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England 2018: The moral dilemma

31 posts & 13 voices | Started 1 year ago by Stoner | Latest reply from kimbers

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Stoner - Member

So are we proud of our investigative journalism to the point that we'd be content to not win the 2018 WC host role because panorama and the sunday times peed in FIFA's pot...
...or does the lucrative ends of the tournament justify a more cynical silence as to the means?

How moral should we be?

EDIT: sorry, bit of background:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/9238520.stm

England are "underdogs" to win the right to host the 2018 World Cup according to the bid's chief executive ahead of Thursday's vote by Fifa.
Andy Anson is concerned about the impact of a BBC Panorama programme investigating the bidding process airs on Monday (2030 GMT).
"It's a small group of 22 people. If you hurt one of them it has an impact on others, that's inevitable," he said.
"It is certainly not going to win us any votes."
The England 2018 team fears there could be a backlash against the bid from Fifa executive committee members meeting in Zurich.

Posted 1 year ago #
deadlydarcy - Member

Football is rotten to the core...the core being FIFA in this case.

They (the odious Warner in particular) disgust me. Corrupt beyond redemption. And the rot trickles down through the rest of the game. FIFA needs the kind of evangelical clearout that the IOC had post-Utah.

I'd say take it to bloody Russia for all I care.

(please excuse the mixed metaphors )

Posted 1 year ago #
Stoner - Member

one has to wonder where Sepp Blatter's money is stashed....

Posted 1 year ago #
trailmonkey - Member

I don't care if we do get it. Every England game will be in London anyway while the rest of us get to pay £100 to see Honduras play New Zealand.

Let Russia have the stinking cheat fest.

Posted 1 year ago #
mikey74 - Member

There is no dilemma as far as I am concerned: Corruption is not tolerable in any area of life.

To be honest I've thought FIFA is a corrupt organisation for a long time and it's about time someone brought them to task.

If they don't like the corruption being pointed out for them, then maybe it runs deeper than first thought.

Posted 1 year ago #
colnagokid - Member

I've just watched that prog' quite shocking the sums of money involved and the way FIFA brush it off, obviously all in it togeather

Posted 1 year ago #
deadlydarcy - Member

I haven't watched the programme yet. It's recorded for viewing once mrs d finishes watching Desperate Shitewives. Any good?

Posted 1 year ago #
Junkyard - Member

reasonable and justified piece of investigative journalism.trully terrible timing and unpatriotic IMHO. Why not show it/report it one week what difference will it make to BBC/Times?

Posted 1 year ago #
Stoner - Member

what if we got the job, junkyard, and then they show the program - it might be construed that the corruption was required to win, and where would that put the integrity of our bid?

Posted 1 year ago #
mikey74 - Member

reasonable and justified piece of investigative journalism.trully terrible timing and unpatriotic IMHO. Why not show it/report it one week what difference will it make to BBC/Times?

I think this is the perfect time to show it i.e. when the process is to the forefront of the news. If we lose the vote on the grounds of a tv programme pointing out some rather blatant corruption, then that just further proves that the BBC are justified in their investigation.

Let some other country who hasn't had it before have the, IMO, dubious honour.

Posted 1 year ago #
kimbers - Member

as i posted earlier i am in the remarkable position of agreeing with david mellor........

"I can't help feeling it would be a better role for England to actually be insisting on the reform of Fifa, making Fifa transparent, making Fifa accountable instead of kowtowing to Fifa in order to get the World Cup finals."
David Mellor Former Chair Football Task Force

it was very sad to see cameron toadying to the fifa board/sun readers at the weekend rather than having the balls to do what mellor suggests

Posted 1 year ago #
Junkyard - Member

it might be construed that the corruption was required to win, and where would that put the integrity of our bid?

When lobbying ,from any side stopped and became corrupt who knows.
if we loose we will never know the exact reason as it is likely to loose either way but this has certainly not won any votes
I should be more annoyed about this shouldn't I

Posted 1 year ago #
Rubber_Buccaneer - Member

Spare me the BS, have we bought enough votes or not?

I know times are hard, maybe we could have lottery funding for some FIFA votes?

Posted 1 year ago #
kimbers - Member

well on a day when prince andrew, our global trade ambassador was exposed bragging about the corruption in the bae jetfighter deal with saudi araibia, which was whitewashed away quite happily i dont think that national our integrity is worth much so yeah buying votes for the world cup is fine
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/nov/29/wikileaks-cables-rude-prince-andrew

Posted 1 year ago #
RepacK - Member

reasonable and justified piece of investigative journalism.trully terrible timing and unpatriotic IMHO. Why not show it/report it one week what difference will it make to BBC/Times?

You're trolling right? Ill bite.

You seriously dont believe that getting the WC is more important than exposing fraud & corruption in the managing body?..

I for one would rather win the bid fair & square at a later date than have the air of suspicion hanging around.

what if we got the job, junkyard, and then they show the program - it might be construed that the corruption was required to win, and where would that put the integrity of our bid?

+1

Posted 1 year ago #
deadlydarcy - Member

JY's definitely trolling. Good call RepacK

Posted 1 year ago #
edhornby - Member

we can't afford the bribes so we're pointing out why we never get it

bloody good job as well, I've never seen anyone ever prove the shady theory that these big events provide growth (net profit) and that it benefits the wider economy

Posted 1 year ago #
Junkyard - Member

no not trolling I see little point in saying things i dont believe to get a reaction my own are certain to get a reaction anyway.
NO i think that exposing the corruption now means we wont get the WC. I am not anti exposing corruption - can anyone really support corruption or FIFA/BLatter and others?I am merely asking about the timing which seems destined to do the maximum harm to the bid. WHY?

Not sure how the bid is tainted if independent news networks do or do notinvestigate /report something. The bid team did not ask it to be banned,nor am I. I simply ask why now?It seems that it will do maximum damage to the bid rather than FIFA. Do you think the report will somehow erradicate all the problems within FIFA where as one week later it will be useless?

Posted 1 year ago #
deadlydarcy - Member

You have to start somewhere though don't you? Exposure is the first step.

Posted 1 year ago #
uplink - Member

Airing the programme after we lose the bid could well be seen as sour grapes

Best out now so that we're all aware of what's been going on

Posted 1 year ago #
epicyclo - Member

Any sport is ruined once the blazer crowd move in...

Posted 1 year ago #
RepacK - Member

I am merely asking about the timing which seems destined to do the maximum harm to the bid. WHY?

I think you're wrong. The timing is to gain maximum coverage for their findings. I support it. As I have already said:

I for one would rather win the bid fair & square at a later date than have the air of suspicion hanging around.

Imagine if it had been done afterwards..

Posted 1 year ago #
Stoner - Member

epic - Im not sure corruption has a tailor...

Posted 1 year ago #
kimbers - Member

airing the programme at any other time will mean less ratings and less exposure for the investigative journalism

both of which panorama are about

Posted 1 year ago #
kimbers - Member

Im not sure corruption has a tailor...

or a decent plastic surgeon

Posted 1 year ago #
RepacK - Member

Surely you mean barber?

Posted 1 year ago #
Junkyard - Member

exposure ? It is not new news

http://transparencyinsport.org/

sour grapes possibly if you believe the BBC and the murdoch owned Times are in the control /are the stooges of the government/bid team.
A conspiracy too surreal for most surely.
FIFA are corrupt,FIFA have many unanswered questions but why now is my only question everyone knew this already. That is a good quote from Mellor.I need to wash now I have said that.

Posted 1 year ago #
Junkyard - Member

Posted 1 year ago #
Junkyard - Member

kimbers How you enjoying being a daddy getting much sleep yet? Ordered your organic ethnic baby carry pouch yet [they are poor but great colours and hippy points]

Posted 1 year ago #
Elfinsafety - Member

Barcelona 5-0 Real Madrid!

Corruption has been rife in football for ages. Check out the history of Steaua Bucaresti and Ceauşescu, AC Milan and Berlusconi, in fact much of Italian footy, and Abrahmahamahamahamavovovovovich and Putin, etc.

Money rules today's game. Just look at how Man City have risen suddenly from mid-table mediocrity to a top-four team, in just two or three years. Chelsea did the same. Where does this money come from? From truly ethical sources?

Nah, anything that can expose corruption and possibly level the playing field, as it were, is a Good Thing in my book.

WC will cost a fortune. Best to wait until the country can afford it, really. The Lympics will plunge us into even more debt at a time when we could really do without it.

If it were just about footy, fine. But footy is just a small part of it, sadly.

One thing I do think is very important, is that the WC is never held in South Africa again. Unless those bloody Vuvuzelas are banned.

Posted 1 year ago #
kimbers - Member

actually i won some vouchers for an eco shop got him some organic cotton hats the rest comes from asda!
and my brother sent him this today

and soon he'll be big enough for one of these
http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/plush/bb2e/?cpg=93H

oh and one of these to train him

www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZkA6NEmt1U

Posted 1 year ago #