Start how you mean to go on?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-talks-opening-position-papers-government-yet-to-send-submit-latest-news-a7792531.html

Presumably it’s a tactical move to keep the EU on their toes?

“Business opportunities in the commonwealth countries”. Yes. But has he tried them?

Canada – we tried that. Shafted, suspected corruption at local political / business levels. Not really a replacement for the ease of dealing with the EU.
India – bureaucracy which makes the complained about EU red tape look trivial. Great to be there but EU wasn’t stopping us.

Non Commonwealth:
Middle East? Already can and do.
Far East? Already can and do.
USA? Already can and do.
Africa? Bit like India, but with added spice of regional conflict.

Really not seeing where we can make up for pissing off the EU. High margin, easy & relatively cheap transport, stable legal environment.

There aren’t any countries we can’t already go to and any benefits of changing the relationships there are outweighed by the additional costs almost certainly coming to deal with EU.

I can only assume Andy thinks he is Tom Hollander playing Prince Mark.

Looks like a packed week of negotiations next week (one day).

UK to agree Brexit divorce bill before trade talks – EU sources

slowoldman – You just beat me to posting that link.

Can’t wait for the brexiteering cheerleaders to start frothing at the mouth!

I’m now just hoping lib dems will prop up the tories providing we get a second referendum… 🙂 Yes I know this is staggering unlikely but I can but hope!

Our government is so obviously dysfunctionality right now + with clueless idiots like May & Davis in charge, maybe the EU will take pity on us?

Our government is so obviously dysfunctionality right now + with clueless idiots like May & Davis in charge, maybe the EU will take pity on us?

By invading the UK and installing a government not entirely made of cretins? Fingers crossed 🙂

although as THM would point

Oi, you can’t (mis)-quote me, I don’t post here anymore 😉

😳

THM – please do post. It’s genuinely good to see you back.

Seconded. You may not always be right THM but at least you know something about economics! I value your posts.

Nice holiday THM ? Any Hankley riding 🙂 ?

Kind words ^ thank you. Waves back.

Been riding more on the dark side recently ATP not much MTB and only dogging dog walking on Hankley. Interetsingly, ruled out the new Roubaix on demo two weeks ago as hated it. Nice long demo down to Goodwood on it though. Hate sportive bikes it turns out!!

On train tonight so dipped in to have a look. Not a return though for good reasons. – have fun weekends.

John Redwood, whose crimes against logic are surely by now the subject of a class-action suit by the Vulcan species

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/16/exciting-brexit-future-all-rubbish-bits-past-david-davis?CMP=share_btn_tw

Although a great read that Guardian link above is hugely saddening as much of it is no doubt right and will be proven so in time.

Once it’s too late.

Meanwhile in downtown Germany:

Indeed, the party of Winston Churchill and Margaret Thatcher has turned into a gaggle of high rollers and unwitting clowns.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/death-of-brexit-at-the-hands-of-theresa-may-a-1152330-amp.html

You are making a very grave mistake tmh

I saw the deliberate false briefings started from the EU, “UK has agreed to discuss exit bill before trade”

I don’t expect any real news from these talks until after the German elections

As an aside the Labour Party’s manifesto commitment to allow all EU citizens to remain in the UK post Brexit would not meet the EU’s stated requirement which is for all EU citizens who have ever lived in the UK the right to remain / retrurn, dor thei family members to join them and for their unborn children to have th right to remain. Also the ECJ should have jurisdiction over their rights until they pass away.

Blah blah blah blah blah 🙄

I would hope it does include at least some rights for those who have lived here (or Brits who have previously lived in the EU. I for one have 5 years worth of pension contributions in the German system I am entitled to one day. Not a huge amount but will make up for the shortfall in my UK contributions over the same period. Losing them because I no longer live in Germany would be criminal. Likewise if an EU citizen has worked in the UK and paid their NI they too should be entitled to their pro rata share of a state pension.

So, these Brexit negotiations, are the tories bringing their crack A-team, you know the ones that have just dispatched the DUP 10 votes tie up deal to shore up their minority government (who are unionists and should be pre-disposed to their ideology in the first place) in record time?

Lets face, it we’re ****!

dont worry greece will have exploded, the Euro gone, France will have a more anti EU leader and so will germany so the negotiations will be very easy for our crack team oh and of course they need us more than we need them and WTO will be just brilliant so does it really matter anyway

Kier Starmer is daft. Of course the EU isn’t going to reform THE single market to permit us tariff free access.

Andrew Marr tries to decipher what The Labour Party's position…

"I'm going to have one last go, because the The Labour Party position is clear as mud on the Single Market." Andrew Marr puts it to Keir Starmer

Posted by BrexitCentral on Sunday, June 18, 2017

Blah blah blah blah blah

Another stunningly valuable contribution from you Pigface

David Davis.

What could possibly go wrong?

jambalaya – Member

Blah blah blah blah blah

Another stunningly valuable contribution from you Pigface[/quote]

It’s still significantly more useful than anything you’ve posted, Jamby

and briefer and more factually accurate

How can he post what he doe son here and then get upset that is he not taken seriously or his opinion respected

Another stunningly valuable contribution from you Pigface

As Zokes says makes more sense than your usual contribution

Kier Starmer is daft.

What does that make you?

150

😆

Kier Starmer is daft. Of course the EU isn’t going to reform THE single market to permit us tariff free access.

I think Jambalaya is right. We’re heading for hard Brexit. Everything else is just wishful thinking.

Note that I am *not* saying that a hard Brexit is a good thing.

they need us more than we need and we will get a trade deal …shall i reference you saying that for you Jambers?

I agree we wont get this and we never were going to get this
We could never leave and have a better deal than in.

the problem is this is not what vote leave nor he was saying prior to the vote it is what stay was saying would happen.

He is right but only after being wrong for years on this and “forgetting” what he originally said

It might just be me as well but if Davis or a tory had said it i rather feel like he would be praising it as achievable and proof of something or other as his principles appear very fluid.

Ah deadly still dragging up a post from 3 weeks before the election amdnone I revised downwards.

85% of people voted for a Brexit I support, no freedom of movement, no membership of /access to THE single market and no customs union.

@zokes if you and others had paid more attention to what I was posting and the issues raised maybe Remain might have won. Remain failed totally to do so hence the 85% of votrs at the GE being cast for Brexit Manifestos.

Blah blah blah blah

The whole “no deal is better than a bad deal” guff that was spouted by Theresa Gray was just an amateurish attempt to soften up the British public for the inevitable failure of the negotiations.

85% of people voted for a Brexit I support, no freedom of movement, no membership of /access to THE single market and no customs union.

No, absolute ******** a large number of people voted for the whoever they felt would represent them best, May asked for a mandate to negotiate she lost, people are sick and tired of austerity. Further of the choices who is going to fail in brussels, quite clearly the tory party is way out of its depth. Being blunt there was very little mention of brexit during the election.

Welcome to a two party system where you vote for the least worst option. If Kensington votes Labour what does that say about the Tory party.

Ah deadly still dragging up a post from 3 weeks before the election amdnone I revised downwards.

still trying to rewrite history with your falsehoods. you said at the time it remains 50-100 didnt you. No one defended how you reacted to that as it was shameless and frankly a little embarrassing. Even folk who appeared to know you in the real world admonished you. its up to you whether you reflect on that and learn.

85% of people voted for a Brexit I support, no freedom of movement, no membership of /access to THE single market and no customs union.

Did i miss another referendum? they voted for parties who support that position, to various degrees, they did not vote for Brexit. There is spin and then there is BS this is BS
As i said i voted labour but am not pro brexit.

@zokes if you and others had paid more attention to what I was posting and the issues raised maybe Remain might have won.

BRILLIANT if you had paid more attention you would not have claimed 50-100 as you had already said so please dont give us lectures on paying attention you cannot even remember what you said.

Remain failed totally to do so hence the 85% of votrs at the GE being cast for Brexit Manifestos.

Well done you managed to phrase it correctly but the reason is false…small steps eh small steps

I love the way Jamba pulls figures out of the air to try and back his cause. Funny how 51.8% last year to leave is now 85% for a hard brexit. You just couldn’t make it up…. Oh.

He lives on a different planet from me.

So. Our crack negotiating team, they done the DUP 10 yet? Jeez, after that Brexit is going to be a breeze…

And no deal better than a bad deal. Here’s the thing, no deal is literally the worst you can get. Unless our fearless champs of negotiations can royally **** things really badly… Oh, sorry. I get you now. No deal it is then 😯

I love the way Jamba pulls figures out of the air to try and back his cause. Funny how 51.8% last year to leave is now 85% for a hard brexit.

He also came out with the same BS a week ago and was put straight then. It really is pointless engaging with him and I really don’t see why anyone bothers.

And no deal better than a bad deal. Here’s the thing, no deal is literally the worst you can get. Unless our fearless champs of negotiations can royally **** things really badly… Oh, sorry. I get you now. No deal it is then

How many countries on earth have no trade deals, remember we are going from 100’s to ZERO. Really going to help the UK economy.

Look at the Labour position, jobs matter, and the Tory position we’ll create a tax haven.

Which do you think is preferable for the vast majority?

@kerley: I was talking about him, not to him… 😆

After his little tirade about the republican shooting the other day, I’m not engaging with him. A line (of common decency) has been crossed.

@mrmo: ?

My point is that the crack negotiations team is so shit that they can’t even get the worst deal, no, they have to go worse than that… Don’t think I’m endorsing the useless **** (or brexit) because I’m not!