I suggest that we try to seperate out our emotionally retarded vigilante fantasies from the intensly complex and difficult work society needs to do to improve itself.

There will always be crime and violence, there will always be inequality, there will always be drugs, we can choose to bury our collective heads in the sand and just bin those who don’t fit the model ‘we’ want, or we can try to continue to include everyone whoever they are and whatever they have done, ultimately because this will better us all.

I believe there is an ever growing list of stabbings for instance

A gaggle of psaychiatrists could have a field day trying to prove the link between this case and youth stabbings, no doubt with evidence supported theories taking into account variables of pollen count and moon phase when the act was committed 😉

Nick

As a matter of interest, are you wearing a tie dye t-shirt and dancing around with flowers in your hair while you type ?

No, unfortunately, sounds like quite a nice way to spend the afternoon !

In fact I’m the complete opposite, I firmly believe that we need to face up to the very difficult questions about humanity this sort of case raises and continue to work to find ways to understand and then hopefully reduce it, we have immediately failed as a race if we give up and throw away the key.

Albert Perripoint,who was the hangman for the British legal system believed the death sentence was little more than state sanctified murder and he also believed it did little good.

I agree,theres plenty of modern countries that despite a death sentence,still have high numbers of murders per year.
.
As you increase the sentence you increase to risks the criminal is willing to take to get away.

shands – You are a star ! …….not much entertains and amuses me more than tabloid-fuelled rantings !

And the ranting in your last post was simply priceless. I really felt after reading it that all coppers should be thrown into prison – they are clearly in collusion with the criminals !

.

So anyway, it’s the “looney lefties” who are opposed to the death sentence is it ? 😀

What, do you mean like the ‘looney left’ government of Margaret Thatcher which refused to re-introduce the death penalty ?

In the recent EU elections right-wingers won a massive majority. As the looney left are clearly not in control of the EU, can we expect the EU to drop it’s opposition to the death penalty ?

Because as you undoubtedly know, the EU will not allow any country with the death penalty to become a member state. In fact the EU campaigns vigorously for a global ban on the death sentence :

”Tireless champion for the abolition of the death penalty throughout the world, the EU proposes a European day against the death penalty. The EU wants to see the death penalty become a thing of the past everywhere on the planet”

And it’s not just the looney left in the EU which has abolished the death sentence. The looney left has abolished the death sentence in most other countries of the world.

Which suggests that the ‘loonies’ are in fact ‘normal’, and it’s the ‘let’s hang ’em brigade’ which are, erm ………….. the actual loonies ?

Here is a list of all the countries which have abolished the death sentence. In brackets are the years when abolition took place (I bet the Venezuelans would be surprised to learn that they have had ‘looney left’ governments for almost 150 years!)

* Albania (2000)
* Andorra (1990)
* Angola (1992)
* Argentina (2008)
* Armenia (2003)
* Australia (1984)
* Austria (1950)
* Azerbaijan (1998)
* Belgium (1996)
* Bhutan (2004)
* Bosnia-Herzegovina (1997)
* Bulgaria (1998)
* Cambodia (1989)
* Canada (1976)
* Cape Verde (1981)
* Chile (2008)
* Colombia (1910)
* Cook Islands (2007)
* Costa Rica (1877)
* Côte d’Ivoire (2000)
* Croatia (1990)
* Cyprus (1983)
* Czech Republic (1990)
* Denmark (1933)
* Djibouti (1995)
* Dominican Republic (1966)
* East Timor (1999)
* Ecuador (1906)
* Estonia (1998)
* Finland (1949)
* France (1981)
* Georgia (1997)
* Germany (1949)
* Greece (1993)
* Guinea-Bissau (1993)
* Haiti (1987)
* Honduras (1956)
* Hungary (1990)
* Iceland (1928)
* Ireland (1990)
* Italy (1947)
* Kiribati (1979)
* Liberia (2005)
* Liechtenstein (1987)
* Lithuania (1998)
* Luxembourg (1979)
* Macedonia (1991)
* Malta (1971)
* Marshall Islands (1986)
* Mauritius (1995)
* Mexico (2005)
* Micronesia (1986)
* Moldova (1995)
* Monaco (1962)
* Montenegro (2002)
* Mozambique (1990)
* Namibia (1990)
* Nepal (1990)
* Netherlands (1870)
* New Zealand (1961)
* Nicaragua (1979)
* Niue (n.a.)
* Norway (1905)
* Palau (n.a.)
* Panama (1903)
* Paraguay (1992)
* Poland (1997)
* Portugal (1867)
* Philippines (2006)
* Romania (1989)
* Rwanda (2007)
* Samoa (2004)
* San Marino (1848)
* São Tomé and Príncipe (1990)
* Senegal (2004)
* Serbia (2002)
* Seychelles (1993)
* Slovak Republic (1990)
* Slovenia (1989)
* Solomon Islands (1966)
* South Africa (1995)
* Spain (1978)
* Sweden (1921)
* Switzerland (1942)
* Turkey (2002)
* Turkmenistan (1999)
* Tuvalu (1978)
* Ukraine (1999)
* United Kingdom (1973)
* Uruguay (1907)
* Uzbekistan (2008)
* Vanuatu (1980)
* Vatican City (1969)
* Venezuela (1863)

LOL! Some of the countries listed above do not need death penalty as living there can already be deemed as a death penalty.

Also most newly formed “EU” countries only abolished death penalty not because they want to but because they have to if they are going to join EU.

As for Philippines because they want to be another state of USA.

LOL! I can see a trend in those countries … incentives is the word.

Oh ya … statistic correlation and significance … eerrmm … you don’t want to go there. Statistic is merely numbers and you can interpret them as much as you like to fit the box.

Hmm, this has run to 4 pages but the OP answered the question in the first post!

“Why can’t they name the fecker?!”

“put a bounty on his head!”

That’s why.

As for Philippines because they want to be another state of USA.

The Philippines abolished the death penalty in 2006 because it wants to be part of the USA ?

The USA – a country world famous for having the death penalty ?

And when exactly are the Philippines going to become the 51st state of this ‘death penalty free’ USA then ?

.

Unbelievable ………………..your stupidity knows no bounds.

.

BTW do you actually understand what the word ‘statistic’ means ? Saying that the Philippines abolished the death sentence is not providing a statistic, any more than me saying that you are some sort of idiot is.
Both are clearly FACTS

Which suggests that the ‘loonies’ are in fact ‘normal’, and it’s the ‘let’s hang ’em brigade’ which are, erm ………….. the actual loonies ?

You can’t tell them that, they are clearly to mental to accept it. I suppose this is what happens when they get released through the “care in the Community” scheme.

I dont want convicted murders back on the street with open access to alcohol, drugs and zero work opportunity for them.

Liberal society tells us that they deserve a ‘second chance’. The sad fact is these people werent first time offenders and this is their ‘second chance’. Any Policeman on here? I bet each murderer etc has a very long history going back to their youth but thanks to our liberal society we have to give them another chance.

Sorry, Im not sure on the death penalty however I think we should have wholelife tariffs for murder committed. Big jails? Yes but it’ll be safer on the streets.

As for Paedophiles, there is no cure so they should never be released. Sorry if that offends anyone.

Liberal society tells us that they deserve a ‘second chance’. The sad fact is these people werent first time offenders and this is their ‘second chance’. Any Policeman on here? I bet each murderer etc has a very long history going back to their youth but thanks to our liberal society we have to give them another chance.

Ah! I’ve got it. Execute at the first transgression and future crimes are prevented. Great work Hora, I always wondered why we didn’t take our policies from the movies. Always seems so simple up there on the silver screen. Now then wheres the speakers Darth Vader outfit…..

PS: Don’t you dare break the speed limit, otherwise its curtains for you m’lad

The sad fact is these people werent first time offenders and this is their ‘second chance’. Any Policeman on here? I bet each murderer etc has a very long history going back to their youth but thanks to our liberal society we have to give them another chance.

So what if the previous offences weren’t murder? You going to lock them up permanently for shop lifting? This isn’t minority report.

Agree that life should mean life and Peadophiles are mentally ill so shouldn’t be released.

No Im talking about the ‘started their crim record at 13, lots of different convictions ending with their first murder’.

The two yardie lads who were locked up recently will get out in their late 40’s. Does that mean they will be ‘safe’ then? Is that guaranteed? They’ve paid their ‘dues’ to soceity. Hmmmm, I think if you murder someone you should expect it back.

Hora – in that sort of case it simply strengthens the case for effective rehabilitation before they murder to prevent that murder.

anyway – the vast majority of murders are not like that – they are domestic incident s of one sort or another – ie it is someone known to the victim who murders in temper

And finally – life does mane life. they are released from jail on parole once the parole board believe that they do not represent a danger to society. They remain on parole and are subject to recall to jail at any time for any reason.

Firing squad for scum like him, so what if he is mentally ill how and why is that an excuse. If ANYONE did that to my kid i would personally maim them

Let’s say your kid has an accident or catches a virus that leaves him brain damaged but physically ok, stuck forever with the mind of a 4 year old. And let’s just say, unaware of his own strength and not being completely understanding of the differences between “right” and “wrong”, accidentally kills/harms another child – you’ll be right there calling for the execution without trial of your own child would you?
And let’s run that a little bit further – let’s say you have 2 children, and the damamged one kills the other one – you’d be right there, ready to pull the trigger, right?

BigButSlimmerBloke, sad to say that whilst you are absolutely correct, you are wasting your valuable time. I suspect his mother was in the queue for gob when she should have been in the one for intellect. 😉

he suffered an abnormality of mind which impaired his responsibility.

You do know its the Defence Solicitors job to sieze on the thinnest of defence dont you?

‘Mentally ill’? You do realise that you need a screw loose to kill someone dont you?

A perfectly sane, normal person doesnt kill someone because they felt like it.

In prison he’ll receive training and indoctronation to set him up for life- after all, theres definitely no honour amongst thieves.

When did the UK general population become soo Liberal? Look to France, would a UK Prime Minister ban all headcoverings as insulting to women? NO. Spineless and I wonder who teaches our children this blend of Liberalism.

Second thoughts, lets help him with his abnormality of mind and shoot him twice in the back of the head. Then hang his body up in Salford as a warning to any other loonies. ****.

🙄

Hora your bizarre drivel just gets worse every day. Please be quiet.

grumm, I’m sure there is a liberal handringing class somewhere waiting on a late-student. Run along dear? 😉 (puts tin-hat on)

See what happened when Thatchers lot closed all the loony bins?? 😯

They are all out, (its Ok until they forget to take their meds).

Handringing? Campanology? If you are going to try and insult someone you could at least spell the words correctly. Numpty.

Campanology? Is that the study of homosexuality? 😕

🙄

I wonder who teaches our children this blend of Liberalism.

Is it Thatchers fault?

Is this thread still going? 🙄

Is it Thatchers fault?

Either that or the Major’s

Whoa just seen this topic and read the report. If anyone did that to my son I’d be up on a murder charge. Easy as.

tommo999, careful. In reality you would need to meet with him, except his apology, keep a correspondence with him whilst he is in jail whilst understanding that he had a hardlife/upbringing.

Whoa just seen this topic and read the report. If anyone did that to my son I’d be up on a murder charge. Easy as.

Read my last post – what if it was your kid that did it?

It’s a long time since I’ve read such self-righteous uneducated Sun reading p1sh. Millions of years of evolution and the like of you knuckle dragging halfwits are the result. I’d like to see Darwin explain that.

tommo999, careful. In reality you would need to meet with him, except his apology, keep a correspondence with him whilst he is in jail whilst understanding that he had a hardlife/upbringing.

Yes because that’s what the family members of murdered people are made to do isn’t it. I read it in the Daily Mail.

By the way it’s ‘accept’.

Why does anyone care? Get a grip, stop reading the news if it causes you to get a fit of the vapours.

As the goverment has borrowed heavily for the future perhaps the cost saving should be taken out of the prison system. After all a bullit for every prisoner could save huge amounts of money. If we just look at it as an accounts issue. Simple really.

Penguinious – Member

When did the UK general population become soo Liberal? Look to France, would a UK Prime Minister

I’m sorry Penguinious, what’s the point you’re making ?

That we don’t put people in prison because unlike France this country is too liberal ? 😕

Because not only does France not have the death sentence, but it also has a much smaller prison population than England and Wales.

France imprisons 91 persons for every 100,000 compared to the 142 per 100,000 England and Wales imprisons – a huge difference. Which by your reckoning must make France a far more liberal country ?

BTW, the USA imprisons 714 persons per 100,000 by far the highest rate in the world – obviously not a very ‘liberal’ country then.

Shame they don’t have a crime-free society to show for it though.

as stated before “kill the bastard”

ernie_lynch I’m talking about Sarkozy’s speach on seculalism and Muslim headwear. A political stance, true. However I admire his stance. Its degrading to women.

Anyway, going back when we had the death sentance- alot of mistakes/miscarriages of justice happened. Now though we have advances in forensics/DNA…why should we have the scrote back on our streets again in the name of a modern society…read into that what you like.

it is secularism
I am certain the advance in science means no innocent people are in jail 🙄
I read into that you are fairly diwittted and lacking in forgiveness and empathy 😉

Ah. Tis like nostalgia. Back to the days of nazi-style spelling tribunals STW/online 😆 8) 🙄

I’m talking about Sarkozy’s speach on seculalism and Muslim headwear.

So what has that got to do with Demi Mahon being battered to death by another child, eh ?

Go on ………. hit me with it

.

The death of Demi Mahon is indisputably, a truly tragic story.

The only way I could see this story becoming any more tragic, would be if the State decided to execute the 15 year old responsible for her death. Or as the OP desperately wants, the 15 year old’s name was released and he was hunted down and murdered by a band of vigilante f**kwits.

I would rather live in a society where neither individuals, the State, nor vigilantes, acted in a barbaric way.

Unfortunately sometimes some individuals will behave in a barbaric way – it would be foolish to believe that this can ever be stopped from happening. But I see no reason whatsoever why the State should ever be reduced to that level. And it is perfectly reasonable to expect it never to do so.

Obviously Penguinious you feel that this scrote’s, as you call him, life is worthless. And like chewkw you believe he should be ‘culled’. But I fail to understand why anyone who clearly attaches so little value to human life, should claim to be particularly concerned with the level of unlawful killings in society.

.

.

For your information :

Manchester Crown Court was told that when the 15-year-old boy was later in secure residential care he said to a member of staff : “I’m not proud of what I’ve done and everyone will think I’m a monster.

“But no one can ever punish me as much as I punish myself.”

And :

The court heard that the boy, who cannot be named for legal reasons, has a mental disorder.

If a person murdered someone, after blah blah blah lawyers argued this and that including all the technical stuff (mental health, underage whatever – underage murderers is a bit tricky … off with the head when they reach adulthood?), that indeed the person committed a heinous crime. Guilty as hell as judged.

Then the choice should be as simple as:

1) The person’s life is to be expired by the state. As Henry VIII would say “Off with the head!” … the modern equivalent might be something more humane like lethal injection.

Or

2) Life imprisonment with no parole for 40 years. (in the meantime we can reduce his sentence by several years if the person let the state harvests the person’s organs … Muuwwwhhhaaaaa!)

Obviously not all punishments should automatically be “off with the head!”, some rehabilitation might be called for example, starting with the softly softly approach first … bugger that if they think they are hard enough then put them to hard labour therapy (depending on what they are not all are hard labour), 10 person to a cell, porridge diet – only sufficient to keep them healthy.

If a person re-offends then more rehabilitation therapy – harder labour, smaller cramp cell and more porridge diet.

Some murderers simply do not deserve to be alive to be frank and I am not interested in rehabilitating them.