I ran my 26" Inbred with 29er rigids, worked great; but didn't like it with the 29er front wheel on though. Too slack.
Rigid seems to work better on 29" for me.
(Speaks he who'll be spending this evening building a Pro2 onto his front wheel to try out the maxle Rebas he's got stashed in the garage. Just to see what a bouncy fronted 29er ht is like.)
had a swift, very comfy ride suited to long days in the saddle, rode 300 mile offroad round the highlands last september on mine.
2 of the guy's were riding orange fives and suffered from fatigue far more than me.
had 2 surly k monkeys, very hasrsh rear end, suited to shorter rides, but ideal to build into a hooligan type 29r hardtail.
i built my last one up with white bros 140mm forks, and it was good for looning about on.
got a ventana el capitan 29r, so far it has been ace at most things.
i am a very unskilled rider, and i love it's skill compensator ride.
i can straighline most stuff instead of wasting time picking a line.
it rides like a rigid 29r up climbs with the pro pedal on, yet with the pro pedal on a softer setting and the seat down it is one of the very few 29rs that is truly DH capable.
with 780mm bars and a 60mm stem the steering is like a normal mtb, no slower, deffo not hard to steer.
anyone in 2 minds wether to take the 29r jump is more than welcome to come a ride mine to see what think prior to buying.
Not wanting to hijack in any way, but since the right people are on this thread, can anyone very briefly compare/contrast the Swift and Karate Monkey?
I own both and run them with their standard rigid forks. Apart from that they are both set up quite differently with the Swift running a 1X9 drivetrain and risers and the Monkey with a 3X9 drivetrain and drops. I find the Swift is the much livelier and better handling bike. The Karate Monkey also handles well but always feels a bit more sluggish than the Swift no matter what set up I go for, especially when going uphill. It just doesn't have that added bit of sparkle that a truly great frame should have. That said, with the right tyres the level of grip is great.
Both are very comfy and like all 29ers once you get them up to speed they feel pretty relentless. The KM in particular will roll over and through most things with no real bother.
In terms of the frame design the Swift is a bit more focussed and not as versatile as the KM in terms of what you can do with it but that is also one of the downsides of the KM; its a bit of a jack of all trades, and I bought it for that very reason, but it does require a bit more work to get it set up just so. The Swift has had the same set up since I built it and felt right from the get go. For some reason I've had a lot of hassle trying to get the riding position comfy enough on the KM and I may have to go for a layback seat post at some point as I always feel like I'm being forced into too forward a position on it. Depending on the drivetrain you use the KM has loads of clearance for big tyres.
The Swift is more expensive that the KM but there is a difference in quality. Thats not to say that the KM isn't well made because it is (and pretty bombproof) but the Swift just feels the more quality product and, lets face it, looks better.
Back from WRT and it was my first time riding a 29er a Swift with rigid forks and I must say I was really impressed really comfy and reassuring if I can say that.
I was worried about the rigid fork and was considering getting a susp fork in due course but I dont think there is a need.
I can see me riding the swift a lot and taking my Zesty for only the really gnarly stuff - time will tell.
All I know is I will not be getting rid of my 26er FS as with the recent price increases etc I cant justify buying a new one again versus what you can build a decent 26/29er hardtail
I heard Cy Turner in that video of him talking to the engineering institute when he said that there were still a few things to sort out on 29er geometry. Especially the trail, offset and castor (or something) which means that some forks give a dead feel to the ride, whereas others have it nice and sharp.
Forzafkawi – you’re not alone in the conclusion you reached and I don’t think a different bike or more time has much to do with it.
I was riding in the US last year where the 29er marketing and hype is in overdrive, so I spent two days riding three different bikes (from Pivot and Niner)and arrived at exactly the same conclusion. No doubt in certain circumstances they work well, though in plenty of other situations they feel horrible – but regardless of how fast they might cover the ground when the terrain is optimal for the bigger wheels (and that wasn’t that often), they were never more fun to ride.
If the stopwatch is a big influence on how much you enjoy a ride, then maybe a 29er could make you happy over the right terrain – but I was glad to give them back!
I don't think that the more time thing is right. IME, I've known straight away when a bike feels right.
I also tried a lot of 29ers (including several that had thus far been lauded as being good examples of the breed) and couldn't find one that I actually enjoyed riding (though no doubt they were plenty fast). Then I borrowed a Swift and that was it - I now have one. I'm sure there are others out there too.
As with all bikes, some are better than others or at least suit some people more than others.
BigJohn - Member
I heard Cy Turner in that video of him talking to the engineering institute when he said that there were still a few things to sort out on 29er geometry. Especially the trail, offset and castor (or something) which means that some forks give a dead feel to the ride, whereas others have it nice and sharp.
This is also important though - lots of the 29ers from a couple of years ago had short offset (38mm IIRC) on the fork which meant slower handling. Pretty much all the forks now (except G2 geo) have 42-44mm which made a noticeable difference.
All that said, 29ers aren't the magic trail tamers that some would have you believe - they have benefits and disadvantages. IME, my 29er is slighly slower than my 26" bikes in terms of flicking it around corners but not enough to really take away from the ride. Where it really gains though is the confidence it gives which in turn makes me do silly things or take silly lines that I wouldn't on a 26" which makes it fun to ride. It's also noticeably better than comparable 26" bikes over roots/rocks up to around 5" in height or so, though bigger than that and the limitations of a hardtail frame make themselves known.
Either way, I'm not rushing out to sell my 26" bikes nor am I going to get rid of my 29er. When I buy my next frame, I'll have a good think about what to go for but it's certainly not a clearcut decision.
I don't think that the more time thing is right. IME, I've known straight away when a bike feels right.
I think that I would tend to agree with you there clubber. In the two hours or so that I rode the Tallboy I felt like I gave it every chance to impress on quite varied terrain. I was conscious the whole time that I was actually testing the bike so was constantly evaluating how it felt downhill on the tight singletrack, up and down the fire roads and how it rolled over the different terrain. In all situations it just didn't feel very impressive.
I'm sure that if I rode it for two days or two weeks I would have probably altered my riding style to take account of its handling characteristics but that doesn't make the bike any better.
I have looked at the Swift and heard good things about it. The only thing that puts me off is the EBB. Doubtless many have no problem with them but I have heard so many stories of creaking etc. that I just don't think I could risk it, it would drive me mad.
Mind you, I will caveat that slightly for full sussers - getting the suspension right can make a huge difference especially on some designs that are sensitive to it.
My EBB has been completely trouble free (eg silent). Come to think of it, I've yet to have an EBB that has been noisy... (using mine geared so never adjust it either).
My EBB has been completely trouble free (eg silent).
+1 for my swift and pegasus
To be rational though - the TB is a 100/120mm race FS 29er made mainly for long distance endurance type stuff. an orange 5 is quite different really given it's significant amount of travel and more burly, all mountain. The TB is also quite small sizewise even in XL, I'm 5'11"and on a L and it's borderline too small but works OK. I wouldn't tar every 29er with that brush. I've ridden a lot of them Inc niners, anthem29, epic etc and some work for me and some simply don't. Same with normal mtbs though - giants I don't get on with. Anyway dunno what you were expecting but it is disappointing not to get what you think you should. I've done several thousand ks on my TB now Inc Alps trips and a fair few long distance events, it's quite good for that, less suitable to the Flegere DH in Chamonix although it coped quite well !!
Rode a Tallboy home tonight. Instantly felt better than the Scale. I'll give a sound thrashing tomorrow before taking it back to the shop & trying a Butcher.
Anyway dunno what you were expecting but it is disappointing not to get what you think you should.
I have read a lot about the pros and cons of 29ers over the last couple of years or so when I have been thinking about getting one. Part of that is that they are supposed to suit the taller rider (I'm 6' 4") so I thought that might also be a benefit to me, not that I feel cramped on a 26er but I've never ridden anything else obviously.
Using What MTB's summary of the Pros & Cons of 29ers, this is what I expected:
Pros
Roll smoother and faster over holes and bumps - didn't notice any difference
More traction from more tyre on the ground - didn't notice any difference but willing to accept that this is very subjective based on tyres and ground conditions
More rolling momentum at speed - Gave it a good thrashing whenever possible especially on wide, flattish terrain but didn't notice anything in particular but willing to accept that this aspect may only show itself under controlled situations like timed racing
More stability due to longer wheelbase and lower CoG - didn't notice this effect either but again willing to accept that some might find it so
Proportionate wheel size to body height helps taller riders get better bike fit - The fit felt fine to me but then again so do all my 26ers
Cons
Larger wheels create more drag and less lively ride - It certainly felt very lethargic and wooden
Harder to accelerate - Very noticeable, every time I tried to accelerate it felt very reluctant
Harder to manual wheelie because of higher axles - Very noticeable again but willing to accept that with a bit more practice this would be a minor fault that could be easily overcome
Slightly slower turning ability - VERY noticeable and I would say major contribution to overall sluggish feel of the bike under most conditions
Heavier than comparable 26er - Didn't especially notice this over my Orange 5 under static conditions but it did feel much heavier in terms of performance
Usually got a number of XL Singular 29ers here (Herts) for folks to try if you are interested.
Pros
Roll smoother and faster over holes and bumps - didn't notice any difference.
Perhaps if you'd ridden with a group on 26ers you would have appreciated how quickly their bikes decellerate in very bumpy terrain whilst the 29er holds speed through this stuff.
More traction from more tyre on the ground - didn't notice any difference but willing to accept that this is very subjective based on tyres and ground conditions.
Try taking on a technical loose climb and watch the 26ers lose traction and stall whilst the 29er spins past.
More rolling momentum at speed - Gave it a good thrashing whenever possible especially on wide, flattish terrain but didn't notice anything in particular but willing to accept that this aspect may only show itself under controlled situations like timed racing.
Speed is less apparent on a 29er due to the dulling of trail chatter. It may not feel so but you are actually travelling quicker. This is akin to the lack of speed awareness that one gets when they drive a luxury car.
More stability due to longer wheelbase and lower CoG - didn't notice this effect either but again willing to accept that some might find it so.
As above.
Proportionate wheel size to body height helps taller riders get better bike fit - The fit felt fine to me but then again so do all my 26ers.
I agree with you on this one. Fit for me was never an issue on my 26ers.
Cons
Larger wheels create more drag and less lively ride - It certainly felt very lethargic and wooden.
They do in muddy conditions as more mud sticks to the tyre. In dry conditions this is not a real issue. I'm an Aussie and in dry conditions the 29er is a definite advantage and races are being won on them.
Harder to accelerate - Very noticeable, every time I tried to accelerate it felt very reluctant.
They are a little slower on burst acceleration but this is often outweighed by the improved traction and speed through the bend. Specific to the trail I think.
Harder to manual wheelie because of higher axles - Very noticeable again but willing to accept that with a bit more practice this would be a minor fault that could be easily overcome.
Need more practice - it is different
Slightly slower turning ability - VERY noticeable and I would say major contribution to overall sluggish feel of the bike under most conditions.
You adjust to that and learn to pick better lines. I keep up with my 26er buddies in the tight and twisty stuff where 29ers apparently struggle. I've never stalled on a switchback that my 26er mates made.
Heavier than comparable 26er - Didn't especially notice this over my Orange 5 under static conditions but it did feel much heavier in terms of performance.
Not really relevant for most trail riders including me - its about the fun after all. Weight is moot.
i think we're over analysing here, the OP didn't like the tall Boy, he wasn't exactly slagging off 29ers, some bikes feel right, some don't 26" or 29" and i understand that, i've jumped on bikes and it felt instantly wrong and i've had no confidence riding them, others i've loved from the start.
it took me a while to get used to 29ers, felt ok to jump on but it is a different riding style and once i adapted (and it'll take differing amounts of time for each individual) it felt much more comfy and confidence inspiring
so in conclusion, ignore what the mags say, they are one person's opinion. try a few 29ers if you can and make up your own mind based on a range of frames rather than one that is aimed at a very narrow genre of riding (endurance race)
Spot on Rocketdog. I love my 29er, because of the way it feels. It totally reminds of how it felt carving through trails when I got my first proper MTB...
Do you really think they're a different riding style RD? I really haven't found that at all unless you mean that they have different strengths/weaknesses that you learn to compensate for.
I agree with rocketdog, I've needed to change the way I ride a bit for my swift. I'd say the less you brake and the more you allow the momentum to carry you through things the better. I know the is true of mtbing per say but I reckon it's even more important on a 29er.
But that's the same for riding say a full susser over a hardtail - it's just tailoring your riding to suit different bikes - I don't really consider that specific to 29ers.
i think we're over analysing here, the OP didn't like the tall Boy, he wasn't exactly slagging off 29ers, some bikes feel right, some don't 26" or 29" and i understand that, i've jumped on bikes and it felt instantly wrong and i've had no confidence riding them, others i've loved from the start.
As it was my first experience of riding a 29er, I was very surprised that I was unable to detect any of "typical" advantages that are supposed to define a 29er. Especially so because this was a top of the range model that has been so highly rated by magazine testers.
Maybe I was naive to expect that it would perform like my Orange 5 but I had also been led to believe that a FS 29er needs less travel than a 26er so assumed that they should be comparible. Obviously they are not.
I am currently in the process of arranging a test of a Singular Swift which so many posters seem to rate, so will let you know how I get on with that. It certainly is a lovely looking bike and if it goes half a well as in looks then I should be convinced.
I'll let you know how I get on.
am currently in the process of arranging a test of a Singular Swift
i can guarantee it won't feel or ride like your 5 
[forzafkawi]
welcome to test out my XL swift - 1x9 with 80mm front forks - based in woking
I have had a Swift for over two years - fits and works well - i'm 6' 6" and for the first time I have had a mountain bike that fits me..
took a risk on the swift after demoing a size large - not so much money to get wrong
Am think about full sus..
biggest issue is the lack of xl size demo bikes - full sus is a whole lot more money and thus would really like to do proper tests..
looking at the Salsa Spearfish - wonder if their are any XL's about for testing
i can guarantee it won't feel or ride like your 5
LOL!
I'm going for the rigid SS. Will I be allowed to compare it to my Genesis iO?
29ers do roll over stuff better giving the feel of a bit more suspension than it actually has, but a 100mm xc bike like the tb is never going to feel as plush as the 5 with 140mm. I don't know what the op was hoping for ,as they are aimed at different types of riding. Also I'd agree about riding differently. I reckon it took me a couple of months to be totally at ease on mine, but I wouldn't go back now
welcome to test out my XL swift - 1x9 with 80mm front forks - based in woking
Thanks for the offer rootes1, that config is almost identical to my Inbred - 1x9 with 100mm RockShox Rebas. Under normal circumstances I might have taken you up on it but I'm going for a rigid SS config on the Swift.
The beauty with the design is though it could morph into one similar to yours in the future.
i started off with rigid on the swift but sus is better..
mine is an older orange 'geared' swift.
Si
My take on it after two weeks and 200 miles on a rigid Scandal. Ridden all sorts of terrain - local woods, long rides on easy trails (railway paths and towpaths), Rothiemurchus and Glen Feshie, Glentress, Pentlands, bit of commuting.
Very impressed with it - it's far more useable than a rigid 26er would be, and in swoopy open stuff it's a hoot, but certainly wouldn't want it as an only bike.
Pros
Roll smoother and faster over holes and bumps - yes, definitely. Less upset by braking bumps, smallish holes and square edges. Seriously impressed with how much a rigid bike can handle
More traction from more tyre on the ground - maybe, but I think the bigger wheels rolling over stuff has more to do with it than contact patch. Have ridden up some loose steep stuff and steps I normally wouldn't make on a 26er, and it can take smooth, sweeping corners well quick
More rolling momentum at speed think so - seems to carry speed a bit better (or rather feels like it looses speed a bit less easily than a 26er if that is different)
More stability due to longer wheelbase and lower CoG - certainly feels stable and much more "in" the bike than 26ers which IMO is good thing as long as you keep pedal clearance
Proportionate wheel size to body height helps taller riders get better bike fit - I'm 5' 11" and riding an 18 frame so not sure I can comment here cos they don't make 29ers much smaller than that
Cons
Larger wheels create more drag and less lively ride - not hugely noticable - suspect rigid ride "involvement" is offset by any negatives here
Harder to accelerate - Yes - first couple of pedal strokes seem a bit more laboured getting up to speed, but once you're going you're in business, and carrying speed means less acceleration anyway
Harder to manual wheelie because of higher axles - Very noticeable, but possibly doesn't matter as much as rolls over things better and more "in" the bike so less teetering over normal sized drops etc
Slightly slower turning ability - Sweeping turns and berms are ace , but slow speed stuff is a more of a challenge - need to "flick" the bike into turns a lot more. The turning circle is a bit larger too; there's one trail junction I ride that I basically have to do almost a complete turn back on myself to get into and i can do that on 26er but have to hop the back wheel round a bit on 29er - it just don't fit.
Heavier than comparable 26er - Can't really say. 29er is lightest MTB - probably because it's fully rigid - don't think much in it
Just add my tuppence worth to the debate, i have a turner flux and a jamis 853 dragon 29er hardtail, last weekend we rode a few trails which you could call rocky technical and slightly upwards ok abit more in places.
The flux is 26inch 120mm forks, 100mm rear give or take, lightish build with maxle forks.
The dragon is 120mm forks 29er hardtail but is a 2x10 27 by 36 being the easiest gear standard forks, both are tubeless.
So we took both bikes, my mate on dragon me on flux, on the climbs both climbed well but the gearing on the dragon makes it a good workout, i dont care what the mags say give me a triple anyday with 22 by 34 easiest gear. On the downs the dragon is as fast as the flux, i rode both swapping from time to time. On downhill swoopy corners the dragon stuck better.
But the dragon is defo the better bike on any rocky flat, slight climbs or slopes, several times the flux's wheels would drop in a dip and stop the bike but the dragon just rolled over, so we decided on the way home that short travel fs 29er is probaly the best bike to have, so i am looking at tallboys, niner jet etc, sat on a niner jet today med size it had a stem 130mm and a layback post but still felt cramped. Here endeth the first lesson. Sorry its abit long.
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