I’ve had a bit of a wake up call over the weekend as a close mate of ours had an off and has landed up in hospital with a neck injury. Also I’ve seem a couple of folk coming off lately which wasn’t nice to see.

Yes myself and friends have the odd tumble here and there. The rule is to check to see if all is ok and if the answer is yes then we laugh….

Obviously there is only so much you can do after a nasty tumble without the aid of professionals but it shocked me on how little I know!I would like to be a bit more prepared.

Anyway with the fore mentioned,

First Aid courses specifically for mtb/outdoors, what’s around and any recommendations? Cheers

Ask your local bike clubs for recommendations, often they’ll have put members through courses.

Mountain Sense – run by the head of Keswick Mountain Rescue, from the YHA in Borrowdale, so you’ll get a spin around the Bash too.

Do a first aid course designed for outdoorsy folk like http://www.cyclinguk.org/courses-training/leading-instructing-and-training-others/cpd-and-specialist-courses/first-aid-in-o

Don’t a couple with Rick Cotgreave through ITC. Both in the Peak, both 16 hour and outdoor specific.

I would look no further than Underwood Training. Not bike specific but a very thorough look at first aid from basics to what to do in the middle of no where when help may be an hour+ away.

That’s who I used when I was guiding. I now get courses paid for work through The Red Cross and St. John’s Ambulance. Utter, strung out, mindless, “let’s have a jolly away from the office”, useless courses in comparison to Underwood Training.

Loads of folk doing these. You’ll be looking for a 2-day course. Try BASP/Glenmore Lodge etc.

http://www.basp.org.uk/

Instructor for our tailored the course specifically for MTBing. It was even (mostly) delivered outdoors on the Nevis Range DH track with plenty of props and fake blood for realism, except when we were defrosting in the top station cafe.

have a google under ‘2 day Outdoor First Aid Course’ and it should come up with ones nearby for you. It is a recognised course and certificate, used by leaders, guides etc – pretty good and relevant content throughout.

As others have said BASP first aid courses are designed for outdoor situations and will provide situations suitable for your needs

I would look no further than Underwood Training. Not bike specific but a very thorough look at first aid from basics to what to do in the middle of no where when help may be an hour+ away.

That’s who I used when I was guiding. I now get courses paid for work through The Red Cross and St. John’s Ambulance. Utter, strung out, mindless, “let’s have a jolly away from the office”, useless courses in comparison to Underwood Training.

The issue with ‘first aid at work’ type courses is they are generally designed to train people to do one thing – stop things getting any worse for 10 minutes until the green uniforms arrive.
This doesn’t help when you are out in the country and it’ll be while before any professional help arrives.

As others have said, just do a search for ‘outdoor first aid course’ and you’ll find something local – doesn’t need to be bike specific – injuries are injuries.

I’ve had to do the ‘wilderness first aid’ thing a few times (critically injured casualty at bottom of ravine in the snowy mountains, Australia and partially severed finger 5 hours from hospital in Sahara desert spring to mind) so know things can play out.

Here is a picture of me removing a ring from the partially severed finger in Morocco –

I’d question if you really need a two day course, assuming you don’t need a piece of paper to satisfy some official body, then given you will also have virtually no special equipment with you I think the principles can be taught to an intelligent and receptive audience in a small group in a day. You will obviously get more from a two day course, but IMHO a good instructor who understands what he is trying to do is explain principles and basic techniques can get across the key elements or airway management, immobilising fractures, keeping casualties warm and managing blood loss, along with some burns and CPR in a full day. If they want you to learn pneumonics for causes of unconsciousness etc parot fashion they have missed the point. CPR is obviously a key skill, but if we are realistic, in a rural setting is unlikely to be effective, so if you spend too long on it or e.g. It’s baby variations are you learning what you need or what they want to teach you?

Have a look for REC or BASP, both do outdoors-tailored first aid courses, both are worth a look. Providers vary in their styles but have to prove their course content covers everything necessary.

I’ve done REC courses with two or three different providers over the past decade-plus, and all have been good. A decent instructor will tailor things as well, I’ve had noticeably different courses with bikers, kayakers, hill walkers etc.

An interesting aside on this that shows you really need a tailored course not generic. Healthcare workers like me are regularly taught and refreshed on CPR. The first thing we are taught to do if we see a casulaty on the ground is to shake them by the shoulders shouting ” are you all right” IIRC bikepawl saw this happen at GT – that somone crashed and went down unmoving and the first person to them was a doctor – and his first move was to grasp the casualty by the shoulders and shake them hard! Not the best move for someone who might have spinal injuries

edit
Because of my training this would be my first move as well unless I managed to take a step back mentally.

somone crashed and went down unmoving and the first person to them was a doctor – and his first move was to grasp the casualty by the shoulders and shake them hard! Not the best move for someone who might have spinal injuries

edit
Because of my training this would be my first move as well unless I managed to take a step back mentally.

Interesting – during my last first aid at work course we were told not to shake people to try and wake them/get a response for this very reason.
It was suggested that 2 sharp taps to the shoulders should be enough to get a response (if you were ever going to get one)

However we were also told that ultimately preservation of life should be prioritised above potential spinal injuries (but we’re getting in a bit deep here and going off topic a bit)

We are being taught CPR specifically not first aid hence the shake and wake so you know if they are properly unconscious or not. But when one is trained well and repeatedly in the same thing in emergencies one tends to follow the training.

Despite being a registered nurse I am not a first aider in the eyes of the law – neither is a trauma consultant!

Thanks for the replies, some very useful posts/links there
Cheers

First move is always airway, breathing, catastrophic bleed is it not? Surely the same in any setting?
Sorting those three will save lives.
The only time I’ve used mine was a broken leg and as it was heard to snap and there was a 90 degree bend near the ankle, it was straightforward to diagnose. The colourful language proved airway and breathing…..

I’d question what your NHS trust is teaching TJ – my Mrs delivers the basic life support training for her NHS trust, and they teach pinching the earlobe with a finger and thumbnail to try and wake somebody in a less invasive manner.

I’d generally agree with Poly. The one advantage of a 2 day course was a few extra hours to try some real scenarios out on a hillside which was much harder than in a classroom.

My biggest eye-opener was the cardiac arrest graph showing % chance of survival vs time taken for an AED to arrive – CPR is just keeping the organs going, and things look pretty hopeless beyond about 15 mins.

First move is always airway, breathing, catastrophic bleed is it not?

erm …not quite! If you’re unfortunate enough to come across a catastrophic hemorrhage you need to treat that first. There’s no point in starting CPR if you’re only going to get the heart pumping blood out of a gaping hole!

Having been an MRT member and having done MREW CasCare, I’ve found the REC courses pretty good, but be careful there is Rescue Emergency Care and Remote Emergency Care …go for the former

I thought first aid was first aid regardless of the setting?

Surely the rest is common sense?

Boxelder, only after you’ve assessed for danger (and response). At a trail centre the biggest contribution might be ensuring nobody else hits the casualty.

FunkyDunk, no the action you take in each case might be very different in my office (warm, ambulance quite reasonably expected in 8 minutes, help available by shouting loudly) from on a mountainside with no mobile signal, in the rain, and with the nearest road an hour away. And working with casualties on a flat floor with no obstacles is very different from someone entangled in a tree on a steep slope. Not to mention that the type of injuries commonly encountered MTBing are often quite different from in the office, and the type of equipment you can fit in your pack often means you will need to improvise (which you might call common sense but under pressure in the heat of the moment many people will not consider that their zip ties might be adaptable as a sling, or to hold a dressing in place, etc)

Having been an MRT member and having done MREW CasCare, I’ve found the REC courses pretty good, but be careful there is Rescue Emergency Care and Remote Emergency Care …go for the former

I did Remote Emergency Care a several years back and thought it was great. Ex-squaddie / ex-copper teacher who’d perviously broken his back surfing and now volunteered with the Dorset ambulance service – very, very good instructor. Good to know the above tho.

Boxelder, only after you’ve assessed for danger (and response). At a trail centre the biggest contribution might be ensuring nobody else hits the casualty.

Absolutely … good old DR ABC, but with a slight modification to look for that catastrophic bleed if necessary.

And the start to remember the rest of your alphabet …DEF..GH!!

Boxelder is right with his ABC. If you get that right you’ve done 99% of what you can do.

Forget wasp stings, ankle sprains, even small confined fractures, they are all generally survived.

I’m lucky. I have to do a 3day FAaW course for work. I manage to blag that everytime and get them to book me on an outdoor FA course with Cumbria First Aid (Pete Cunningham). He does the course,which is a great course, then gives me a special 1on1 for an hour doing the statutory bits like FA book recording and all that guff so he can give me the FAaW qualification. That lasts for 3 years. The course is all done outside and with proper stuff, not office paper-cuts!

Like most people, I’ve used my training far, far, far more outside of work than while i have at work!

C

I would also recommend the outdoor first aid course as it gets you outside performing scenarios as well as the classroom based information. We run them at work – ITC 2 day (near Bakewell in the Peak District):

http://www.thornbridgeoutdoors.co.uk/activities-courses/category/accredited-courses/first-aid/outdoor-first-aid/list/

Mickr – thats the standard training all across scotland and as far as I am aware most of the rest of the world. Shake and wake is the first thing you do after ascertaining that they are not on an electricity cable or the like. this is not only basic life support but in advanced as well.

We are also taught ABCDE

However its not really relevant to the debate – it was just as an example of why you need a tailored course as for MTBers shake and wake is not really the right advice as cardiac arrest is unlikely a but spinal or limb injuries are

TJ – However its not really relevant to the debate – it was just as an example of why you need a tailored course as for MTBers shake and wake is not really the right advice as cardiac arrest [i]simply being asleep[/i] is unlikely a but spinal or limb injuries are

ftfy! I suspect with the increasing number of middle aged MTBers that actually MI’s and therefore the risk of cardiac arrest amongst the biking community is likely to be increasingly common!

oops – double post

Just looking at the first aid card in my wallet, we’re taught SAFE approach (Shout for help, Approach with care, Find th casualty, Evaluate the casualty) and then CABCDE, with the initial C being catastrophic bleeds, D being disability and E is expose, environment.

If in any doubt always apply a tourniquet (don’t actually do that)

If in any doubt always apply a tourniquet (don’t actually do that)

Worked for Rambo…

On a serious note, it saved a guy’s life at school. Kid sliced his brachial on the broken glass of a red ‘phone box (I’m unsure of details, so not going to pass judgement of whether it was stupid vandalism or not). A mate of his had seen Rambo apply a tourniquet, copied it and saved a life.

Remote first aid is what you need. You witness a crash as you say, but then no phone signal no other bikers, no fire road nearby. What do you do ? That’s what you need first knowledge in.

BASP or REC are good.