Thoughts anyone?

Doing a 6h-ish run in May. I did a 20 miler the other week with a mate and died a bit on hills last 2 or 3 miles. Apart from being a whole lot fitter than me, she was carrying next to nothing. I had a bumbag with roughly what I’d take on the day …but it got me thinking about how little I can take and get weight down.

So, trying to avoid a camelbak, and using a small bottle and fairly frequent water stops… is there such a thing as a nuun-like tablet that’ll give me energy, rather than just an electrolyte balance?

I can stomach gels if I have to, but don’t want to rely on them for all my calories. My new secret weapon is hot cross buns chopped into quarters. I’ll pop a few jelly babies too. But interested in the drink thing.

Where do you get your energy?

Your digestive system needs to be trained. I’d suggest gels and a few small bottles of energy drink in a race belt. use 2:1 glucose fructose, 90g per hour. You should also try not to rely on carb burning early on or you have to rely on them throughout. TBH it’s better to have the weight of carrying the right fuel than run light and die a death. Have a look at the Inov8 race belt things.

Also if you have to walk do it for at least 8 mins or so, you get a much better recovery than a few hundred m here and there and it makes for faster progress overall.

Thanks.

“You should also try not to rely on carb burning early on or you have to rely on them throughout.”

Can you add any more to this? How can you avoid carb burning early on?

Won’t be drastically changing anything, I’ve been trying various things in training, but always interested in any new ideas. Except for listening to my mate that did 15h entirely on Kendal Mint Cake 🙂

Not planning on walking, other than one short steep stretch and maybe another longer one.

If you take simple carbs just before or in the first hour or so, it’s tricky to get much fuel contribution from fat, so you end up needing to get 90g of carbs per hour in an easily digestible form. How far are you hoping to run in 6 hours? If you struggled on the last few miles of a 20 miler, you may well be walking for some of it?

Depends on the Ultra! If there’s no feed stations, I run mainly on gels interspersed with jelly babies, dried mango and some savoury stuff like mini babybel and pepperami. If there are decent feed stations, carry the same stuff but in smaller quantities and eat whatever they’ve got at the stops.

I work on the basis of eating something every 45mins, doesn’t matter what. Which, when you’re talking about 23hrs round the Pyrenees, can be both a) quite a lot of food, and b) a darn sight less than you’d think.

No real science behind my suggestions but I like to mix in regular-ish savoury foods in addition to the sweet and energy stuff, especially on even even longer events. Takes a while and a bit of persisting to get your stomach used to them though.

Some of the things that work for me are crushed up crisps, peperami, sandwiches, baby bell etc. I can eat must stuff on the go nowadays without stomach problems. Means I can eat whatever at aid stations if there’s anything going. +1 idave on going with plenty to get you through it though.

I’ve used quartered scotch eggs and pork pie before, the main thing is that you must get used to eating and running before the event.

+1 on variety

But make sure that dried fruit agrees with you as I have made that mistake before and stomach cramps at 40m are no joke.

Malt loaf, jelly babies, nuts and best by a mile KENDAL MINT CAKE!!

Nothing wrong with run/walk strategy with fast walk used to take some fuel on board. Good for energy and for motivation!!

Aldi, from Thursday 19th:

34, plus a bit of climbing. Not too worried about the 20 miler. Pacing, didn’t drink enough. Didn’t die, just got dragged along a bit. I’ve not done enough overall, and will definitely be bodging it, but I’m in about the same shape as last year …when I hadn’t done enough.

“If you take simple carbs just before or in the first hour or so, it’s tricky to get much fuel contribution from fat”

Hadn’t heard that, I probably wouldn’t eat anything before about 45′ anyway. Too early?

Often run before breakfast up to a couple of hours. Recently I’ve been having breakfast, to get used to digesting on the move.

Cheers Jamie – that will keep me going for a while and Romney’s is my favourite!

I agree with the info above.
Gels are good but take a variety (that you are used too). I once made the mistake of taking lots of the same flavour. After a few hours they became an endurance too. Dates are good too as a little energy boost. I run with them and some mixed nuts and fruits, maybe some salted. Savoury options are good too but nothing too dry. I was once given something a bit like a dry croissant 80km into a race and it was very hard to swallow.
Treats are good too, nothing about energy just something you really like if you are feeling a little low.

Good luck with your run.

Anyone used Gu Chomps? http://www.guenergy.co.uk/products/gu-chomps
Tri/ultra bloke in Royles recommended them. A bit like a high tech jelly baby/chewable gel. 180 kCals a packet.

Not tried ’em but have heard of them from Americans at a few races, I think Gu as a brand is quite big there.

They sound very much like Cliff Shot blocks (also american I think) but better availability in the UK than GU. They’re just like a slightly softer version of old fashioned jelly blocks, tbh not far off the consistency of jelly babies but 4 times the price for what I’m not sure.

FWIW Chomps worked well I thought. Used them on a 4h run yesterday. When I’d normally expect to be digging in a bit from 2 and a bit hours on, I was still feeling pretty fresh.

Suffered in the last hour, but I’m pretty sure that was water. Didn’t drink enough (kind of on purpose this time). When I put the whole thing together and eat and drink properly I’ll be flying. Well, trudging quickly.

idave
If were planning on racing my bike every couple of weeks or so during the summer, what training would you recommend 😉

Both ZipVit and Sponser produce very good race nutrition, and both do a sample pack for a tenner that will allow you to test their stuff in a training environment before committing to one for a race.

+1 fir zipvit, very easy on the stomach. SIS is good too although I guess it is a personal thing. I never got on with high five.

Did a 100 mile ride yesterday, a few things learnt.

1) 100 miles is do-able with no training (I’m easily in single digits for the number of double digit MTB rides this year and the longest road rides probably 30 miles? And hadn’t ridden for 2 weeks previously!).
2) Big climbs aren’t as bad as you’d imagine, even after 90 miles and faced with a yet another 1in4 that goes on for a kilometre (the Yorkshire moors was not a good decision for a century with no training!) its just left foot/right foot to the top. Although I did start to wonder what that noise was halfway up (sounded like someone swearing and crying) then realised it was me!
3) Jelly babies are not good fuel, they give a quick boost on short rides, but after 6 hours it was a balancing act between stomach cramp and energy.

iDave is probably right, I went for sugary food from the off and really suffered 6 hours in, next time I’ll try something else. What do you recommend for none carb energy? Surly fat’s not useful (got plenty of that already :P) so protein based energy food, whey protein in the bottles and beef jerky in the pockets?

None carb energy is surely fat? And you probably have plenty of that… 🙂

I’d say nothing, just water, then after an hour and a half a little simple carbs ie weaker energy drink or the odd gel or bar. Bars tend to be lower GI but still carb rich. You do need SOME carbs, after all.

The harder it is to digest, the more energy your stomach will require (afaik) so the less available for your legs. Or more likely, the less your stomach will process it and it’ll just sit there.

Done it. 3 gels, bit of cake or cookie every checkpoint (roughly 5-6 miles). Few chomps and a couple of jelly babies between.

Drank 2 cups at each of the 5 checkpoints and bits of nuun from a bottle. As predicted I didn’t want to stop and get the bottle out of the bumbag, so only used on a few forced occasions on hills. Less drink more often would have been better I think. Actually walked a bit more than last year and still knocked off a decent amount of the time, in heavier conditions (mud, wind). Physically struggled about 28 miles in – maybe an hour further than I’d trained, so not a great surprise.

Lessons learnt: still looking for my ideal nutrition mix.

Interesting note: stopped to help a guy who’d sugar crashed utterly about 20 miles in. Called for backup etc. Checked at the end and he was on his way to finishing – no way I’d predict him finishing like that, the state he was in. Impressive bounce back.

Cool!
What was the event?

Sandstone Trail, in the vertiginous Cheshire Plains. Do you want me to save you an entry next year?

save me an entry too.
are you doing this?

http://www.tr24.co.uk/index.html

i’m doing this solo again.

24 hours of running around the “sleepless in the saddle” course.

energy gels, dextro tablets, lots of water and flapjacks

I’ll have a google and let you know Steve.
Yup doing the TR24 again this year.
Managed an unexpected 11th last year, but without me I think the remaining 7 team members would have finished 10th 😀
This year I think we’re entering 4 teams, so I imagine the talent will be spread about a bit, so more time off between laps 😀
Though obviously not for you 😀

look out for the chubby welsh guy falling asleep on the singletrack about 3 in the morning. last year i had to use a stick to keep me upright after 20 hours, i was nodding off as i was shuffling.

What’s that story of the guy leading the Leadville 100 having a nap across the trail? Needed a rest but figured he wanted to be woken up when the guy in 2nd caught up. That’s you that is 🙂

Cheers stever.
Certainly hope so, thunder run is only 10 weeks away.
For all you sleepless in the saddle nutters, this is the running version, held the weekend before sleepless.

You weren’t the bloke in the union jack zentai suit? Always a slightly disturbing sight no matter what time of the day 🙂