are any of those generic carbpn frames any good?

Yes, many of them are – lots of threads on here (and elsewhere) about them.

The summary though is buy from a company that has a good rep and doesn’t try to pretend its products are from another brand eg Pinarello, Cervelo, etc.

Fake Helmets are all over eBay. e.g.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bicycle-Helmet-Bike-Cycling-Adult-Road-Carbon-EPS-Mountain-Safety-Helmets-/261638194832

Ooer – looks like the carbon FSA crankset I bought via Ebay from Taiwan may be fake. When I received it I inspected it closely and it looked too well-made to be fake but them what do I know? The seller had thousands of feedbacks and he told me it was an unwanted “take off” from a new bike.

But it’s the right weight and it’s done a brilliant, reliable job for the last 2000 miles so maybe it’s the real thing…

@thisisnotaspoon

not sure about your claims of fibreglass being used in quality carbon fibre frames?

I’ve spent a considerable amount of time talking to a global brand manager (1 of 6) for the World’s largest bicycle company, who spends much of the year in Taiwan overseeing production processes. This company manufactures for many other “brands” in addition to their own products.

This guy knows every small detail about their frame manufacturing, its a real experience talking to him about bicycle frames whether carbon fibre or aluminium.

I was told their frames use 100% torayca carbon fibre and they actually manufacture their own cloth in their C-Tech facility using torayca filament and their own proprietary resins in a 60/40 cloth/resin balance.

He said that other smaller manufacturers will often mix brands of carbon fibre and use more resin to save money, which ends up being a heavier and / or weaker frame.

I have no reason to doubt this information.

Not doubting your mates spiel and I’m sure he’s telling you for all the right reasons but…

GT’s Grade bike uses glass fibre seatstays.

http://road.cc/content/news/121785-first-ride-gt-grade

super skinny glass-fibre seatstays that flex noticeably when you press down hard on the saddle. This, along with the seat tube and top tube ‘tuned’ to offer a claimed 11mm of deflection,

I’ve spent a considerable amount of time talking to a global brand manager (1 of 6) for the World’s largest bicycle company, who spends much of the year in Taiwan overseeing production processes. This company manufactures for many other “brands” in addition to their own products.

Taiwan don’t make many carbon frames for mass production. It’s mostly done in China except for a bit of production at Great Go.

Biggest manufacturer is XDS in Shenzhen.

Someone on facebook was really excited about the “s works” frame they got from China, carbon frame fork and rims, bought it knowing it was fake “but made from the same moulds” had enough money for dura ace components, but knowingly Importing a fake frame.

What amazed me was:
Knowingly buying a fake
Being proud of it
Not understanding the trade mark infringment is criminal.
No understanding of the legal CE testing requirements.
Not understanding the risks involved.
… And proudly shouting about it on facebook!

If i imported fake frames I would face criminal charges. What if someone got hurt or killed? It’s one thing for a crook to do this to you, but to do it to yourself is so super dumb.

In the shop we get people who don’t understand mechanics. Yesterday someone complained their gears didn’t work after we serviced THE BRAKES. Illustrating they dont understand things “but the gears were fine before I bought it to you” . When folk can be this thick, a workshop can get blamed for anything, so it’s now our policy to refuse to work on on fake bikes.

And finally. When you buy a genuine frame, it’s not just a frame you buy, its a warranty, UK back up, research and development, CE testing, a quality product that won’t kill you. You are also supporting your LBS, so if a consumer steps outside euro counterfeit laws, and euro safety laws to save a few quid… They can step out of my shop too.

support your lbs

but you sell online, taking money from small LBS’s elsewhere 😈

Agreed Charlie, it’s easy to label something like that as Darwinism in action – but that’s exactly what it is!

People who buy “fake” anything need to take a long hard look at themselves and why they are doing it.

Cheap stuff, fine. I like a bargain as much as anyone, but why’s it got to look like you spent more?

When folk can be this thick…

therein lies the problem. One that will never be solved!

I was told their frames use 100% torayca carbon fibre and they actually manufacture their own cloth in their C-Tech facility using torayca filament and their own proprietary resins in a 60/40 cloth/resin balance

Maybe I’m wrong, I’ve not cut up enough bike frames to see, but I’d be surprised. A lot of sailing parts are carbon/glass mixtures, and the manufacturers are happy to shout about it. I suspect it’s a market expectation thing, paying £2k+ for a bike frame you want it to to be dripping in as many buzz words as possible. Whereas sailors maybe as an industry know what goes into the components more, and a lot of kit is advertised as carbon/glass because most know that the 100% carbon parts aren’t durable enough. So:

Engineer : The frame 60% T400, 20% S-Glass for flexibility in the top tube and 20% T700 for BB and headtube stiffness.

Marketer : The frame uses T700 for stiffness and has a tube layup to make it verticaly compliant but lateraly stiff. 100% of our carbon fiber is from Toray.

And you wouldn’t deliberately use more resin, but taking short cuts in the curing process could result in more being left over. Simplisticly the composites layed up in the mould and then squeezed (and vacumed)to draw out as much of the resin as possible. How long you leave it being squeezed before you put it in the oven to cure will influence how light the frame ends up with only minimal effect on it’s strength. The downside is that means your mould is in use for longer so you’re making less frames. That’s wehre I suspect a lot of the the ‘S-works’ and other top frames come from either by design or just natural variations between frames, cetainly remember reading some manufacturers weighed every frame as it came off the poduction line and split them allong the range so the top end bikes got the lightest frames and XTR groupsets, the heavier frames went into lower end LX builds.

Whereas sailors maybe as an industry know what goes into the components more

Not sure about that, maybe less marketing smoke+mirrors in the industry in general though yes. As much weenie-tech ism among boat-owners and cyclists though, as many less-then-athletic guys with carbon/tech everything on their race boats : ) also just as many skilled guys with the fitness and experience, the sort who take handicap races consistently. But you don’t pick a boat up and go ‘oooh, feels a bit heavy..’ (well I guess you could with some..) and you don’t get out of breath when sailing in the same way, it’s more of a skill and experience game than it is physical (relatively) so I’d expect weenie kit or high-end suspension is an easier sell in cycling, it’s easier to believe the gains will increase your performance hence more general waffle surrounding performance claims.

When folk can be this thick…

rule #1 never slag off your customers. Years ago in London I almost said to a bikeshop mechanic ‘sorry do you know what you are doing’? From that day on I did my own mechanics. Sadly recently I let a bikeshop set up my road bike gears for me. I had to reset them properly.

Given that setting up gears is the quintessential 5 minute job, if you’re able to set them up to perfection yourself why didn’t you?

Never touched STI’s/road bike gears before. Wanted to treat myself to a proper bikeshop set up. Funnily I can do it very quickly and smoothly by comparison. Tonight I’ll be finishing my re-powdercoated full sus frame. I’ve saved myself circa £100 extra doing it myself and I know its a labour of love/done and right.

Wow, you are teh awesomez 😛

Its hardly rocket science though. Is it.

Then why “treat yourself to a proper bikeshop setup” (sic) if
A) it’s really easy, and
B) shops are all rubbish (or at least not as good/thorough/gentle and loving as you) anyway?

Same as you deciding to eat out rather than cook tonight, same as you deciding to give your car a full valet, treat yourself, or bother to do something yourself. It was my first brand new bike since 1988. So I thought why not?

Most riders use bikeshops to fit new parts mostly because they don’t want to get their hands dirty or trust themselves. All of them could do the work themselves if need be without a condescending attitude that some have to punters.

Most riders use bikeshops to fit new parts mostly because they don’t want to get their hands dirty or trust themselves. All of them could do the work themselves if need be without a condescending attitude that some have to punters.

I’ll be honest with you,and I know that the interwebz isn’t the best at conveying nuances, but I’m only detecting one condescending attitude here.

Not sure about that, maybe less marketing smoke+mirrors in the industry in general though yes. As much weenie-tech ism among boat-owners and cyclists though, as many less-then-athletic guys with carbon/tech everything on their race boats

I dunno, maybe in some classes more than others, but in general I reckon dinghy sailing is less snobish about equipment, possibly because there’s nowhere to hide poor technique or fitnes as everyone’s out to race, there isn’t a cruising/group ride equivelent, everyone’s out every sunday racing for 2 hours. That and the handicaping system mans if you’ve got £800 to spend you can get a competative Laser, if you’ve £20k you can get a foiling moth.

The fast guys still have the fast boats dripping in new kit, but it’s more for marginal gains against each other, the middle of the fleet guys aren’t so much affected by it. That and the majority of one-design classes puts a limit on what you can realisticly spend.

Would a ‘one-design’ class work in MTB’ing? Rather than have 4 classes for fun, sport, open, elite etc. Have 28lb hardtails, 20lb hardtails 28lb FS, unlimited. Might discourage ATGNI at races and encourage more ‘grass roots’ / ‘have a go’ racing. The fit guys and the pros could fight ti out in the top class, and everyone else would get the race they want without worrying about equipment and would probably sort themselves into evenly matched classes anyway (as no one wants to be the ATGNI guy).