Mrs Breathe is in a fury. A minor bump in the school car park with a fellow parent at what must have been 2mph max has now turned into a whiplash injury claim!

She’s ready to go and report it to the police as an attempted fraud. I’m kinda thinking it might be a waste of time – anyone else has experience do this?

Let the insurance company deal with it.

report it to the insurance fraud bureu, either way your wifes insurance will be going up due to a claim being made.

pointless.

Report it. Tell your insurer you wont agree to the claim. You are disputing a central part of their claim aka speed of impact. Threaten to report them to the insurance ombudsmen and ask the Police for a crime number. Its NOT A CIVIL MATTER iif its attrmpted fraud/gaining money by deception. Dont be put off. Make sure you make a loud comment infront of other parents.

Dont rollover. You win nothing quitting. Drag the claim out.

I can see why people cave in and claim for ‘whiplash’. I recently had a non-fault (on my part) collision which resulted in a bit of damage to the front of my truck. The insurance company have been quite persistent in their attempts to get me to claim for whiplash, numerous phone calls advising me that the other parties’ insurance company will have “set a 4 figure sum aside for any potential injury recieved” etc. The collision did piss me off no end, not to mention the inconvenience of getting my vehicle fixed up, and I can see that many people may consider it as a form of compensation. I’m not trying to justify their actions (the other party in your case) , merely to highlight how some insurance companies seem to treat this.

It’s unfortunate that so many folk see the ££££££ when stuff like this happens. I wouldn’t get too wound up, the insurers are not daft. If you haven’t claimed for such things or haven’t been the hospital, well it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out they are trying it on.

They’ll get nowhere with the claim unless they have indeed been injured. Whiplash does occur at very low speeds too.

I had a car in front stop suddenly for no reason, just after setting off onto a roundabout, and I hit it at low speed. At the time, I thought it was my fault, but my insurance company were suspicious when the driver and passengers all put in whiplash claims, and asked me various questions, then sent an investigator (ex-police) to take a statement that they could use in court if necessary. Looking back at various factors that didn’t make sense, I’m convinced it was a set up. It’s still in dispute (so far as I know still out of court), but my insurance company have been happy to work on my behalf to argue it, and have implied that I’ll get a refund of some of the extra premium I’ve had to pay if it’s demonstrated to be fraud.

My wife recently drove into a back of a car whilst pulling out of a junction.
The driver is not only claiming whiplash .. but also a claimed passenger he says was in car too.
My wife admits 100% to blame for the bump, but she is 100% sure there was no passenger in the other car.
I guess one claim isnt enough for some people.

I’m convinced it was a set up.

Did you see any brake lights? As the usual trick is to swap working ones, with knackered bulbs.

Did you see any brake lights? As the usual trick is to swap working ones, with knackered bulbs.

Genuine query,but how would that work?? The car in front is still at fault as it doesn’t have serviceable brake lights.

That wouldn’t absolve the driver behind from his responsibility to stop in time, it just means both parties have contributed to the collision rather than just one.

easier than that, just pull on hand brake whilst driving, maybe combined with a downshift for rapid speed scrubbing with no brake lights. Some people just deserve to be rammed though and I take great pleasure in following c-spine protocols on minor bumps and having whiplash cars cut open. If a patient says they have neck pain and tingling sensations in limbs, who am i to question it?

Report to insurer, not police.

Let them deal with it

The police aren’t interested, it’s just an insurance matter as far as they’re concerned.

Definitely contest it, these scum shouldn’t be allowed to get away with it.

Your wife should definitely tell her insurers the full fact but there is no point involving the police. They cannot prove that there has been no injury so there has been no crime as far as they are concerned.

If your insurers believe they can prove fraud they may well pursue it but proving fraud is not easy. It is very costly to try to prove that someone has not suffered whiplash (as said above it is possible at low speed) and the courts have traditionally refused to allow insurers to incur costs that vastly exceed the value of the claim trying to do so.

In addition, changes introduced by the Government last year mean that if insurers admit liability and pay up quickly the costs they have to pay to the claimant’s solicitors are miniscule compared to what they used be and to what they would still be if the insurers alleged fraud.

For that reason alone, and for the fact that ultimately it is the insurers who will decide, suggestions that your wife should ‘drag the claim out’ are utter rubbish.

Make sure the insurers understand the facts of the case and let them deal with it. That is after all what you have paid them to do.

Did you see any brake lights? As the usual trick is to swap working ones, with knackered bulbs.

Genuine query,but how would that work?? The car in front is still at fault as it doesn’t have serviceable brake lights

but then in a rear end shunt, the brake lights may well be damaged or fuse out, thats why you need to keep your distance.

its also been known for vehicles to be fitted with brake light disablement switches.

I used to work in the insurance industry, although a large percentage of whiplash probably isn’t real, there isn’t much you can do. If a doctor says they have whiplash (not hard to get) then that is evidence from a medical professional which is very hard to dispute.

If there is a whiplash claim, then I presume the “injured” party has been professionally assessed and the doctors report is available for inspection?

Yes, the injured party will have been assessed by a doctor and obviously the report will be available for entitled parties to see.

If a doctor says they have whiplash (not hard to get) then that is evidence from a medical professional which is very hard to dispute.

crap.

The doctor has only the patients description of the incident and their symptoms to go on- whiplash can’t be seen in and examination, or a scan or a blood test. Thats why its the injury of choice for spurious claims.

However… if you ask the claimant to provide a contact for the doctor that has made the assessment so that you can show that doctor a photograph of the vehicles damaged in the accident…. then the claimant goes all quiet and the claim gets dropped. The claimant will have had to describe a collision far more severe than the one that actually happened to get the diagnosis and speaking to the doctor would make that evident.

So rather than ‘let’ the insurance co deal with it, make them deal with it properly.

Why doesn’t your wife go halves with the other parent on the insurance compo? 😉

Similar point, but not exactly the same. .. I had a cold call from a claims company along the lines of asking me if I want to pursue a claim for whiplash because of the accident I had ….. 2 years ago. Puzzled I was so probed a few questions. It was actually relating a claim that happened when my wife was driving, car insured in her name, me as named driver, and I wasn’t in the car! As soon as mentioned that pursuing a claim would be fraudulent, and their company would be party to the crime, the line when silent…… then dead.

Anyone else had this?

crap.

The doctor has only the patients description of the incident and their symptoms to go on- whiplash can’t be seen in and examination, or a scan or a blood test. Thats why its the injury of choice for spurious claims.

However… if you ask the claimant to provide a contact for the doctor that has made the assessment so that you can show that doctor a photograph of the vehicles damaged in the accident…. then the claimant goes all quiet and the claim gets dropped. The claimant will have had to describe a collision far more severe than the one that actually happened to get the diagnosis and speaking to the doctor would make that evident.

So rather than ‘let’ the insurance co deal with it, make them deal with it properly.

You’ve completely missed my point. I’m not saying what happens is right but what you have described just doesn’t happen in the real world.

Person goes to doctor and says “I’ve had a car crash my neck hurts” so Dr says “you have probably got wiplash”. There is no physical sign of this so cannot use Xrays or anything definitive as proof.

So a few phone pics of tiny dents in bumpers will not hold up in court as proof they didn’t have wiplash against a qualified medical professional’s diagnosis.

Also a doctor will base their diagnosis on what the patient has desribed as being their injury doctors don’t ask you for pictures of where you fell over or what your car looked like after the crash to work out what injuries you have do they?

There “where there’s a blame there’s a claim” thing drives me nuts. I broke my hip on a patch of ice on my parents’ driveway, you’d be amazed the number of people that have told me I should have sued. “It’ll be fine, they’ll claim it under their house insurance”.

You’ve completely missed my point. I’m not saying what happens is right but what you have described just doesn’t happen in the real world.

Person goes to doctor and says “I’ve had a car crash my neck hurts” so Dr says “you have probably got wiplash”. There is no physical sign of this so cannot use Xrays or anything definitive as proof.

So a few phone pics of tiny dents in bumpers will not hold up in court as proof they didn’t have wiplash against a qualified medical professional’s diagnosis.

Also a doctor will base their diagnosis on what the patient has desribed as being their injury doctors don’t ask you for pictures of where you fell over or what your car looked like after the crash to work out what injuries you have do they?

It happens in my real world. No win no fee lawyers work on the basis that they set their claim at less than a value that they think the insurance company will bother to contest. That means theres a fairly slim margin for them if they win, so they have to work on the basis that they’ll have to do pretty much no work to do so. (or more on the basis that the insurance co won’t be prepared to do any work)

In our case just a reply from us saying ‘we’ve got pictures of this accident, we want to talk to the claimants doctor’ wasn’t even worth their time to reply to. What would stand up in court is irrelevant, winning the case isn’t worth their while if they actually have to work to do it. But… the insurance co were more than happy to just roll over in the first instance, we had to press them to act.

The point is you can’t contest whiplash that is why they choose that injury. If it as a broken arm there is an xray which shows they do or do not have a broken arm. Whiplash there is no such luck.

If they have a doctors report (often doctors paid privately by the claims company) then there is not much you can do to avoid paying out, hence why the insurance company will try to settle quickly as if they say that they need a doctors report done, one will be completed and then the value of the claim will go up plus them adding the £200+ doctors fee on the top.

So if they did back out of it you must have just got lucky that the person trying to scam you had a conscience and decided better of lying their way through it.

@ seadog

It’s been covered on here before. c_g has posted some of her experience. AVIVA hit the headlines a few months ago, ‘Which’ mag got interested.

There is no physical sign of this

Yes there is. Muscle spasms, reduced range of movement it’s not too hard to tell who’s faking it and of course tenderness.

A lorry failed to stop at the entrance to the roundabout I was on and went into the side of me at about 20mph. It felt like I’d been thrown into a wall. I couldn’t get out of the car without assistance from the paramedics due to the pain in my back and was in pain for several weeks after. Reaching out with my right arm (for example to pick up the phone at work) often had me wincing in pain. Apparently I had whiplash. I didn’t get much compensation, even though I attended hospital. My recovery was aided by 8 physio sessions.

I don’t know how much people are getting for these injuries, but I didn’t get a lot – especially given the disruption to my work and life. I’d be interested to know.

There is no physical sign of this

My daughter got whiplash last week on her childminders trampoline. We were in hospital next day just to check it wasn’t anything more serious. The big muscle on one side of her neck was rock solid, it was obvious to me, a non medic, that she had an injury.

FWIW, it never crossed my mind to sue the childminder, although I guess others would consider this.

I don’t know how much people are getting for these injuries, but I didn’t get a lot – especially given the disruption to my work and life. I’d be interested to know.

Over 20 years ago I got £2.5k for whiplash. I was in pain for a couple years on off with it and limited movement for about a week, mind it was months probably nearer a year before I was sent for an examination but my own Dr had diagnosed it for within a few days of it happening. He know that there was signs and symptoms being a Dr and all.

What wiggles says is spot on. Whiplash injuries are frequently, and easily, faked. Most GPs will diagnose whiplash without hesitation when someone complains of a sore neck following an RTA. The doctors instructed as medical experts by claimants’ solicitors have a vested interest in providing an opinion supporting the claim. If they are instructed after the claimant has recovered there will be nothing to find on examination anyway. Reports are essentially based on the claimant’s description and the court’s accept them as evidence. It’s as simple as that.

The fact that maccruiskeen managed to defeat an obviously fraudulent claim (a phantom passenger claim from what I can see) does not alter that fact.

The regime imposed by the Government for PI claims is designed to force insurers to pay up fast and cheap, not contest claims unless they have evidence which they are confident a court will accept and insurers and their lawyers know that most judges simply believe what claimant’s say.

As for what whiplash is worth, these are the current guidelines set for the courts:

(i) Where a full recovery takes place within a period of about one to two years. This bracket will also apply to short-term acceleration and/or exacerbation injuries, usually between one to two years.

In the region of £3,520 to £6,380

(ii) Where a full recovery takes place within a period of several months and a year. This bracket will also apply to very short-term acceleration and/or exacerbation injuries, usually less than one year.

In the region of £1,705 to £3,520

(iii) Where a full recovery is made within a period of a few days, a few weeks or a few months.

A few hundred pounds to £1,705

Fake car crashes helped to push the level of insurance fraud to a record £1.3bn in 2013, according to the Association of British Insurers (ABI).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27608316

The doctor has only the patients description of the incident and their symptoms to go on- whiplash can’t be seen in and examination, or a scan or a blood test. Thats why its the injury of choice for spurious claims.

They also have their objective examination to go on. If I couldn’t see whiplash in an examination I’d remove myself from the register.

no personal experience, only second hand

A colleague from previous job had a (motor)bike accident – just put it down on a roundabout IIRC. No third party involved.

Short time after, insurance rings up.

Summary of conversation:

“fancy some cash?”
“er, yes please”

Some time later, some cash showed up.

He bought another bike with it.

Not sure I was entirely cool with it, because everyone’s premuim goes up as a result, but TBH, what would I say in the same circumstance? I’m not 100% sure I would turn it down.

Insurers just pay out for whiplash claims and budget for it in the premiums. It’s too expensive to contest each case, so it’s an easy scam which seems to work.

We had that in heathrow car park. So minor there was the faintest of bumps and not even a scratch. Next thing 5 people claiming whiplash! Insurance dealt with it, but you can see the expense; bloke had to drive around the country to see both parties. It does boil my piss as someone who has been in 4 serious RTA before the days of claim culture. Whiplash is no joke.