Viewing 36 posts - 1 through 36 (of 36 total)
  • German companies listing the management team
  • awh
    Free Member

    I’ve ordered a few things recently from German bike shops and noticed they list the company chairman, the board etc. on the website, in catalogues, in the email footer. So have the courier companies. Is this a German legal requirement? Would it improve UK companies if they did it too? I.e. we’d have a name at the top to complain to if we’ve experienced poor service.

    alpin
    Free Member

    Germans are wierd…

    The GF used to work for a small distribution company. In their catalogue (only available to business clients) they had two two-page spreads introducing everyone…. From the MD to the two 17 year old lads who pushed pallets around a warehouse.

    I occasionally work up near BMW… So many of the workers there walk around wearing their company fleece/jacket with their names embroidered on… Very twee.

    AD
    Full Member

    I work for a UK manufacturing company – most us wander round with shirts with our names embroidered on… I’ve never thought of it as twee before. Thanks for the insight 🙂

    Mikkel
    Free Member

    I always thought it was quite handy having my name on the jacket (this was in Denmark) made things easier when there was over 500 people with the same jacket.

    slowoldgit
    Free Member

    That name thing was normal in the US Co I worked for. It was handy when you joined a new crew or a strange ship, I’m embarrassingly slow at learning names otherwise.

    v8ninety
    Full Member

    I read what Alpin wrote as wandering around out of work hours with personalised BMW jackets on. (Because wandering around at work with work clothes on isn’t twee, it’s kinda normal) But I could be wrong. Care to enlighten us Alpin?

    awh
    Free Member

    Aren’t there tax rules that mean clothing with the company name on can easily be proven to be work wear so you don’t have to pay VAT?

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Of the Germans I worked with it was easy to tell them apart. It was the one who looked like Michael Schumacher or the one who looked like Lieutenant Gruber from ‘Allo Allo

    alpin
    Free Member

    Haha…. Certainly, mols. 🙂

    I don’t work there, just nearby.

    But yeah, around their workplace, on their way to the kebab, in the train, but also in the beer gardens in the English Garden in the summer and such…

    bencooper
    Free Member

    All the German companies I deal with do this. I think it’s sweet. And it makes everyone feel like an important part of the company I think.

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    Would it improve UK companies if they did it too? I.e. we’d have a name at the top to complain to if we’ve experienced poor service.

    It would probably make you feel better as your email dropped into another filtered email account to be read by the same guy who does the normal complaints. Service has nothing to do with nationality or things like that it’s about how a company works, is led and how they train and treat their staff.

    LeeW
    Full Member

    I remember reading about engineers from RR wearing their corporate wear outside of work almost relentlessly because they were that proud of working for them.

    batfink
    Free Member

    Listing the CEO/chairman (Geschäftsführung) at the bottom of an email is a legal requirement in Germany, along with their corporation number.

    growinglad
    Free Member

    Previous Swiss company I worked for gave us Mammut Jackets which mentioned what company we worked for and had a funky outline of Switzerland on the breast section. Granted I wouldn’t wear it on a night out, but for pottering around the shops on a Saturday, no worries. Although I would have drawn the line if it had my name on it.

    Remember bumping into a bloke out in the middle of no-where once who must have worked for one of the regional offices, with the same Jacket, stopped and said hello.

    I hope VW didn’t have too much printer stationary….must have been a bugger re-printing everything after smogagate.

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    I did my masters dissertation on the differences between different forms of capitalism and their effect on company behaviour.

    The German model of capitalism, known as ‘the alliance model’ is vastly different to the one we have here and in the US, known as the Anglo Saxon model.

    These differences are the result of differences in the background agencies (things like the legal system, the educational system, the way that capital is allocated through the financial system, the structure of ownership and the degree of liquidity in a market, culture and, notably, the role of the unions).

    I don’t know if the phenomenon you describe is a legal requirement, but it is certainly reflective of the far greater degree of commitment that exists between German companies and their employees. That commitment means that many people still have a job for life in Germany; the guys building the VW Golf now are the same ones who built it 25 years ago. What they don’t know about how to refine a manufacturing process is thus not worth worrying about (and is the reason why the Germans build very good cars and we don’t).

    The reasons why there is this greater commitment are numerous but they are underpinned by the employment laws which state you cannot just unilaterally make someone redundant. You can do it, but it’s a very onerous business; you have to have the agreement of the works council and you then have to continue paying that persons salary until such times as they find a new job to move to. That not only increases commitment from the employer to employee, but also the reverse and you very often see negotiations with unions being based on mutual cooperation rather than being adversarial. A good example was seen about seven years ago when the unions agreed with VW that they would increase the working hour week in return for VW guaranteeing that there would be no moves to try and make redundancies in the future.

    The key point is that this commitment between employee and employer is an emergent property; it’s not something you can directly legislate for, you have to create the environment in which it happens because that’s the most efficient and obvious was to do things. Changing the law wouldn’t be enough because while the laws governing employment are a part of the puzzle, there is a lot else going on that also contributes and reinforces the system. Companies in Germany are not typically financed through the stock market for example. They are financed through large banks and the in many instances, it is the federal state who owns maybe 30% of the company. You can’t just sell your stock if things go wrong so this forces companies to take a much more long term approach to business unlike our quarter by quarter earnings report approach.

    I could go into the virtues of our system as well but that would be another thesis here. Hope this one was of interest; happy to share some more on the subject if you’re interested.

    Pook
    Full Member

    I remember reading about engineers from RR wearing their corporate wear outside of work almost relentlessly because they were that proud of working for them.

    I work from home on Fridays. A few months back. My neighbour popped round to be greeted by me unknowingly wearing my RR T-shirt, it being the first I grabbed from the drawer. Cue much piss taking.

    I suspect most engineers at RR (and I know a few) only have two shirts. They only know which one they wore yesterday because its got the biros in the pocket.

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    Rolls Royce staff around Derby have no problem with their named shirts. Most of them seem to be pretty proud to work there still.

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    German companies are very hierarchical and much more fomal than we are used to here. Anyone in a top management position would want you to know how senior they are. I’ve worked for 3 German Banks.

    As a follow up to @geetee Germans would generally expect to be long term employees, as such they take few business risks and would not expect to be fired even if lacking competence, moved to a different role perhaps but not fired.

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    they take few business risks

    Yes this is very true. It is also true because of the lack of liquidity in the market and because of the ownership structure.

    Because the owners tend to own a large chunk of the business, they also usually have board representation and thus direct control of the business.

    Compare that to a UK/US company listed on the stockmarket where it is you and I who own it through disintermediated shareholdings in things like pension funds via the large asset management businesses, which might own no more than 5% at most and so have no day to day management control.

    The direct shareholders in that situation rarely get involved (although there has been a trend of late for activist shareholders like Hermes to start pressuring the companies they own).

    If you own 40% of a company and you are part of the management team, you don’t tend to be too willing to take big risks with your decisions (because if it starts to go wrong, you can’t just sell your stake).

    The downside to that lack of risk taking is a lack of radical innovation. Process refinement becomes very good (hence why they are so good at manufacturing things as are the Japanese – Japan has a similar model with notable differences but a very similar outcome). BUt they don’t tend to ‘invent’ things. That happens here and in the US (and then ze Germans take that radical innovation and refine the hell out of it!)

    footflaps
    Full Member

    Loads of companies list the mgmt team on their website, including the one I work for.

    woody74
    Full Member

    geetee1972 – Would be interested to read your dissertation. Any chance of a link.

    Also how do you do the referencing of another comment as Pook has done?

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    geetee1972 – Would be interested to read your dissertation. Any chance of a link.

    Are you sure? I’ll be more specific by saying that I used what is a well established theory (the idea of ‘Divergent Capitalism’) to try and explain why in 2003, the Polish economy was doing so badly when by comparisson, the other former Soviet controlled economies of Czech Republic and Hungary were doing so well.

    It’s pretty dry and quite wordy but I can happily send you a copy though. My email address is in my profile, drop me a line and I will send it over.

    Also how do you do the referencing of another comment as Pook has done?

    That’s easy. In the dialogue box above the window in which you type your comments, you’ll see a line of commands. To quote a previous comment, simply click ‘Quote’ then paste or type the comments you want to reference, then click ‘Quote’ again.

    You’ll end up with the word ‘quote’ at the start and end, enclosed in parenthesis, and with the second ‘quote’ being preceeded by a backslash (which tells the web page that that’s where the quote ends.

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    Loads of companies list the mgmt team on their website, including the one I work for.

    Yep, my mid-sized Scottish company lists the board and senior customer-facing staff on the website.

    Seen a few UK companies put it in brochures and catalogues too.

    Never seen it in an email footer though – that’s bizarre.

    andytherocketeer
    Full Member

    As above, it’s German law (presumably federal law).
    For some reason I thought there was an EU law (well directive) too, but could be wrong. Either way, Germany does formality and would have been compliant anyway, but I had a feeling something was made more formal a few years back. UK probably enacted something less strict that just says that contact details must be on all correspondence.

    Websites are similar. You’ll find an “AGB” (terms+conditions) prominently displayed on every German site, even simple personal ones, and even a simple blog in blogspot. Even if it’s not law, German bloggers like formality.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    UK probably enacted something less strict that just says that contact details must be on all correspondence.

    You are just required to list an offshore tax haven, with the words ‘**** you peasants’ next to it..

    swedishmatt
    Free Member

    Geetee1972 thanks, interesting post!

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    with the words ‘**** you peasants’ next to it

    Whever they end up paying their taxes, these big companies are typically owned by the peasants anyway through pension funds.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    GT that is really interesting. I’ve often mused on the differences between traditional working stereotypes in different countries. I once worked with a German, who was very stereotypically German in that he showed meticulous attention to detail but ultimately struggled to come up with creative solutions. And I was the opposite. Our respective performances seemed to mirror the reputations of our national car industries…

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    GT that is really interesting.

    I’m glad you think so! I always thought it fascinating but then I am a self confessed geek.
    In addition to being driven by the ‘next big thing’, a big part of the US/UK’s capability for radical innovation (rather than process innovation) is driven, ironcically, by precisely our lack of commitment between employer and employee.

    When you can hire and fire at will and when there is as a consequence no incentive to loyalty, people tend to move jobs much more readily (in the UK and US, the average man changes jobs once every three years and the average women once every five years, which incidentally helps to explain the 9% difference in like for like earnings between men and women).

    It’s this movement of talent that gives rise to innovation because people take what they learnt in one company and apply it in a radically new way in another. It’s the work place equivalent of cross polination giving rise to new species.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    I would also say that it helps startup companies get a good set of skills and get a good creative buzz going.

    Another thing might be the property market. In Germany estate agents fees were outrageously expensive, and people don’t move around as much. Those British youngsters moving jobs can also move to new locations pretty easily for those exciting jobs.

    ourmaninthenorth
    Full Member

    UK probably enacted something less strict that just says that contact details must be on all correspondence.

    There’s existing law (England and Wales at least – we don’t have UK law) about including certain corporate informaiton on letters, emails & websites. You can obviously get director info from Companies House.

    But generally you will only find AIM and full list companies provide management information (it’s a reporting requirement).

    @ geetee – very interesting. I had a vague understanding of the German approach. Interesting that you’ve examined it more deeply.

    I know my experience of dealing with German businesses is like Jambalaya’s – very hierarchical and favour logic over gut feel.

    You’re right about Japanese businesses being very process driven – projects take forever to plan, but almost always run on time and to budget. Where this falls down is not having the UK/US ability to think dynamically when problems arise. As much as I loath process, I think UK businesses could improve productivity with a bit more focus on careful planning – chaos is only fund for so long..!

    molgrips
    Free Member

    I also found the Germans extremely conservative and averse to dynamic problem solving.

    brassneck
    Full Member

    All the Germans in our company do this (in sigs for example), I believe it’s a requirement. I got quizzed about it being missing once but had the get out of being in a UK legal entity.

    I don’t know if the phenomenon you describe is a legal requirement, but it is certainly reflective of the far greater degree of commitment that exists between German companies and their employees. That commitment means that many people still have a job for life in Germany

    The anecdote here is that in the UK you choose a career, in Germany (and Belgium from experience) you choose your company. I quite like that attitude – there is always opportunity to move around if you just run out of steam in your career path, without a major upheaval.

    I also found the Germans extremely conservative and averse to dynamic problem solving.

    There’s truth in this – it translates into over engineering the shit out of every solution so that there are no problems to solve!

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Where I worked, it meant holding onto crap and over engineered old solutions even though it cost a ton of money because I’d always been done that way.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    Where I worked, it meant holding onto crap and over engineered old solutions even though it cost a ton of money because I’d always been done that way.

    That description applies to 95% of the Telecoms multinationals I work with! They just do stuff one way because they’ve always done so and no one ever asks ‘is it the best way’! Trying to get them to do stuff more efficiently takes a lot of effort!

    molgrips
    Free Member

    I was on a team of six full time maintaining a piece of software they could have downloaded for free from the internet.

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