I started to enjoy coffee, and at highstreet shops coffee quality is inconsistent flavour wise, so it’s time to think about home system once more.

My thoughts are, get Baratza/Mahlkonig Vario grinder and try to source second hand Gaggia Classic or Rancilio Silvia machine to fit into my budget.

I had nespresso machine before so don’t fancy that route.

What are your thoughts STW coffee gurus? Please share your knowledge …

Gaggia classic with rancillo steam wand mod, and one of these:

Linky

if you can stretch to it then a Mahlkonig vario, much more control than the ibertial, quieter and less counter space, it also has zero grind retention and doesn’t clump or send the coffee everywhere. i recommend the MC2 at its price point though. the other option is a Compak K3 touch. big burrs and probably a step up in grind quality but it’s a big grinder.

I’ve always wanted a Rancilio Silvia. Never been able to read a review of a coffee machine for more than 2 sentences before I wanted to kill the author though so cant give you details other than they look beautiful.

I’d get a B2C machine for that budget

I’m currently giving these serious consideration for a combined price of £580

http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/espresso-machines/quick-mill-820-espresso-coffee-machine-black.html

http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/eureka-mignon-instantaneo-grinder-auto-manual-gloss-black.html

Also have the Silvia itch, but resisting the temptation to spend a *bit* more – probly double… The coffeeupgradeitis is much worse than bikeupgradeitis for me

This is in classifieds

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/fs-ot-delonghi-primadonna-avant-6700-bean-to-cup-coffee-machine

I picked up an ex dem Macap M4 off Evilbay for about £250 a couple of years ago that plus a Rancilio Silvio is about the best home combo going. Might just bust your budget by a bit but bolleaux, get it spent 🙂

I got my Silvia and Rancillio Grinder for just under £400 (grinder off ebay for £90), great setup and hasnt let me down in 2 years of daily service.

Coffee Italia have some good package deals, I got our Isomac from there and had no problems with them.
http://www.coffeeitalia.co.uk/products.php?cat=138
I’d be tempted to save a little more and go for a Rancilio Silvia package if I was you, if not then one of the Gaggia Classic packages.

I’d get a B2C machine for that budget

I suppose it depends on what the OP is after. At that price you would still get a half decent setup that will make excellent quality coffee and milk but it will probably be a little bit more involving to get right than something fancier- The Silvia for example is known to be a little temperamental but excellent in the right hands. As long as you are not buying this expecting to become a barista god overnight then you’ll be happy, but if you don’t want to put the effort in to learn how to get the most out of the machine then a B2C might be a safer bet.

Popstar – I’ve used a Rancillio Silvia with a Rancillio Rocky grinder daily for the last 5 years and it has not missed a beat (maybe jinxed myself there!). Excelent, consistent coffee and good milk too. It can also be serviced with a spanner and a screwdiver if necessary – proper old school quality machines.

That said, I think the two may come in above £500. If you don’t want to spend that much, my advice (and that of the guy who taught my barista course) is to save money on the espresso machine and get a realy good grinder. I got decent espresso from an £80 al-cheapo unit (until it broke after 2 years) provided I got the grind right.

Tenacious Doug’s right though – manual machines depend on you knowing what you are doing to make good coffee. There’s loads of advice and how-to vidoes on the web if you’re intereted to learn.

Thing is with Silvia, it costs. I just have sourced Gaggia Classic 2nd hand off eBay for £90. In my eyes it’s not a bad start .

Now I found out that Rancilio Rocky = Gaggia MDF. Good midrange grinders for espresso, but my wife is not into quality espresso so woman likes coarser grinds. According to power of e-net, M Vario is good bet for our family needs.

Unfortunately Vario are rare on 2nd hand market, so looks like I need to source it new. Mazzer grinders look sexy but boy do they cost.

The Silvia will be the better machine by some measure, based on second hand experience of each (my Dad has the Gaggia and I’ve been served coffee from a Silvia), but at that price it might be a good shout and leave a significant budget for a decent grinder.
The Vario is a great grinder, it’s what we have and have used with zero problems for 3 years. It’s capable of grinding fine enough and consistently enough for machines far superior to the Silvia, works perfectly with our Isomac Zaffiro. I can’t recommend it highly enough.

warton – Member
Gaggia classic with rancillo steam wand mod, and one of these:

Linky
This. Have this exact setup got the gaggia classic off here for under a ton and the iberital grinder off happy donkey which is a fantastic consistent grinder!!

Vario grinder, Moka pot and a small cafetière to ‘froth’ milk after a quick blast in a microwave! Seriously, imo, this is the ‘best’ home set up. Use the rest of the cash to buy great beans and an aero press . For me, the pleasure in a home brew is producing the consistently best coffee in the simplest way. Espresso machines aren’t necessary the best home brew method, they just suit commercial environments (time, efficiency and consistency) .

Having said all that, it’s super fun to play barista at home!

Vario grinder, Moka pot and a small cafetière to ‘froth’ milk after a quick blast in a microwave! Seriously, imo, this is the ‘best’ home set up. Use the rest of the cash to buy great beans and an aero press . For me, the pleasure in a home brew is producing the consistently best coffee in the simplest way. Espresso machines aren’t necessary the best home brew method, they just suit commercial environments (time, efficiency and consistency) .

What’s to stop you doing all of the above, plus have an expensive machine? I do all of the above plus Chemex or V60 depending on what I feel like….apart from frothy milk from a cafetiere of course, that’s just weird!

Tenacious Doug – nothing I guess. I’m just saying ‘bang for buck’ I think a Moka pot is a great home brew method , or Indeed any of the ones you mention. I’ve not got much experience with domestic espresso machines, but i imagine for that couple of brews a day you don’t want to be throwing espressos away until you get dial in. I think there are more forgiving methods than a home espresso machine. Anyway , making and drinking coffee is great so whatever it takes!

Ps try the milk in the microwave to about 55 and then agitated in the cafetière (about 10 plunges) – you’ll stuggle (well, I do) to do any doodling but it makes a cracking cappuccino style drink – honest 😉

I’ve not got much experience with domestic espresso machines

Then how can you say a stove top is “seriously” the best home set-up? It’s not an espresso machine and doesn’t produce espresso. Like the post above I too have an aeropress, French press, stovetop as well as a gaggia and grinder.
They all produce different kinds of coffee but if you want an espresso then you can’t make one without a machine producing 9bar of pressure.
The classic is the best bang for buck home espresso machine, it’s tweakable, easy to learn how to use and all the spares are available to keep it running and easy to work on if you want to DIY plus the group head is chromed machine brass unlike a lot of budget machines.

I don’t think the 2 are particularly comparable, totally different styles, if I want an espresso based I want an espresso based, not some ghetto thing made with a Moka pot and a microwave…..not that there’s anything wrong with a Moka pot, but it’s not the same thing. It’s like someone coming on and asking for advice on a full sus trail bike and being recommended a hardtail SS (though that does happen!).

Regards dialling in a shot, if you consistently use the same or similar beans, it becomes pretty easy to consistently pull good shots without major adjustments, to be honest I get about as many dud shots from my machine as I do dud Aeropress or Chemex brews from having to adjust for different beans, and presumably you do from your Moka.

I too have the Gaggia classic and iberital mc2 combo. Spent a nice couple of hours today giving the Gaggia a thorough service and scale and backflush. Also ordered about £65 worth of happy donkey Brazilian blend which I guess shows me up to be a complete coffee Philistine doesn’t it Mr Smith? But hey ho I can’t get used to having mine without sugar. Maybe that’s got something to do with using a triple basket in my bottomless filter…

Lelit Anita was what I was about to buy, but I fixed my old Breville.

I guess shows me up to be a complete coffee Philistine doesn’t it Mr Smith?

? does it?
i wouldn’t know, i just buy Ethiopian heirloom cup of excellence coffee and not worry about what beans other people buy as I’m not the one drinking it.

Tenacious D – the styles are different but similar. The main difference is amount / precise control of pressure , water temp and contact time. Consistency and control of these variables ensures consistency and is the reason commercial machines cost ££££. I don’t believe these are consistently controlled in a domestic machine (not just for reasons of machine quality but environmental changes and natural variation in beans that require small adjustment intraday).

Therefore I’d recommend a Moka pot over a home espresso machine as it will produce a consistently better drink ( but you’re right, not strictly an espresso – but I’m not convinced a home machine / environment produces one either) .

I get what you’re saying about wanting a full sus and someone saying get a hard tail but I think this is more like some saying I want a £250 full sus and then someone recommending a second hand hard tail as a better option at that price.

Ps in a nice way, if you want to try a perfectly extracted espresso* I’m happy to knock one out for you or indeed you can have a play on some commercial equipment. The only caveat is you need to be in Bradford / Halifax area.

*not saying you don’t do one 😉

Whats the difference between a Gaggia Classic I & II? I want to avoid the problems (disappointment) that I had with a Gaggia Cubika.

But even with a synesso/strada/arduino, Ek43, reverse osmosis water and good beans you can still be served a poor shot by some hipster barista who’s thinking about their next tattoo and dreaming of winning the WBC instead of taking care making your coffee.
I get to try a lot of coffee in a numerous cafes and consistency isn’t always guaranteed compared to what I make at home because although I’m using cheap domestic equipment it’s just one drink I’m making and you get to know what gives good results through using the machine and seeing what works best.
The OP wanted a home espresso machine (which it looks like he has made the right purchase already) not a stovetop or the offer of shot pulled on £12k of equipment, neither will fulfil his needs.

Back on topic, make sure you throw away the pressurised ‘crema device’ basket that comes with the machine and use the proper double basket that you can easily pick up online if it doesn’t come with one (new machines don’t), if you want a cheap but good tamper that fits well then I reccomend the motta ones which I think are about £17 the plastic one that comes with the machine is rubbish.

Whats the difference between a Gaggia Classic I & II? I want to avoid the problems (disappointment) that I had with a Gaggia Cubika.

Think it’s a 3way solenoid/over pressure valve.
Group head on cubika is aluminium and eventually breaks, it’s chromed brass on the classic.

Cheers Gary 😀

Is the mod easy to fit? I’ll get a classic bought (again- my last one seized up in London).

Yes but not with your previous mechanical history and fat fingers.

Hora, apparently GClassic 1 is made in Italy (up to 2009 year), while 2 in (EU) Romania with few improvements thrown in.

Is http://www.myespresso.co.UK good place to buy coffee grinder from?

Mr Smith, I had adventure with that fancy crema gimmick spraying coffee all over the place by forgetting installing that plastick bit between.

Wife laughed at my purchase, Anne said how ugly was that machine. Woman said she wanted one of those fancy mini ddeLonghi from JL.

Ah I was confusing the old machines with a metal swirly badge on the left (called classic gaggia) and different buttons not a pre phillips take-over machine, if it’s a gaggia classic of any vintage it should have an OPV

Do your research on that retailer, there was one which was meant to be a bit shonky but I can’t remember the name, coffeehit and bellabarista are very good, alchemy coffee is where I purchased my mahlkonig from.

absuk – Member

Ps in a nice way, if you want to try a perfectly extracted espresso* I’m happy to knock one out for you or indeed you can have a play on some commercial equipment. The only caveat is you need to be in Bradford / Halifax area.

How are you going to do that with your moka pot? Espresso is espresso, moka pot isn’t no matter how much you like it.

You can produce very good espresso at home and you don’t need to agonise over every little detail for each shot, I do it all the time. Whether it’s the ‘best’ is a bit like arguing over what hifi setup produces the ‘best’ sound.

ABSUK- I get where you’re coming from but there is a massive variation in “home” machines, we’re not talking about a £200 Delonghi out of John Lewis here (let’s say the £250 full sus equivalent), certainly when you get to Silvia level and above, with a decent grinder, it is generally accepted you should be able to knock out near “professional” standard shots for 1-2 drinks at a time, which is more than sufficient for home use. Where it obviously falls down is the ability to do multiple or back to back shots, steam at the same time, need to temperature surf etc, which is a pain at first put once learned it is easy to pull consistently.

Our Isomac Zaffiro home machine consistently pulls better shots than several cafes I’ve been into equipped with much superior machines, and the reviews on the likes of coffee geek back up that even in professional hands, a well operated Marzocco Linea will be pushed hard by a high standard home machine for single shots at a time.

ps. Thanks for the offer, but I’m miles away and I’ll be really pissed off if I travel all the way to you to find that you actually pull a rubbish shot despite your lovely equipment 😉 Plus i’ve got a nice commercial machine to play with in the office, and I still think that it’s little better than what I can achieve at home!

Is http://www.myespresso.co.UK good place to buy coffee grinder from?

Do your research on that retailer, there was one which was meant to be a bit shonky but I can’t remember the name

Good advice; I’ve been looking at machine/grinder retailers a lot lately and sadly that ? very well priced site doesn’t appear to do customer service.

Excuse my ignorance but (no troll here, genuinely interested):

I can understand why a grinder makes such a difference

But what makes a £200 Delonghi (which above is quoted as being the Argos full-sus bike equiv i.e not really fit for purpose, I wouldn’t go Mtb on a £250 mtb bike, but I would drink coffee from a £200 coffee machine) so much worse or different than a £800-1200 machine as listed some of these posts, which look very heavy duty.

Far enough if you are making hundreds of coffees a day.

But if you a making 1 double shot of coffee twice a day, then that is light use. So all it has to do is produce a steady supply of steam under pressure for 25 seconds.

But if you a making 1 double shot of coffee twice a day, then that is light use. So all it has to do is produce a steady supply of steam under pressure for 25 seconds.

What I’m really looking for is a very reliable machine to do just this – I only drink espresso and not a silly amount – top quality built machines seem to have to have whistles & bells that I’m not after which, obviously, means they cost lots.

I might just up my budget for a seriously good grinder and stick with a stovetop.

But if you a making 1 double shot of coffee twice a day, then that is light use. So all it has to do is produce a steady supply of steam under pressure for 25 seconds.

much more than that. temperature stability around an ideal 92.5º and a constant pressure profile or like a lever machine a pressure profile that drops away consistently. also brewing temp is different from steaming temp so then you move onto twin boiler machines and different ways of heating and achieving a stable temp like a thermosyphon, heat exchanger or dipper. PID control?

you see those pavement full suss bikes with the suspension at the back? why would you ever need a £600 shock absorber for riding over a bump?

Take all that on board – but statements are made like:

we’re not talking about a £200 Delonghi out of John Lewis here (let’s say the £250 full sus equivalent),

It’s a bit different – I would say a quality full suspension starts from £1500 RRP a lot on here (inc me)ride bikes double and even triple that. I think that a £250 full Sus Mtb is not ‘fit for purpose’ for riding fast either up or downhill in say the lakes or peaks etc.

£200 on a coffee machine is not the cheapest by any means. But the statement above seems to make out its not fit for purpose. I’m sure the coffee it produces (with a good grinder) would please 95-98% of people who drank it bar the coffee connoisseur.

A £1000 coffee machine – is it that much better? or is it just incremental

Same with wine, you can get £8-9 bottles of regularly in a supermarket for £5-6, if you like them – as there not crap, you try a £20 bottle of wine you might think it’s a bit nicer, but would you be able to tell the difference between a £20 bottle and £200 bottle.

Cheaper machines also often don’t actually produce enough pressure to pull a proper shot of espresso, so while you are producing coffee by pushing water through coffee, it’s not espresso in the true sense of the word as the pressure isn’t high enough to extract in the right way.

Regards grinder, primary benefit is more expensive grinder will be more consistent in the grind size which is important for the consistency of a shot. Let’s say 1 individual speck of coffee ground requires x seconds of x pressure to properly brew coffee with, if the next individual speck of ground coffee comes out the machine is larger then it needs longer and/or higher pressure to brew it the same. You need all the grounds of the same size so you can brew it consistently. The more expensive machines become more sensitive to this so require better grinders.

But you are right, we are in the realms of connoisseurs here, but much in the same way that the folk I see at trail centres on £300 MTB’s think they are completely fit for purpose and struggle to see the benefit of our thousands of pounds worth of kit. However the OP has asked a question about fairly specialist kit so we have answered accordingly, if someone had a lower budget or expectations, I wouldn’t be getting into such pedantry as their expectation of what they wanted at the end of it would probably be quite different.

Tenacious D – very wise. I’ve travelled for the best coffee claims only to be disappoint. Enjoyed the debate . Agree grinder first , machine second. Still not convinced about home espresso but Ive not much experince of them and Im really pedentic about espresso. I’ll not get started on bean to cup commercial machines or we’ll be here a while.

Hope the OP gets something that makes him smile.