s good that Gore do produce all these options though, as this thread just goes to show that everyone seems to want something slightly different. I personally think the three pockets are great as you can then find things easier.

I like the sleeves as they are wind proof and not as snug or sweaty as many of the arm warmers I’ve tried. They also stay put, unlike my armwarmers but this may just be me! I agree the zips could be better but I put a small length of 3mm climbing cord on them and can now get them off without issue. Getting them back on is still a PITA if on your own.

Maybe I’m so down on the newer one because it was advertised as the replacement but in my eyes is a retrograde step in almost every aspect (cut, feel against the skin, true-to-softshell-idea, etc). I do prefer the styling of the new one but that is about it! I also find that with a base layer on they are too hot for anything other than winter riding, rather spoiling the spring/autumn use that the original was perfect for.

Smell wise: I wash mine once a week with non-bio and have worn it 2-3 times a week for 6 years without a base layer and while not box fresh isn’t in the least offensive (several leagues below a 3 month old Helly I also own and have worn <10 times). I do hang it up in the garage between rides rather than put it in a box in the house though so that may stop the fug a bit.

Any one know where to get the zip replaced on the phantom II? Mines just fell apart after about 18 months and id hate to replce it just because of a broken zip.

Dry cleaners often do repairs.

http://www.imagescotland.com/scottishmountaingear-home.asp

I got my Phantom II from Wiggle in a sale for £72.00 around 14 months ago. I use it in the winter months and for this purpose it is spot on. I only ever wear a thin merino baselayer underneath it for cold conditions or a thicker icebreaker for very cold conditions. This does mean the removable sleeves have so far been a redundant feature, but overall I’m really pleased with it for the price.