Singletrack Mountain Bike Magazine

• Overview
• Bike Forum
• Chat Forum
• For Sale
• Wanted
• Forum Help
• Classified Rules

Chat Forum

1. dooge - Member

   Hey all,

   Im sorry if these types of threads have been exhausted with the recession killing employment in the last year but I need to vent!

   I am feeling incredibly frustrated at the moment. I will initially say I am very impatient, quite motivated but also wary and I think too much.

   I am a graduate from a wholly un-academic photography degree, completing this year just gone. I knew with the recession it was going to be hard to find myself a career rather than just a job, but I cant believe how little there is. I feel completely under skilled, pretty useless and regretting my ill researched jump into photography as a degree. Searching job website's just brings up the same things, and nothing I feel like I could do or would get considered for.

   Currently, I am working at Jessops on a pro-rata 24 hour a week contract getting paid a miserable £6.01, but I am getting enough hours to slowly pay off the overdraft. I have mates that earn more by stacking shelfs. Needless to say, I do feel a bit under appreciated at work, along with alot of other people on this forum I am sure.

   I have experience in general labouring, bicycle mechanics, selling electricals and customer sales based jobs for the last 7 years, and I am not afraid to get my hands dirty. Recently, as career considerations I have looked at the police force, and would be happy to become a special constable and give up my lacklustre free time to gain experience if there was positions being advertised. I have also considered applying for a trainee mortgage advisor or financial advisor, just because I feel I have brilliant people skills, though I am not mathmatically minded whatsoever and have no experience in the banking/finance industry.

   I am not against moving away from Devon, and would love to give a shot at getting to Bristol but its having the time. Currently I cant have any time off until after christmas, and I think I might have gone insane by then.

   My frustration is ruining my interest in various things including food, seeing friends and riding my two bikes despite the fact Ive moved back home with the parents which is ten mins drive from Chipshop Quarry and Gawton. I have been on my DH bike once in 2 months, which depresses me anyway!

   Sorry to rant, and I am sure there is plenty in this position but I needed to get it off my chest. Any suggestions?

   Posted 2 years ago #
2. newro97 - Member

   im in the same boat, degree that means naff all living in bristol doing a job i hate for less money than i was earning before uni, hoping to join the police. dont have any thing positive to say really just adding to the rant! keep at it and hope for the best not much else to do, bar getting all pro active....

   Posted 2 years ago #
3. ex-pat - Member

   Did you have a particular career in mind when you started your degree?
   If so, some web research into the companies that do it wouldn't hurt, and some will have job pages (not everyone advertises on job sites).
   Personally I would also be writing to those companies and waxing on about what I could do for them - and be prepared to just meet to have coffee with some HR person. Not always fruitful, but you never know. For me, it's opened doors and subsequently I've turned down offers.
   If nothing else it'll get you doing stuff work related...

   Posted 2 years ago #
4. allyharp - Member

   How about trying to get into the Police as a photographer? They have plenty who go around recording evidence at crime scenes, which sounds exciting to me!

   Or alternatively enter as a constable (with the possibility of shifting into photography later). The money is really good and from what I hear people with degrees tend to advance further than those without.

   Posted 2 years ago #
5. Stoner - Member

   sorry to hear your difficulties - its always a shame to hear of training and talent going to waste.

   Unfortunately higher education is one of those odd markets where the lag between supply and demand decisions is so great that graduates in "vocational" courses are rarely being supplied at the right rate on graduation date.

   Witness the boom in forensic science undergraduates - on the back of cool TV programmes, UK Polys have been flooding the market with Forensic Science degree places that the buyers dont want or need - doesnt matter to the Poly, they get their finds regardless of the relevance of the grads they churn out. There were two courses in the early 90s, and now there are 285. There's only 1,300 scientists employed by the government at the moment, but there's 1,600 undergrads last year alone! Madness.

   The daft government promise to get so many more people though the traditional university system is just a phoney exercise - wasting educational opportunities and scarce budgets on deferring youth unemployment and aiming for meaningless targets in volumes of qualifications, not relevance and quality. Apprenticeships, vocational diplomas and corporate sponsorship with state support would have been a far more useful allocation of state funds.

   To be a graduate is not enough these days. Its sad to see that it is still those that graduate in subjects traditionally perceived to be challenging (mainly non-vocational ones at that) that stand the best chances of getting a career off to a flying start. So many other graduates will have wasted their valuable higher education years on useless subjects or poor quality teaching.

   Im not necessarily saying it is such in your case, dooge, but I would bear it in mind when considering how to get your career moving forwards now.

   Posted 2 years ago #
6. higgo - Member

   1) If you love photography, get out of Jessops
   2) re the big move from Devon to Bristol, why not set your sights a bit further and head for Singapore, San Fransisco or Montreal?

   Posted 2 years ago #
7. Tijuana Taxi - Member

   Well said Stoner and totally agree with everything you mentioned

   My daughter is in her first year of University and the choice of subjects was bewildering and also the relative lack of academic success that was needed to enrol for many of them

   How many Egyptologists can they want, I just see this further education as a way of keeping the jobless totals down and boosting the income to the many university towns and cities
   Just a shame nobody has considered the youngsters in all of this

   My kid finally went for an Optometry degree, she had been thinking about that for a while and although her main subject is maths, she thought that it was a wiser choice for future employment

   Even that is over populated with grduates in places like London, but many small towns are short of Optometrists, so hopefully all will be well.

   Sorry to hear the OP has problems, but maybe try and start your own photo business in your spare time, daresay that is over subscribed too though.
   How about camera servicing, good many dirty sensors out there and the big companies turnaround times are dreadful

   Posted 2 years ago #
8. Capt. Kronos - Member

   Tell me about it - I am an archaeologist!

   Well, was - I was lucky to come out of uni in the late 90's when the economy was booming so fell into IT. Had a career in that for a few years, did a masters in my spare time in IT... realised I was wasting my life so left to become an engineer (and did another MSc in Environmental stuff which is loosely what I work in).

   Photography is a tricky one though - there isn't much work in it (I do it part time too, it's a bastard! In the last couple of years I have made a few decent sales, but alas the companies that put the big orders in then went bust before paying!). Some of the soul destroying shopping centre portrait bods may take folk on, especially on the run up to Christmas, but that isn't really much better than stacking shelves IMO (formulaic pose against white backdrop... slightly high key - all look the same).

   The Police route is a good option - I know a couple of very, very good photographers who wound up working in photography with them.

   Beyond that - no idea. But definitely spread your search further. If I was a graduate again and had no ties I would probably be looking abroad. Something I always wanted to do, but life kind of got in the way before I had the chance.

   Good luck!

   Posted 2 years ago #
9. iDave - Member

   pretty poor rant. detected little anger and the direction of the rant was unclear. you, the system or god/buddha/cowell?

   I understand your frustration, but only you can take steps to get out of the hole. you should start doing the things you would do if you didn't feel pissed off with life. don't wait until you feel better - there is a link. we all get the life we choose one way or another. you chose jessops, mates chose shelf stacking. like higs said, there's a big world out there.. go see it

   Posted 2 years ago #
10. mastiles_fanylion - Member

    Do you actually want a career in photography then?

    Posted 2 years ago #
11. stumpy01 - Member

    One thing you could do, if nothing more than a little bit of an ego boost that might bring in a little unexpected cash is to set-up your own website showcasing your photo's and selling them online.

    I have just signed up to Photium to do just that - they offer a 30day trial and so far it all seems really good - just need to find more time on it.
    There's also Clikpic (not a spelling mistake) and they are cheaper per annum to get something set-up.

    Hope something comes along soon. As well as looking down the traditional routes to a job - agency, job centre, local paper etc. have you spoken to friends of the family, uni mates etc. and perhaps get a foot in the door somewhere?

    Posted 2 years ago #
12. mastiles_fanylion - Member

    Or sell rights to you shots to someone like iStock.com?

    Posted 2 years ago #
13. djglover - Member

    I have sod all qualifications. When I was your age I took a job in a call centre with an Energy firm, not exactly my dream job. But with overtime and sales bonuses I could take home 16-17K a year. Not too bad in 1997.

    Anyway, I stuck with it and now I am in a senior job working on the rollout of smart metering technology, probably the biggest revolution in the industry since the conversion to North Sea gas, its great

    I'm not trying to show off, just suggesting you might want to decide weather you want to persue your dream job or find something not too sould destroying and commit to it?

    Posted 2 years ago #
14. IanMunro - Member

    How many Egyptologists can they want, I just see this further education as a way of keeping the jobless totals down and boosting the income to the many university towns and cities

    I agree with a lot of what stoner also said. The problem currently is one of responding to what differing markets (students and employers) think they want and need.
    Alas a large group of students are drawn towards these Eyptian/CSI/Surf/Meja management courses (irrespective of what the real job prospects are) and if uni's are meant to respond to customer's wishes then they're going to carry on offering such courses, unless we have state managed selection of subjects, or a radical shift in what a degree is - both of which would bold decisions for any political party.
    Not too sure what the solution is.

    Posted 2 years ago #
15. Stoner - Member

    perhaps some employability stats being issued with each course prospectus would be of use.

    Something that gave an indication of course graduates average time to full employment, field of role, location of employment etc.

    Then maybe potential undergrads could use a bit of common sense about the potential given courses have.

    A forensic "scientist" isnt a scientist and has woeful transferability of skills. A chemist on the other hand could easily become a forensic scientist and also 1 of thousands of any other job.

    Posted 2 years ago #
16. HTTP404 - Member

    Another thumbs up to Stoner.

    The drive to get students into Higher Education has driven down the quality and upped the mediocrity of graduates. A degree is no longer seen as anything special. And like Stoner says, there are question marks I would raise over some degree subjects taken.

    Job vacancies are down. And competition for these jobs will be fierce. That's no surprise in the current economic climate.

    You need to decide what you want to do (professionally) as well. Seems like you're clutching at straws a bit. In the meanwhile, you should be looking at jobs that can somehow give you some relevant experience onto your CV (shelf stacking is not an option).

    A chemist the other hand could easily become a forensic scientist and also 1 of thousands of any other job.

    Well, I ended up as programmer / developer.

    Posted 2 years ago #
17. IanMunro - Member

    Indeed, I guess the problem with stats is you're not going to have any when offering a new course, for which there maybe genuine employer demand, and students may see such a course as a more risky option.
    A friend of mine made that exact same mistake, signed up for forensic science and realised it was drivel, but had the good sense to transfer to chemisty, followed by a masters, and now doing a phd at UCL.

    Posted 2 years ago #
18. Stoner - Member

    maybe genuine employer demand,

    which ought to be backed by the employers offering training placements, sandwich placements, grants and golden hellos. In the absence of stats on a new course, I reckon that would send out an alternative clear message on employability.

    Posted 2 years ago #
19. IanMunro - Member

    It's an interesting thought, but that's quite a commitment that employers would have to make to offer several years in advance of getting the goods so to speak. I'd imagine most would baulk at it and it would require further expense to administer.

    Posted 2 years ago #
20. joemarshall - Member

    My kid finally went for an Optometry degree, she had been thinking about that for a while and although her main subject is maths, she thought that it was a wiser choice for future employment
    

    That's a crazy reason to make that choice. It might be an interesting thing to do (in which case well worth choosing as a degree for purely that reason), but maths is surely a way better choice from employment terms - if you've got a maths degree from a good university there are thousands of jobs you can do, ex-maths people I know are doing engineering, science, computer programming, insurance, banking, research, teaching, experimental biology, one of them even did a medical conversion afterwards and is now a doctor, maths is a degree with access to thousands of different jobs, whereas a degree in optometrics is going to qualify you for a few variations on basically one job, which will probably be very competitive, if there are loads of graduates out there with such a specialised degree.

    How many Egyptologists can they want

    You (and lots of the other people posting on here) are missing the point of a degree - a degree isn't just training for a single job, particularly things like egyptology / history and stuff like that. It's training in analytical skills that could be useful for many jobs. I've known a few people with history, geography, English degrees etc. and whilst they haven't found jobs anywhere near as easy to get as people I know with maths or computer science degrees, they've all ended up getting jobs, often in things only slightly related to their original field, but which use some of the skills that they developed during their degree work.

    Joe

    Posted 2 years ago #
21. joemarshall - Member

    offering a new course, for which there maybe genuine employer demand

    If employers want job training, then they should pay for training. I know typical employer practice in this country is to totally avoid spending any money on training or development of staff, hence the way everyone I know (in computer programming) works at a company for 3 years or so, then moves on to a new job, rather than developing their career in a single job over several years.

    If employers really want to support the creation of a new and useful academic subject, they should fund research into it, or develop labs or departments doing it. For example, with Computer Science a lot of the most interesting early research work was done by corporate research and development labs, as well as in physics / maths type departments at universities, a lot of work was funded with the help of external partners such as companies and the military. What has developed now is a subject that is a proper university subject, where people learn skills that are applicable to a wide range of areas of employment, rather than a pointlessly overspecialised thing that would have happened if they'd have let employers design and write the university courses straight off (anyone who has done CCNA / MCSE certificates etc. knows what that would look like, and what a waste of time it would be).

    Joe

    Posted 2 years ago #
22. HTTP404 - Member

    a degree isn't just training for a single job, particularly things like egyptology / history and stuff like that. It's training in analytical skills that could be useful for many jobs.

    Oh, contraire.

    Posted 2 years ago #
23. IanMunro - Member

    This is all great stuff in principle, but it does require a certain size of company to make it work. SME's just don't have those sort of resources.
    Personally I think a simple rule to apply is if that if the new degree subject name consists of more than one word it should be treated with suspicion

    Posted 2 years ago #
24. Stoner - Member

    You (and lots of the other people posting on here) are missing the point of a degree

    I made a very clear distinction between vocational and non-vocational subjects.

    Most vocational courses are based on content not method, unlike non-vocational studies such as Maths, Physics or English where analysis is the emphasis. Higher quality institutions teach non-V very well and produce in demand graduates with wide appeal. Poorer quality institutions major in "vocational" style content, poorly taught and with little use outside of the taught field, if not within it too.

    (anyone who has done CCNA / MCSE certificates etc. knows what that would look like, and what a waste of time it would be).

    hmmm. My brother dropped out of IT @ York in the late 90s because of a woeful syllabus. He then went on to study MCPs and complete his MCSE, sponsored and employed by Sage and another software house at the time, and is now a very successful and talented SQL writer.

    Posted 2 years ago #
25. Tijuana Taxi - Member

    My kid finally went for an Optometry degree, she had been thinking about that for a while and although her main subject is maths, she thought that it was a wiser choice for future employment

    As I said she had been thinking about it for a while, so she obviously found it interesting (and still is)
    Not everyone wants high powered pressured jobs and some just want a steady living in a nice location with some leisure time.

    whereas a degree in optometrics is going to qualify you for a few variations on basically one job

    
    or

    a degree isn't just training for a single job

    Slight contradiction there methinks although I left school with five o levels and did an apprenticeship so perhaps I'm not sufficiently educated to comment on such topics

    Posted 2 years ago #
26. dooge - Member

    Basically Photography was my second shot at a degree. I had miserabally and slowly completed 2 years of Business Studies but found out I failed 3 modules. Parent pressure and lack of direction/knowing what I wanted didnt help me at all.

    Stoner, I agree with you all too much now Ive done 5 years of the system. Its a shame its like that. As I said, I am not afraid of hard work, and approaching local agency's and photographers down here has definately proved fruitless, even for non paid doing it to look good on the cv work.

    Forensic photography and forensics as a whole was something Ive heavily researched, both in uni and out. It appealed to me wholly, but to be told by forensic scientists and a MET forensic specialist in photography that I wont get anywhere in forensics without a related degree, and even then there slim pickings was an eye opener. Even my University were giving me stuff that now, is far outdated. Only big police forces have specialist photographic units now, and forensic works are now generally trained Scene Of Crime Officers. Digital cameras can do it all, so why get a specialist?

    I have looked elsewhere, and considered going for uni jobs as technicians, approaching opticians, local studios and photographers, applying for factory work and even becoming a trainee financial advisor. Im rubbish at maths but good with people!

    Stumpy, Ill give it a looksie.

    Mastiles, Yes and no. Ive never been attracted to the freelance side of it, and that hasent changed. too much competition, and far too little work.

    Posted 2 years ago #

RSS feed for this topic

Topic Closed

This topic has been closed to new replies.