I don't normally feed the trolls but would you make the same offensive comments about a anorexic person as you do about a obese person?

I'm absolutely not picking a fight here jools, but I find this interesting. My sense is that most people probably don't particularly mean to be vile about people who are actually mentally ill. They are however very intolerant of people who do eat too much and don't take enough exercise and always have a ready excuse why that isn't the reason they're overweight. Then the defensiveness sets in, and we get this tendency to define all or most fatness as a psychiatric condition (driven by self-loathing or whatever) that no-one has to take responsibility for because they have a food addiction.

It'd be interesting to work it the other weay around. I'm laughably skinny, to the extent that women snigger openly when I take my shirt off to reveal my ribcage. I have a normal bmi and am perfectly healthy, I am just waaaay too lazy to work out and don't naturally grow muscle (or anything else) on my chest or shoulders.

Now, skinny people are not the butt of the sort of cruelly effective humour that fat people are at all, so the comparison isn't accurate. But if someone laughed at me for having no pectoral muscles, and I came back and told them that it was mean to laugh at anorexics and excessive skinniness was a mental illness so they shouldn't laugh at me for having no mucles and visible ribs they'd tell me I was a prat. Rightly so, I reckon.

I think part of what goads people into pushing it so far in mocking the fat is this tendency to respond by denying responsibility, when as far as most people's commonsense view has it the vast majority of people who are fat enough to be funny because they're fat are not mentally ill particularly, they're just fat. That may be quite wrong (molgrips took the view earlier that it was). But equally there are plenty of people like theartistformerlyknownasSTR who claim to have simply shaken themselves and lost the excess weight, which rather suggests that if it is all mental illness it's not often of the insurmountable sort.

It's a nasty one this, because it goes on and on and often offends people. I'm trying not to, so sorry if I am. 🙂

why do fat people always blame other people for their condition?

a) they don't always – you generalising tw*t
b) it's called being in denial, and is a way of coping when subconsciously you know you're shit
c) they might just not understand – lot of unintelligent people in the world.
d) facing up to your problems can be very difficult – especially when society (ie people like YOU) treat you like scum and openly point and laugh about you to their mates making them feel like the worst pieces of sh*t in the world.

And no I am not obese.

joolsburger – Member
Blah, blah, blah…

The kind of ignorance demonstrated by some people on here makes me sick to my considerable stomach.

Bulemia? It might just work for you…

Oh, I'm a bald bugger too and not what you'd call conventionally handsome.

If someone calls me a bald ugly t**t, you won't find me crying myself to sleep.

(I've somehow managed to bag a fit missus though – and hang on to her for 17 years. I'm not sure how she'd respond to daylight now and the ropes are starting to rub a bit of late.)

I don't consider myself mentally ill just lacking in self discipline but I am in the process of losing two stone, at the end of that I'll still be 14 and a half stone! I'm a big guy though always have been.

I've piled on the pounds being in a sedentary job for six months with access to all kinds of delectables at lunchtime I've been fat and lazy and I know it, to be completely honest. I take solace in the fact that as I get fitter I have a definite way and am very motivated to get back to my fighting weight.

There are however those for whom eating too much is indicative of much more deep seated mental issues and I think it's something that people should be a bit less judgemental about.

Being fat for an awful lot of people is a sign of massive unhappiness and hearing that they are worthless crap can't help eh.

TSA – I'm sure someone likes you, try not to worry about it too much.

There are however those for whom eating too much is indicative of much more deep seated mental issues and I think it's something that people should be a bit less judgemental about.

Well put. This point should be made early and firmly at the very start of any of these debates, then perhaps we'd all just STFU. 🙂

G'night.

Being fat for an awful lot of people is a sign of massive unhappiness and hearing that they are worthless crap can't help eh.

It's too easy to put someone else down, because you feel inadequate yourself. In fact it's a regrettable Human trait. Perhaps it takes a bit more dignity to rise above petty bullying, than some people can manage.

Think what you like about someone else's laziness, lack of discipline etc, but have some respect for their feelings. It's not too much to ask.

OK, heres one I'll put to you…

I'm a fat git, properly overweight, and I shouldnt be!

Ten years ago, I was thin, properly thin and heading down into a void of 'sports anorexia' – ie riding a lot and not eating anywhere near enough – mentally I really was in a very dark place and theres no doubt I was obsessive and somewhat addicted to the kick of training and losing wight in the process. I was also living with someone with a history of eating disorders, a recovering anorexic, who wrote down everything she ate and was subject to relapses.

Overall, it wasnt a good place to be mentally, and physically I was really starting to go down, lost several stone in the course of two years! I was fast and fit on the bike though…

I had and have seen up close and personal the pain and horror of anorexia nervosa, and watched someone I loved very, very much starve themselves and be torn apart by it – Frankly I saw myself going down the very same thought processes and character/behaviour traits –

I panicked and went the other way! went to the heavier side of "average", but mentally a lot better place.

We split up a few years ago, I went into a bout of depression and put more weight on, I also had difficulties with a leg injury and sciatica, got over them but had real difficulty shedding the weight…

I've successfully gone on a diet a few times, but given my history I know how to do it just a little too well! I tend to find myself going in too fast and too hard – I lose weight too quickly (3 stone/3 months) I overtrain and, quite simply, the mental obsessiveness and weight loss kick come back in – and you know what, it **** terrifies me! I don't want to go back to that place again, I've watched what it does to someone, I've seen what it does to me, and I hate, hate, hate it.

So, I panic and go the other way again – so I yo yo, up and down… terrified to lose weight and hating myself for putting it on!

You know what – I'm not stupid, I know thats a mental disorder, whether I like it or not -basically, I'm sort of an anorexic trapped inside a fat persons body…

Complex eh!

a) they don't always – you generalising tw*t
b) it's called being in denial, and is a way of coping when subconsciously you know you're shit
c) they might just not understand – lot of unintelligent people in the world.
d) facing up to your problems can be very difficult – especially when society (ie people like YOU) treat you like scum and openly point and laugh about you to their mates making them feel like the worst pieces of sh*t in the world.

a. i guess you are right not all pie eaters blame the pies.
b. these people are not shit, they just weigh more than you, you generalising tw*t
c.tru dat.
d. I have never treated anyone like scum or openly pointed and laughed at an obese person, they have enough to deal with carrying their quivering carcass around without somebody openly pointing that out.

Yowsers you're in a complicated place there zulu!
I saw my mum deal with bulimia when I was growing up and to see the obsession over counting calories, watching every detail of what you eat, arguing with the mirror made quite an impression. I think it's left me with the idea that it's not great to obsess over food, maybe you will get there one day!

I've always had a bit of fat round the gut, my brother is the opposite and has never had a belly, and he eats crap.

Weird that you had those tribes years ago where a fat woman was viewed as desirable, as food was scarce and it showed you were richer than those around you. Now food is plentiful and we have more obese people than ever, yet the adverts would have you belive that being skinny is the ideal. People will happily pay more money for food with little or no calories! madness.

I commute to work and like it as it keeps the fat down a bit, and I can eat more of what I like 🙂 Yet when some people are impressed I do 'all that exercise' I point out my journeys only just cover the government's reccomended half an hour 5 times a week. I think our ancestor's would have been very surprised at just how little physical effort we need to do to survive theses days. A bit like reducing the CO2 you put out, the infrastructure that surrounds you limits a lot of your choices and slowly changes the norm. So the 'progress' has made that human desire to eat rich foods where possible (thank the fatties for keeping the species going through some of those harsh winters 🙂 ) a bit of a double edged sword.

Stoner

'Im more than happy to be prejudiced against anyone who can be categorised by an elective act of their own. The religious, the fat, the mulleted, Man Utd supporters, etc etc. Each manifestation of someone's personal choices provides information on which to base an assumption about that person. Nowt wrong with that.

Rusty's extension into prejudice about the handicapped, race, gender or sexuality is spurious since they are examples of non-elective states.'

Agree. Rarely is such wisdom shown.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45041000/jpg/_45041201_bbc_britain_marjorie466.jpg%5B/img%5D
dust anyone?

we get this tendency to define all or most fatness as a psychiatric condition (driven by self-loathing or whatever) that no-one has to take responsibility for because they have a food addiction

Since when does having an addiction or psychiatric problem absolve you of responsibility? I was in no way implying that it does.

I'm also not alleging that every fat person has this kind of problem either. But there are a great many fat people that hate themselves, and wish they were thin, but are unable to do much of anything about it for one reason or another. This needs a bit of thought, surely?

Oh, and there's a massive difference between being say bald and fat. If you're bald, you're bald – it's not your fault, and there's nothing you can do about it. If you're fat, most of society seems to think you're utterly deplorable scum, they taunt you openly in the street and make you feel like the most pathetic excuse for a human being. This is a terrible amount of pressure, and it's no wonder that people's mental state and grip on things crumbles….

Zulu-Eleven – Member
OK, heres one I'll put to you…

I'm a fat git, properly overweight, and I shouldnt be!

Ten years ago, I was thin, properly thin and heading down into a void of 'sports anorexia' – ie riding a lot and not eating anywhere near enough – mentally I really was in a very dark place and theres no doubt I was obsessive and somewhat addicted to the kick of training and losing wight in the process. I was also living with someone with a history of eating disorders, a recovering anorexic, who wrote down everything she ate and was subject to relapses.

Overall, it wasnt a good place to be mentally, and physically I was really starting to go down, lost several stone in the course of two years! I was fast and fit on the bike though…

I had and have seen up close and personal the pain and horror of anorexia nervosa, and watched someone I loved very, very much starve themselves and be torn apart by it – Frankly I saw myself going down the very same thought processes and character/behaviour traits –

I panicked and went the other way! went to the heavier side of "average", but mentally a lot better place.

We split up a few years ago, I went into a bout of depression and put more weight on, I also had difficulties with a leg injury and sciatica, got over them but had real difficulty shedding the weight…

I've successfully gone on a diet a few times, but given my history I know how to do it just a little too well! I tend to find myself going in too fast and too hard – I lose weight too quickly (3 stone/3 months) I overtrain and, quite simply, the mental obsessiveness and weight loss kick come back in – and you know what, it **** terrifies me! I don't want to go back to that place again, I've watched what it does to someone, I've seen what it does to me, and I hate, hate, hate it.

So, I panic and go the other way again – so I yo yo, up and down… terrified to lose weight and hating myself for putting it on!

You know what – I'm not stupid, I know thats a mental disorder, whether I like it or not -basically, I'm sort of an anorexic trapped inside a fat persons body…

Complex eh!

It's stories like this that show why you shouldn't make snap judgements, as you know nothing of people's lives just by looking at their weight.

To pick on someone for whatever reason says a lot more about yourself than the person you are laughing at imo. People should just concentrate on their own lives instead of judging others. Sounds like a John Lennon song! 😉

"TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR

Oh, I'm a bald bugger too and not what you'd call conventionally handsome"

Are you unconventionally handsome??

😉

Or conventionally ugly? 😕

Or unconventially ugly? 😥

It's not too much to ask.

unless it's ton :o)

Wow! it would appear that this has turned into a mostly sensible discussion.

ghengis:
I said yesterday that

…..very difficult to say when issues with over or under consumption of food becomes a non-elective psychological condition.
Would long term anorexics benefit from being kicked out of hospital, told to eat something and then left to it?

and I still believe this to be true.

This is not a black and white issue – from my own experience and of that of many people I've spoken to, weight issues are usually a manifestation of deeper self image problems, especially, but not exclusively for those at either end of the scale (no pun intended :D).
Does anyone seriously believe that apart from one or two publicity seeking individuals, anyones chooses to be morbidly obese, anorexic or bulimic, to inflict this level of self-harm upon themselves?

Many people with weight issues have to be very self disciplined in unhappy or incredibly stressful aspects of their life that they have little control over.
I see this daily in my job.
Food (or alcohol, gambling, shopping, an abusive relationship – take your pick) becomes a release, a solace and one they eventually have difficulty controlling.

Of course many, many people, probably the ones who have been the most offensive on this thread, are able to cope with great stress and unhappiness in their lives without resorting these things and they are to be envied.
It would be nice to think that if they ever find themselves in a situation they are not able to control they will be offered help, instead of being judged as weak and ignorant.

Nice to see that the 'jolly fat man' stereotype is alive and well, as ably demonstrated yesterday. Respond and we reinforce it, don't respond and you're patronised. We can't win can we?
As a short bloke (supposedly angry) and a fat bloke too (supposedly happy and cheerful) I'm luckily able to recognise these stereotypes for the nonsense that they are 😀

Thanks to the usual suspects for their thoughtful and incisive posts on this subject. On the other hand, some of the posts attempting to draw a correlation between intelligence and weight issues are insulting in the extreme, and have certainly modified my opinion about some of the regular posters on this forum.

Thanks for reading, I'm off for some lunch!

Well said RS. Although it should be pointed out that acknowledging a problem doesn't mean that you therefore don't have to try and fix it. So the above is not an excuse, merely an analysis of the depth of the problem.

Its a very odd feeling craving food. I have booted fags into touch and only drink occasionally at the weekend (I used to do both in excess). The only thing that has kept me awake at night though is this craving..got to eat..got to eat. Hunger? No.just peckish. Greedy

This kind of behavour got me up to 110KG pretty much un-noticed in a few married years (I was 85KG at 19) and the only thing that pushed me to change was having a baby. Couldnt affort 2 cars so one went and I got on a bike for the first time in 10 years! I got down to 92kg last year but it took real concious effort –

Trouble is that effort must be sustained . I am gutted as now my weight has bounced up to 97kg. I ride my bike just as much but I give into the lust for food more often… You let your guard down and you are eating again. All those new clothes are starting to get tight. Your willy gets smaller. (its true you know)

So I am giving it another go (Marin Roughride in June 🙂 )

3 days and its all good. No binging (a big problem for me; a snack turns into a blowout) No half-loaves of bread. Long way to work. Lots of water.

It is down to the individual to loose weight. The more society accepts larger people though, the less the individual feels he/ she needs to change. Only now do I realise how unbelievably unheathy I was.

edit. Oh and my Wife informs me I am snoring again 😯

Has anyone mentioned the role of the food companies in this – while I believe most overweight people do not have psychological issues but I also believe the rise in obesity is down in a large part to the food companies and a couple of things in particular – trans fats and high fructose corn syrup – (which is more or less what is used in sports energy drinks.)

Its lethal stuff

good for you Dancake.

draw a correlation between intelligence and weight issues

And sense of humour.

The very fat family I encountered today in McD's tucking into more food than most folk could manage (and I make an assumption here) are fat by their own doing. Their kids are fat because the parents are fat. The parents are fat because they eat too much fast food. The kids notion that two Big Macs can be negated with a diet coke probably gives a fair reflection of the valuable insight into life that they have received from their parents.

Fruit's filling too you know.

I can't believe some people on here are trying to even suggest that the blame could possible lie elsewhere other than themselves in a person being fat!

When travelling through Cambodia, guess what? I never saw one fat Cambodian! And I guarantee the vast majority of them have far greater issues and troubled histories than some overweight middle class mountain bikers from Britain! They eat moderate amounts of food, not by choice, the only difference for people in western countries is that you have to consciously limit the food by saying no occasionally. And maybe take a ride or walk. Dead easy!

PS if anyone does want to lose weight fast – Pennine way on army rations, 1 1/2 stone in 16 days, more scenic than the Atkins!

geminafantasy – good post. End of thread I think.

Although I am 16 stone I am anorexic, every time I look in the mirror I see a fat Bast4rd looking back at me 😀

On a more serious note, where do you draw the line between big and fat? Someone posted they can easily distinguish the difference but I want to know where the line is, at 5' 10" and 16 stone, am I fat or am I big? And don't use the generic BMI thing because apart from my waist there is very little excess ie, the muscle definition in my legs and arms is very pronounced. Other things to consider are my cholestrol is 4.3, my last Hba1c was 6.7 (have type 1 diabetes), my liver and kidney functions are normal, my blood pressure is spot on, my resting heart rate is 48, there is no protein in my urine, I walk with my palms facing inwards, do not have sausage fingers or piggy eyes and have only lost time at work in the last 6 years due to mtb accidents/injuries – would you employ me if I was qualified for the job with the relative experience?

Well, assuming you're not ginger, sure 😉

votchy – I don't want to piss on your bonfire but….

molgrips
Yep, spot on, I should have added something to that effect.

As for the humour thing Samuri, I've got no problem with people having a laugh and a joke, some really amusing comments on here.
But some have posted comments which seem almost pathological in their hatred and contempt – I wonder whether these posters display such levels of intolerance and ignorance to other sectors of society, or is it just reserved for fatties?

I found this W.H.O site this morning, which seems to give a good overview of the worldwide extent of the problem and possible causes of the obesity epidemic: link here.

Also, talking about this last night someone (very thin BTW!) came up with the theory that humans are genetically predisposed to increase body mass during times of plenty as a safeguard against famine. So if you give people access to limitless supplies of unhealthy cheap food, they are almost hardwired to binge as much as possible.
Not saying I agree with this, but interesting nontheless.
Even though we understand that obesity is a bad thing, maybe it's going to take many generations for the message to get through and for us to evolve a sense of healthy proportion when it comes to food.
Doing so takes enormous self discipline, which many people just don't have, or if they do they don't realise it. Comes down to self worth again maybe?

Reading about others struggles with weight issues on here has prompted me to redouble my own efforts. I'm about 2 stone overweight and I know I'd feel better without it, and would be a better bike rider to boot.
So, I'll cut out the crap, reduce portion sizes, stay off the pop and see what happens. I need to make behavioural changes too – I tend to eat crap when a bit down, much more self discipline required in that area.

wonder whether these posters display such levels of intolerance and ignorance to other sectors of society, or is it just reserved for fatties?

I'd say it's quite likely, that someone harbouring that much prejudice towards just one group of people because of their perceived inferiority, is probably prejudiced towards others they perceive to be inferior to themselves. As I've said earlier; prejudice is essentially a symptom of a person who feels inadequate, and needs to debase others in order to feel better about themselves.

possible causes of the obesity epidemic

I bet i could have a guess….

Talkemada – Member

Really, so you can you honestly point at a situation where being obese is good for the overall health of any individual?

There are many instances of people being malnourished and underfed. It's just that overweight people are easier to spot…

Answer the question

Really? Do tell how do you work that one out.

Why, are you too thick to work it out yourself?

Nope but apparently you are unable to phrase a reasonable reply for one reason or another. I'm choosing another.

No question that obesity is a terrible issue for many people. However, reverting back to the OP I still fail to see why an employer should not take an individuals health into account as part of a recruitment process. Obesity is just one indicator amongst many that a person may have ongoing health issues. So why should they not take it into consideration as a factor in a reasoned decision making process? That is not to say the sole factor, just one of many.

BermBandit; the response you quote was in relation to your questioning why mental health issues would have a greater impact on an individual's ability to do a job (in most cases) than their weight. Seeing as how most jobs these days aren't significantly physical, the only real effort required would be mental. Thus, mental illness would probably have a greater impact than weight issues.

An individual must be judged on their ability to do a job, not on anything unrelated to that task. It's the Law.

Discriminating against a person because of the assumption that they might suffer health issues that would hinder their productivity is unfair. A slim, 'healthy' looking person may develop health issues that would hinder them far more than excess weight. You simply can't tell, just by looking at someone, how they might turn out. If a person has medical issues that may affect their ability to work, then this must be taken into account. Just saying 'oh, sorry, you're too fat, we don't want you', is not on.

the only difference for people in western countries is that you have to consciously limit the food by saying no occasionally. And maybe take a ride or walk. Dead easy!

Of course it is – dead easy! That's why everyone who has tried to lose weight has found it really easy! 🙄

It's actually very difficult mate. It can take a hell of a lot more than 'saying no occasionally'. And I might suggest further that people telling them how ridiculously easy it is can make fat people hate themselves even more when they fail.

We should acknowledge that it can be very difficult, it can sometimes be a lifelong struggle and it is a lot harder for some people than others. But many of us have to try to better ourselves in this and many other aspects of life. And the less nastiness and vicious jokes that are flying around, the happier we'll all be.

I really can't understand how people think it's ok to point and laugh at people with a problem, whatever it is. It's not real humour, it's just trying to make yourself feel good by pointing out the people that you perceive to be worse than you – and it's downright disgraceful.

However, reverting back to the OP I still fail to see why an employer should not take an individuals health into account as part of a recruitment process.

How would you do this? Make all potential employees take a full medical before interview? There are lots of 'normal' sized people where I work who take lots of time off with illness. You cannot judge fitness or motivation to do a job based on appearances.

Obesity is just one indicator amongst many that a person may have ongoing health issues. So why should they not take it into consideration as a factor in a reasoned decision making process? That is not to say the sole factor, just one of many.

I imagine that many of these ongoing health issues obese people have would likely be covered by the DDA, or that in some cases the obesity is a result of a condition covered by the DDA, if that is the case then an employer would be breaking the law if they used that as a factor in the decision making process.

Anyone seen some sense of proportions lying discarded around here? I think some have been mislaid recently 🙂

fat people hate themselves

END OF THREAD!

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