One day I’ll teach you to read like a big person, then you might understand, otherwise you’ll be kept in the dark.
Clue, there are two references.

Lords have restored my faith a little! Now lets see TM strip the HoL in revenge later.

Thanks, can’t wait.

Out of interest how many times does the word Brexit appear in the link you posted? I guess it must be quite a lot…

Out of interest how many times does the word Brexit appear in the link you posted? I guess it must be quite a lot…

I hadn’t realised that you needed things spelling out in big letters, you really have learnt well from chewkw, haven’t you? Poor little thickie. I’d be more sympathetic towards you, but I can’t be arsed.

5? 10?

Can’t be difficult to count….obviously it is for a thicky like me, so any help welcome…

😆

Surely it’s becoming evident to even the terminally dense (and we all know how they voted) that companies like Ford and Nissan see the utter stupidity of Brexit as either an opportunity to cut their losses, and bugger off from the impending economic catastrophe, or an opportunity to (seriously!) cut their costs.

Something is going to have to compensate them for those new tariffs. So they’ll stay on condition of serious savings in other areas. Hmmmmm …. I wonder where those economies will be achieved? Once an ultra right wing Tory government is freed from the constraints of EU Legislation?

It wouldn’t be anything as mercenary as Jettisoning workers rights, and environmental and all manner of other industry regulation, then massively reducing corporate taxation, would it?

The most staggering thing about this somewhat obvious progression is that the present labour leader – the very epitome of the words ‘terminallly dense’ put a 3 line whip in so his MP’s waved it through

You really couldn’t make it up

mrmo – Member
Lords have restored my faith a little! Now lets see TM strip the HoL in revenge later.

😆 Bye bye Lords coz you have just voted against the people will.

This time they have overstepped their boundary and it is a brilliant excuse to completely reduce them to ceremonial duty.

The Lords are not elected by the people so it’s time they just present themselves as tourist attraction. 😆

get a room you two

(um…I mean thm and captainsquit of course)

Of they use Brexshit to pressure Gov to give further incentives.

Loads of lobbying to come all surrounded by Brexshit BS

Binners he was a remainer and he is asking his party to resect the democratic process -plus to his credit he is refusing to bow down to the xenophobes and their immigration BS

And something that shouldn’t be forgotten with all this Brexit insanity, just how is local social care doing? How about the NHS? What about the quality of education in some schools???

mrmo – Member
And something that shouldn’t be forgotten with all this Brexit insanity, just how is local social care doing? How about the NHS? What about the quality of education in some schools???

brexit is an insanely complicated blackhole,

it will take decades to untangle the many aspects of EU integration, its way beyond the capabilities of our MPs and the civil service has its biggest task ever to sort this crap out

so this black hole will suck in all the governments focus for decades to come

Brexit is complicated? 😛

Of course not. 😆 It is only the madness of trying to hang on to the EU bureaucratic system that is creating all the complication. Absolutely madness.

Binners he was a remainer and he is asking his party to resect the democratic process -plus to his credit he is refusing to bow down to the xenophobes and their immigration BS

Are you here all week? He like the current PM were of the slightly if we really have to be in public remain type, got any great passionate defence of the eu type moments from either.
Democracy is also what happens at Westminster,good on the Lords for showing a bit of human decency and trying to stop people being made bargaining chips in a negotiation a d trying to respect families and remove some massive stress from their lives.

Letwin on C4 News agreeing that the cost to leave could be greater than the cost to stay (lump sum, lump sum ongoing payments and ongoing payments)…

#brexitcarriesongiving

I know it’s only a small point but:

Government defeated on Brexit bill

Letwin on C4 News agreeing that the cost to leave could be greater than the cost to stay (lump sum, lump sum ongoing payments and ongoing payments)…

So let me get this straight, Brexit costs more, reduces civil service capabilty, doesn’t reduce immigration, doesn’t result in any greater sovereignty, won’t make us personally richer, has increased racism and xenophobia….

So what positives do we have?

And i really shouldn’t read some comments on the HoL vote, how dare they try and go against the will of the people etc. How dare they show any compassion to foreigners, etc.

Back to feeling depressed about the scum that i share this country with.

b r – Member
Letwin on C4 News agreeing that the cost to leave could be greater than the cost to stay (lump sum, lump sum ongoing payments and ongoing payments)…

What a dummy that Letwin is … Nothing last forever so no matter what payment eventually it will come to an end, just like the 43 years in the EU bureaucratic system. Cost of 43 years in EU bureaucratic system vs cost of what time frame … 43 years? What not wait for 43 years to decide rather than mouthing off rubbish that has no value whatsoever.

slowoldman – Member

I know it’s only a small point but:

Government defeated on Brexit bill

It’s a brilliant excuse now to curb the Lords … waste of public money.

Time for them to earn their keep by being the tourist attraction.

What a bunch of non-elected nonsense.

Good for the HoL. Morally important, tactically irrelevant. Makes us all feel better.

Then we simply carry on as before.

When it comes to the real thing, rights of citizens is never going to be in doubt. Both sides have completely aligned interests.

When it comes to the real thing, rights of citizens is never going to be in doubt. Both sides have completely aligned interests.

This is the thing, it creates a lot of good will, i see no way that 3M can actually be deported, so might as well be upfront and clear and frame the debate about how you respect the rights of those who are here.

Some really crap bickering and insulting each other on here. Please stop.

Anyway. Interesting thought earlier – if the country does go to the dogs because of Brexit, most brexiteers won’t believe that (they’ll be in denial) so they’ll have no-one else to blame but May. Could result in a kicking at the next GE perhaps?

When it comes to the real thing, rights of citizens is never going to be in doubt. Both sides have completely aligned interests.

Which so far has not made a difference to the people it impacts, simply writing that into the bill would do and make things much easier for people planning university and schools for their kids or trying to secure a house.

as the line goes

the road to hell is paved with good intentions

(partially) True mrmo.

We shall see if it makes any practical difference. Ping pong anyone?

When it comes to the real thing, rights of citizens is never going to be in doubt.

There is doubt right now, and we should remove it. People don’t know for sure if they will be able to stay here (even when they have family and work here). People are leaving, taking their skills and family with them, or jumping through beaucratic hoops (with a 25% failure rate) in order to keep their right to stay. All avoidable damage to people’s lives, and the U.K. as a whole.

What a bunch of non-elected nonsense.

They act as a moderator on the “confederacy of amateurs” in the lower chamber.

Anyway. Interesting thought earlier – if the country does go to the dogs because of Brexit, most brexiteers won’t believe that (they’ll be in denial) so they’ll have no-one else to blame but May. Could result in a kicking at the next GE perhaps?

No, I think you will find some brexiters so far in denial that what ever happens it won’t be brexits fault. We can only know one outcome, we can model plenty of others, but they involve experts… So because what you experience can not be framed against an alternative it is quite easy to look for reasons that don’t fit your opinion.

If for example there is a 5% reduction in GDP, that won’t be brexits fault, it will be foreigners not buying British stuff. If there is a return to the troubles in NI it won’t be because a hard border has been imposed, it will be because foreigners refused to allow the porous border to continue. Any issue in Gibraltar will be Spains fault, etc etc etc.

I think you will find some brexiters so far in denial that what ever happens it won’t be brexits fault.

That’s what I said.

They could decide to blame May for not managing it properly rather than the project itself.

This is the thing, it creates a lot of good will, i see no way that 3M can actually be deported, so might as well be upfront and clear and frame the debate about how you respect the rights of those who are here.

Which is all very well until the EU don’t agree to respect of our citizens rights until we have agreed a leaving bill in isolation of the future arrangements. It is a negotiation, you don’t concede a point unless you are receiving a concession. We offered to take it off the table, our offer was rejected.

Well we are merely showing our lack of experience in negotiation mefty. Tactically inept, true, but we now have a warm glowing feeling inside.

Let’s see what happens in HoC now….

Perhaps when assigning blame we should look in the mirror first. Who lost the easy argument? Who is now trying to obstruct the process? Who is being responsible?

warm glowing feeling

Which is of course fantastic for funding hospitals, social care etc, bugger the money, we are on the moral high ground, shame it is in the middle of a quarry.

Anyway surely Brexit ping pong should be called whiff whaff.

😀

Which is all very well until the EU don’t agree to respect of our citizens rights until we have agreed a leaving bill in isolation of the future arrangements. It is a negotiation, you don’t concede a point unless you are receiving a concession.

Even if other countries choose to withdraw rights held by UK citizens, we should still tell people currently living and working here perfectly legally that they can stay post Brexit, and, in fact, that we value them and want them to stay. Doing so is entirely in the interests of this country, and is an opportunity for us to grab, not a price of negotiations.

Which is all very well until the EU don’t agree to respect of our citizens rights until we have agreed a leaving bill in isolation of the future arrangements. It is a negotiation, you don’t concede a point unless you are receiving a concession. We offered to take it off the table, our offer was rejected.

I always thought that the UK was a pretty accepting and overall alright place which is why so many people wanted to come here. Taking the high ground and saying we will not punish anyone who already live in the UK just because they are not from here is a welcome change to a lot of the hate that seems to be out there. If we want to pretend we are in control of the situation and are global leaders it is a good start.

When it comes to the real thing, rights of citizens is never going to be in doubt. Both sides have completely aligned interests.

Well, you say that, but it would be handy to know if MrsJ should unpack her suitcases, or if she should leave them as is while waiting for a knock on the door from Theresa’s storm-troopers.

I have packed some boxes and I am not undoing them for sure 😀

DrJ – we have a spare bedroom to hide her (both of you) in if it kicks off. I’m sure others will do the same.
According to the vote half (possibly more) of the country aren’t racist gits.

i see no way that 3M can actually be deported

Is it really only 3 million? All depends how far back you go and on what grounds doesn’t it?

For example, mother and father in law both from Belgium but have been in UK since 1960’s. Are they on the deportation list?
My wife is Belgian and been here since 1970’s (was born in Belgium) and is married to me (UK citizen). IS she on the deportation list?

Are the 3 people above on that 3 million?

Kerley, basically depends on whether they are British citizens or not.

I’m thinking my sister in law and her daughte( my niece) has quite possibly lost her right to live in the U.K. Said she had ILR but has been out of the country for long enough for a zealous border guard could just take it off her next time she tries to visit. As in that recent case in the news.