All these advances take energy to supply them, and I would not deny that to my fellow human beings anywhere in the world
no but the finite supply of ever depleting resources will deny us all this. Surely we should act now rather than wait?
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Global warming! the mystery deepens
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no but the finite supply of ever depleting resources will deny us all this. Surely we should act now rather than wait?Posted 2 years ago # -
As oil becomes more scarce, it'll become more expensive, that's when we'll start to come up with some decent alternatives.
What else is running out?
Posted 2 years ago # -
How so?
WAKE UP!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8350629.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1581457.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4554221.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1860217.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4265295.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/6333279.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7243612.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5103290.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7040239.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/904461.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7239328.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4604627.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/4760707.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7563456.stmPosted 2 years ago # -
Ok, maybe I haven't been taking the outrage seriously enough, but it is somewhat ludicrous when you see people living luxury western lifestyles taking the high moral ground on the emissions caused by consumption.
How many of you folk having a go at me live a non emission lifestyle? Got a car? consume electricity? Tsk, tsk.
How about 15,000 climate scientists in one convention. Presumably if they really believe there is a problem they would have cycled there, because it would be hypocritical to fly there, wouldn't it?
rightplacerighttime - Member
...But now you are saying that climate scientists can't be right when they make predictions, because some other smart people created a model for predicting and pricing equities in a stock market and that was shown not to work very well?I have got that right haven't I?
That is what you just said?
What Mr Boyce said was large amounts of experts with high levels of academic qualifications, who are in consensus, who have access to massive amounts of computing power, and have unlimited budgets, can and do get it wrong. There's nothing new in that. (They can also be right, btw)If you truly believe we are responsible for climate change, stop consuming. Right now.
Here's a few suggestions:
Sell your carNo, scrap it, we don't want anyone using it again, do we?
Disconnect from the grid.
Walk/cycle to work.
No holidays overseas.
No man made fibres.
Stop buying stuff that needs to be transported.
And get rid of that mobile phone.Once you have done that I'll take you seriously.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Your point being? I see lots of news stories that I've seen before, and someone who, unable to make a cogent argument, is screaming rabidly at me (metaphorically speaking).
Sort of sums up the whole sorry state of the environmental movement really, borderline hysterical.
Posted 2 years ago # -
My point being that when I said
Unfortunatley a lot of our "choice" denies other people in the world even the option of a "simpler life"
I was talking about the people who are the subjects of these stories.
You did say
how so?
So I'm showing you how our "choices" limit other peoples "choices".
How stupid are you?
Posted 2 years ago # -
How do our choices cause these people's problems? Institutionalised corruption, inadequate regulation, and failure to account for externalities seems to be the major cause to me.
In answer to your last question, just because I disagree with you, it doesn't automatically make me stupid. Resorting to personal attacks does you, or your argument no favours.
Posted 2 years ago # -
epicyclo,
You're really making rather a lot of assumptions about me.
If you want me to I'll e-mail you with a list of the actions that I've taken to reduce my personal CO2 output, but I don't really want to get into a "my dad's bigger than your dad argument"
Did you hear me asking anyone to give up their car, or disconnect from the grid?
Heard of a straw-man argument?
Some choices are difficult.
Like your ridiculous assertion that unless climate change can be explained in a sentence then it isn't a valid problem, your new idea, that no one can have a valid view on climate change unless their CO2 output is zero, is equally silly - would you like everyone concerned about CO2 to hold their breath too?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Sorry, but if you can't see a link between our (western) consumption, and these peoples' problems, then you are (in the dictionary definition of the word) stupid.
Posted 2 years ago # -
So what have you given up to reduce your carbon footprint?
Just out of interest, what's your income as well?
Posted 2 years ago # -
rightplacerighttime - is it any coincidence that most of those problems seem to afflict areas which have undemocratic governments?
I guess I am stupid, you'll have to spell out the link for me between western consumption and those problems...
...although I all I see is you making personal attacks because the nasty man doesn't agree with you.
Posted 2 years ago # -
You are quite nasty aren't you?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Not really, just have a low tolerance of waffle.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Seems more like a compulsion to me.
Posted 2 years ago # -
As I said earlier, name calling does neither you, nor your position any favours.
Posted 2 years ago # -
rightplacerighttime - Member
epicyclo,
You're really making rather a lot of assumptions about me.Did you hear me asking anyone to give up their car, or disconnect from the grid?
You have totally convinced me that you believe that climate change is caused by human actions.
The only assumption I have made is that someone as dedicated as yourself would hold themselves to very high personal ethical standards, and as a result would not be party to causing any damaging emissions. Simple really.
And why aren't you asking anyone to give up their car, or disconnect from the grid? MTFU and demand all those around you follow your example and cease to emit.
The suggestions I made above would be a good start for them.
BTW talking about assumptions, I am not a goldfish.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Kramer said:
As oil becomes more scarce, it'll become more expensive, that's when we'll start to come up with some decent alternatives.
What else is running out?
Fish.
And the alternative is?
Posted 2 years ago # -
epicyclo,
MTFUYYSA
Posted 2 years ago # -
Other fish?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Fish.
And the alternative is?
Whales, there's loads of the f*ckers and they're dead smug, all they do is swim around and fart out of the top of their heads and everybody loves 'em. They've got it comming I tell ya!
Posted 2 years ago # -
Farmed fish?
Posted 2 years ago # -
tazzymtb - Member
Whales, there's loads of the f*ckers and they're dead smug, all they do is swim around and fart out of the top of their heads and everybody loves 'em. They've got it comming I tell ya!
They taste good too. The Japanese have an ongoing research programme. Many of their leading scientists are in consensus about this.Posted 2 years ago # -
epicyclo- has their menu had a peer review?
Posted 2 years ago # -
They are the experts, we have just got to take their word on it. Our palates are not refined enough to appreciate the full flavour.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Tazzy,
Surely that would be a pier review?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Kramer,
You ask a reasonable question "what else is running out?"
I give a reasonable answer "fish"
You have another go at showing me, and everyone else, that you really are stupid.
Posted 2 years ago # -
epicyclo,
A while back you said
I was hoping for a simple and reasonable answer to my questions that a simple but reasonable person would accept.
I manage to answer a question in one word, and apparently that's still not quite simple enough for you?
Posted 2 years ago # -
rightplacerighttime,
I was impressed by how little energy you used to condense the answer into an abbreviation. Alas, I failed to understand the latter part being alternately lazy, simple, or a goldfish...
I must commiserate that you have to deal with so many stupid people on this forum, it's amazing they can even write, let alone earn a living. Still it is a comfort to me to know that I have a peer group.
I envisage you pedalling your cycle powered generator to power a flickering screen, shivering because the power generated should be going to heating your leaky ethical home made of natural materials all found within walking distance, instead of having to waste it thumping your
religion* beliefs into the heads of so many idiots and goldfish. Indeed a prophet is without honour in his own country.It would be cruel of me to deprive you of your hot air in such weather, so just to provide you with some comfort in these disastrous times, I'm off to make a carbon free journey on my bike. I will dress lightly because maybe if I have faith, global warming will happen for me too.
* You said it was too complex to understand for us foolish and ignorant types, therefore if we are to accept it, it can only be on a basis rooted in faith. I think that's how religions work. Ignore the anomalies, and trust in god/Allah/Thor, and yes the priesthood is above reproach.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I meant the "fish" answer.
MTFUYYSA isn't a word.
Posted 2 years ago # -
And my answer - 'farmed fish' would suggest my alternative to the fish that are running out. We're only just starting to explore the potential of the sea for intensive farming to feed the world.
Posted 2 years ago # -
What do you think they feed farmed fish?
Which species of fish do you think can be farmed?
Which species of fish are currently farmed with no knock-on ecological problems?
Posted 2 years ago # -
+1 for prety much everything rightplace is saying though I cant be @rsed with them anymore
Epi you said
Assertions, consensus, complicated graphs etc don't do that job, they just confuse
and then
You said it was too complex to understand for us foolish and ignorant types
As said then if you dont understand best listen to someone who does. There is near universal acceptance* of global warming these days and doubters are generally at the margins of science.and why the religous references ?
*debate in science is a good thing as long as it is informed and has evidence and data and graphs and other confusing things to back it up.Invective is worthless.Posted 2 years ago # -
As said then if you dont understand best listen to someone who does. There is near universal acceptance* of global warming these days and doubters are generally at the margins of science.
and why the religous references ?
*debate in science is a good thing as long as it is informed and has evidence and data and graphs and other confusing things to back it up.Invective is worthless.
As mentioned before, there is a huge incentive in scientists who look at global warming to actually find it, and very little incentive in disproving it. A significant number of people find this disturbing, because it is not a situation that is conducive to conducting good science. As you admit yourself, the people who debate it are on the margins, probably because if you do debate it, that is where you find your career, no matter how good your science.
FWIW, this phenomenon is not limited to climate change, it is also occurring in particle physics, and has been happening in medicine for years.
The reference to religion is that there becomes a time when a theory ceases to be a theory, and starts to become dogma - sacred and unchallengeable, beyond debate. Some might say that this is what has happened with global warming.
There are parallels with the Millenium Bug here...
Posted 2 years ago # -
Kramer - Member
....There are parallels with the Millenium Bug here...I was excoriated for being an unbeliever in that too
Posted 2 years ago # -
there is a huge incentive in scientists who look at global warming to actually find it, and very little incentive in disproving it.
People on your side of the argument keep saying this, but I really don't get it.
What are the incentives to scientists for proving global warming?
Posted 2 years ago #
Topic Closed
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