There doesn’t seem to be too many companies out there that solely offer frames to customers (by which I mean they don’t offer full builds through their websites at all). Given the fact that there’s more margin in the frames than the components, and it’s a hell of a lot more faff in terms of ordering in and storing all the finishing kit, dealing with warranties, build time etc. etc., do we think it’s just because most people want the convenience of having a full bike arrive at your door that means most companies don’t sell many frames by themselves? If the product is good enough, would you be fine just ordering a frame or does the need to source the rest of the components and build it up just seem like too much time/effort on your part?

Getting some really nicely made frames made and sold in the UK might be an option in future and it seems like a big step to go from selling a single product in a few sizes, to bringing in full builds and everything associated with that.

So I guess from both a business and customer point of view, what do we reckon?

Given the fact that there’s more margin in the frames than the components

Is there?

You’ve got to buy components from somewhere,so why not them.More money is more money.

Given the fact that there’s more margin in the frames than the components

When you can buy as an OE customer I would’nt be so sure about that.
People are (on the whole) idle.

Given the fact that there’s more margin in the frames than the components

That’s news to me (and everyone else in the bike industry!)… Care to tell us how your business model works?

Lots more margin on full builds.

There is a market for frame sales but why limit yourself to that?

Even if the margin on the parts is lower, wouldn’t you rather sell 100 complete bikes at, say, £3000 than 100 frames at £1000?

Given the fact that there’s more margin in the frames than the components

*sucks teeth*

Yearp, there’s your problem right there…

As a customer I like buying Frame only, as I enjoy spec-ing and building a new bike. If you shop wisely and look out for good deals on components you can sometimes build the bike cheaper than the retail price of the full bike with a similar spec.

I’d have thought the problem would be some people want a bike and really don’t want to build it, some people want a frame and really don’t want a bike.

Why halve your market?

I doubt there are many UK brands bringing in full builds, small brands just bring in frames and assemble bike to order (Cotic, Bird, On-One etc). It’s not until you get to the likes of Genesis that the cost savings of assembling in Taiwan would offset the cost of shipping full bikes.

Poor choice of words on my part, I mean the total investment in building a full bike is a massive step up from just providing a frame. If you’re not going all in down the “I’m starting a bike company” route, then is there a place for non custom, not hand built, frame only options. Just wondering why there doesn’t seem to be many doing it when the model should be similar to that of any other single-item bike product.

Not enough companies selling kids frames only…

I’ve never found a frame only build to work out cheaper than the bike I might otherwise have bought. True, it’s an apples and oranges comparison as a self build to desired spec is not the same as an off-the-peg build in most cases, but it’s never as cheap as you tell yourself it will be in my experience unless you are genuinely building from the spares box with no spares whatsoever…

any other single-item bike product.

almost no-one make a single product.

Poor choice of words on my part, I mean the total investment in building a full bike is a massive step up from just providing a frame. If you’re not going all in down the “I’m starting a bike company” route, then is there a place for non custom, not hand built, frame only options. Just wondering why there doesn’t seem to be many doing it when the model should be similar to that of any other single-item bike product.

I think when you have designed, prototyped and manufactured a bike frame, then getting Sram (or similar) to sell you most of the rest of the bits seems pretty trivial for the extra money to be made and increased market.

I know somebody who runs a frame only bike brand in the uk
I have seen the factory gate volume price list for SRAM/Zipp and it’s enough to make you weep but those prices are only available for serious volume and then you have to sort shipping, storage, workshop, another line of packaging, staff and the cash flow to manage that. It’s a non starter when you consider most people are buying your product because they want to build their own bike plus you probably couldn’t compete with the full builds of the big brands or the volume set-ups like ribble and merlin.
It just doesn’t make good business sense

Why are you bothered about them ONLY selling a frame only option? Dozens of companies do a frame only option alongside their full builds?

those prices are only available for serious volume and then you have to sort shipping, storage, workshop, another line of packaging, staff and the cash flow to manage that.

yeah this is my point, it’s not as simple as “just offer a full build as well”, the extra time, space and money commitment to start from scratch is crazy compared to just offering a frame. Which is why I wonder why there seems to be so few people selling solely frames. You get all the perks of being able to design your own bikes without the baggage that comes with having to spec them and build them yourself. Not saying this is the best way of earning your million, just seems odd that with little bedroom start ups popping up all the time, there seems to be a lack of frame only options… or maybe thats just me

Start small and grow then?

On-one started off when Brant did some work for Dave/Planet-X and in return he introduced him to their framebuilder and the first batch on Inbreds were made. They bumped along for quite a few years just selling a batch of frames at a time which in itself was good marketing as the hype machine that is STW always wanted the next red or blue, or 853, track end, sliding dropout, cable guided versions.

Cotic then started when Cy was talking to Brant.

Both still assemble the bikes in the UK. Which is undoubtedly more expensive on a unit basis, but makes stock control easier as you only need to buy 100 pairs of forks which you can fit to any bike (or sell), rather than end the year with a load of pink XXL bikes having over estimated the market for 26″ bikes for 6ft6 ladies.

If the LBS’s on here are to be believed you can get most stuff cheaper from CRC than the distributors anyway.

Or do what Orange do, charge RRP for everything pretty much on the builds. You still sell £3k builds to those that can afford them, and frames to everyone else. Remember a lot of people won’t even change a gear cable themselves, they’re a substantial part of your market.

Or do what Stooge (and others) do, have a small number of LBS’s which sell your frame, and can offer custom builds. You still sell the frame only, but are catering for the full-build market at the same time with zero evra investment needed (beyond whatever credit terms the shops have).

samjt – Member
Poor choice of words on my part, I mean the total investment in building a full bike is a massive step up from just providing a frame. If you’re not going all in down the “I’m starting a bike company” route, then is there a place for non custom, not hand built, frame only options. Just wondering why there doesn’t seem to be many doing it when the model should be similar to that of any other single-item bike product.

I see what you’re saying, but TBH once you’ve set up an import business with warehousing, order processing and dispatch, a returns and warranty process, marketing and advertising, etc, etc, renting a bit more floor space, ordering up some OEM parts and getting some additional labour in to assemble full bikes isn’t much of a leap, especially if it broadens your market beyond those enthusiastic enough to assemble their own bikes (who probably are the minority really)…

Frame only customers are the niche really, like people who build kit cars or assemble their own PCs, there is a market but it’s not the major one really, most people want to buy a finished, off the peg product…

You miss out on selling lots of frames to people who just want a bike.

For a single frame only buyer how many full build buyers do you think there are. My money would be on greater than 1. Unless you’re giving your time for free each part of the sale should make some profit.

I see what you’re saying, but TBH once you’ve set up an import business with warehousing, order processing and dispatch, a returns and warranty process, marketing and advertising, etc, etc, renting a bit more floor space, ordering up some OEM parts and getting some additional labour in to assemble full bikes isn’t much of a leap

Are you speaking from experience or that’s just what you think might be the case?

Of the 3 bike brand owners I know only one does full builds but when your frames start at £2.5k and go up to £5k then the customer doesn’t care about getting the cheapest groupset when it’s super-record and the wheels are made by Lightweigt, plus the volume of builds are so small that there is no need for a stock room or warehouse.
The other 2 brands are run by just 1-2 people, when a container of product is £50k tied up sat on the water for a month then a premises and staff for builds become a significant expense especially if they are not constantly in use.

It obviously works for some who have the space and the volume but not for smaller brands, that’s not to say it might work but it’s an expensive mistake if it doesn’t and especially when re-investing in new product (more frames) usually pays off quite quickly without adding any significant overheads.

You miss out on selling lots of frames to people who just want a bike.

You also miss out on competing with the huge volume and buying power of the big brands who offer full builds.

Very enlightening thread.

It does highlight that I’m the exception to the rule, by preferring to build bikes from the ground up (the last three times) – but history has proven that I’m definitely not a trendsetter (Unless you count reading “Game of Thrones” twenty years ago)

Come on guys, give the OP a break, it’s half term and he’s got an essay to write.

As a customer I like buying Frame only

+1. just bought my first full build for about a decade. the cable routing has been done poorly from the factory – i’ve had a go at redoing it with whats there, and it’s ok. but really needs the lot replacing. bloody annoying.