Hello,
After my previous thread asking for advice regarding my winter commute i purchased a new jacket – an endura lumilite job. Supposedly waterproof and breathable..

Well i must admit im disappointed – i have a set of winter tights that i bought in 2000 and they are still going strong.. but this jacket is like wearing a plastic bag.. sweat tastic.

Their response? i must be wearing too much underneath.. or doing too much cycling as its only designed to be breathable for 1hr riding…

Well my communte is 30 mins, avg spd 32km/h.. my top is wringing wet when i get in (the am is about 6deg here now, pm can get up to 19 still).

Is it just me or is their quality less than it used to be?

I have a gore jacket that is v breathable, but not so waterproof.. is there a magic bit of kit that does both?!

Their response sounds kind of right.

I assume it’s breathable but there are different levels of breathability, and if you start sweating buckets because you have too much on, you’ll get warm. The top is going to keep most of the water and wind off you which will warm you up a lot (I guess that’s the point!) but this means you can easily end up overwhelming even a very breathable garment.

Something with more breathable fabric (see if you can find the specs) or less layering underneath or a bit of both is the solution. Or perhaps something with pit zips etc.

I tend to use cheap lightweight (slightly breathable) waterproofs but accept I’m going to have to choose between sweat and external moisture in warm rainy conditions.

Same length of commute as you, 16-17 average, tried a waterproof once a few years back and was just too warm.

I only ever use a soft shell now.

I’ve always found Endura products well designed, and great quality for the price. Sizing can sometimes be off, as I’ve read here before, but that’s as much down to the fact that we’re all different sizes.

That jacket you’ve bought looks pretty thick as well, if you’re going that quickly it’s going to get sweaty, any jacket would.

Seems to be that you’re either a semi pro taking it easy, and the jacket is a bit shite, or you’re hammering along and getting all sweaty which would happen anyway

Ride half as fast and you won’t sweat or get a roadie type jacket like the castelli gabba.. which is an awesome piece of kit

Luminite breath-ability is rated as 10,000 (in best possible conditions,in a lab).Expressed in grams, it represents how much water vapor can move through one square meter of fabric, from inside to out, in a 24-hour period.
An average person sweats between 0.8 and 1.4 litres whilst undertaking mild exercise…….per hour.
Buy a brolly.

I only wear a waterproof when it’s heavily raining.
A gilet or a pertex/nylon windproof with vents is much better most of the time.
Breathability will never keep up with sweating ability of your body.

. is there a magic bit of kit that does both?!

No.

I’m a proper sweaty bleeder. No way I’d wear a waterproof jacket unless it’s lashing down with rain or bloody freezing.
I have an altura night vision soft shell which is a decent compromise. Keeps light rain off and keeps me warm without boiling me.

I quickly went off using a waterproof jacket(unless caught in torrential rain) as they all get bit sweaty.. I get through winter with softshell jackets and merino winter jerseys

Whatever happens you’re going to be damp. Best make sure you’re warm and damp in a soft-shell. Cold, wet hands and feet are what makes it miserable for me.

I’d say the problem is with “waterproofs” in general. While I’m sure it’s waterproof, it’s still like wearing an insulated bin bag so you are probably going to get sweaty underneath if you put any effort in.

I have an Endura Windchill 2 Gilet that I pretty much wear all year round on the commute and just progressively layer up (currently with cycling top and arm warmers). For my hour commute it’s fine … sure on really wet days I can be soaked through but I’m warm and that’s all that matters to me. Great bit of kit .. my second one actually … bought something similar from Castelli but I was disappointed with it (poor value, no rear pockets and generally not as well thought out).

So yeah, Endura stuff is great … for a slow short city commute in work clothes the jacket you describe sounds fine, but for putting any effort in (unless it’s getting into negative temperatures) you are going to sweat buckets.

Luminite breath-ability is rated as 10,000

https://www.endurasport.com/product/luminite-ii-jacket/

You’ve bought a not especially waterproof, not very breathable jacket. 10k/10k

Endura make much high rated jackets, but they cost more

eg https://www.endurasport.com/product/pro-sl-shell-jacket/
20k waterproof, 40k breathability

I get way too hot in a waterproof unless it’s really cold – at 6C with a merino baselayer underneath probably dry and comfortable. 19C is short sleeve weather – anything over the top is going to leave you soaked. If you’re worried about wearing something high viz at 19C get something like this

my communte is 30 mins, avg spd 32km/h..

Try slowing down a bit?

As mentioned above there’s the whole range of weather-capable short sleeve and long sleeve jerseys from Castelli (Gabba/Perfetto), Stolen Goat (Orkaan), DHB (Aeron Rain Defence), Lusso (Aqua Repel) etc. They work perfectly for conditions were it’s not very cold and not very wet, which is most of the autumn, winter and spring.

As said above … You’re averaging 18mph in a 10k rated jacket – you’re going to get wet from the inside unless you can ride at 18mph in Z2 and it’s under 10 degrees.

No jacket with a material like that will avoid moisture build up unless it’s well vented. ‘Breathable’ is variable – even goretex is sweaty ime. 10k, 25k, not much of it can allow the amount of moist air that harder exercise produces through the fabric. Some fabrics get there but 10k is for low intensity riding, dog-walking, etc.

its not thick, i dont wear the fleece (its the 4 in 1 jacket)…both mini pit-vents are open.

i dont wear it on the ride home..

ok i’ll have a rethink to my outer layer, i was just hoping to not have to carry another jacket aswell..

thanks for the responses.

i dont really want to slow down, im far from a pro (and never said i was anygood atall) thats for sure, but im not overly pushing it either

Inconsistent more than rubbish. A wide product range clearly made by many different manufacturers with only the Endura logo in common. There is some good stuff in there but really they’re the Next of MTBing

Have you got a rucksack on?
Cos that’ll screw the breathability of pretty much any jacket.

FWIW, my Endura Stealth was my go-to jacket for years of commuting. It was absolutely faultless until in the end it died of natural causes and I gave it a fitting send off by wearing it for a wet muddy lap of Gisburn Forest. Then I threw it straight in the bin!

Got an Endura Stealth II now and again, it’s absolutely brilliant. If you’re overheating and sweating, get a softshell rather than a full waterproof.

I’ve got several other bits of Endura clothing, always found it excellent for function and value for money.

Perfectly fair question from the OP, he (or she) is not to know that firms use the word “breathable” so flexibly on bike clothing.

As a rule of thumb, you should take it with a pinch of salt on jackets at that price. They might “breathe” a bit, but not enough for steady riding.

If you’re looking closer to £200 RRP then you might expect considerably better performance, but still with limitations inherent to hardshells.

Are you wearing it when it’s not raining?

In their wisdom, Endura have canned the stealth softshell and have no plans to replace it.

At this time of year I mostly fling on a lightweight windproof anyway, mild showers it copes with…. if it rains I get wet, but the exercise keeps me warm (alpkit do a good one for about 30 squids)

I’ve always found Endura products well designed, and great quality for the price.

Mostly well designed. Quality has been very variable in the past (IME especially with the stitching.) Spoke to an Endura rep about this a while ago and he did acknowledge that they had a lot of issues with a move of production which he claimed was mostly sorted.

is there a magic bit of kit that does both?!

Not really. As has been said, if you’re riding “30 mins, avg spd 32km/h”, unless it’s all downhill with a tailwind, you’re likely going to end up a bit sweaty.

weather-capable short sleeve and long sleeve jerseys from Castelli (Gabba/Perfetto), Stolen Goat (Orkaan), DHB (Aeron Rain Defence), Lusso (Aqua Repel) etc. They work perfectly for conditions were it’s not very cold and not very wet, which is most of the autumn, winter and spring.

Right now is definitely Gabba weather (at least down south) but you’re still going to get sweaty if you’re riding in, say, z2.

he (or she) is not to know that firms use the word “breathable” so flexibly on bike clothing.

True, to be fair on both OP and Endura do mention the breathability rating on the site, it’s been tested and rated at 10k. Most decent/reputable brand shell jackets make this fairly clear I think.

The difference between 5k and true >30k fabric is significant though and even the way they work varies (eg event vs gore), there are also different tests to be aware of, yet all will ‘breathe’ moist air slower than you can put it out.

If you’re looking closer to £200 RRP then you might expect considerably better performance, but still with limitations inherent to hardshells.

Exactly. A good one will stop water coming in and keep you drier than not having a waterproof layer, but you will always get some moisture build up on the inside ime.

I only wear a waterproof when it’s heavily raining.
A gilet or a pertex/nylon windproof with vents is much better most of the time.
Breathability will never keep up with sweating ability of your body.

This. And keep the DWR topped up

Shirley if you are sweating to much with the jacket on, simply take it off. Or am i missing something?.

If I must wear a waterproof jacket (I have an Altura Night vision and a Fox something something) then I only wear a thin wicking top underneath.
Unless you go for the high end Goretex type jackets then you will get hot and sweaty even during moderate exercise.

Isn’t your commute downhill on the way into work on the lake, then uphill on the way home? 😉
I’d just layer up. If you have a small waterproof jacket for when it really is wet, the rest of the time a combination with a gilet will be enough using either a long sleeve jersey or short sleeve with armwarmers for the the rest of the time.
Hope all well? It’s a long time since we followed that little Fiat back from the Chateau!

In their wisdom, Endura have canned the stealth softshell and have no plans to replace it.

I’d best make this one last then! Brilliant jacket.
I’ve got the Windchill jacket too which is basically the same but non-softshell (windproof front, fleecy back) but it’s not as versatile as the Stealth and it’s also black so I don’t like wearing it for commuting.

This thread reminds me, I need to buy some more overshoes for winter commuting.

10000 barely counts as breathable, surely? I’d be looking for around double that on something I expected to work hard while wearing, like a bike jacket.

Fwiw, I’ve had Altura Nightvision and PlanetX Hydrosphere. The two aren’t even on the same planet, the PX feels a little odd first on but in use is perfect. I’ve never sweated it up once yet on a fast commute. Having said that, I know the Altura has good crash resistance, I’m not so sure the PX would like to hit the tarmac and live. The PX is far more packable. They’re similar prices and both cut in a racing fit more than a casual fit.

my stealth jacket only comes out if its negative temperatures – even with just an icebreaker 150 under it its too warm in positive temps.

I liked my madison racelight packable for commuting – basically wore a windproof the rest of the time.

right im going to look into the actual breathability next time..

no rucksack – panniers.

if i take the jacket off in 5 or 6deg weather im going to not be warm enough in my current set-up.

will have a rethink. armwarmers are definite things to get..

haha aP..not all downhill no, but certainly not uphill. on the return i am in shorts & short sleeved jersey..

all well thanks, fabi is expecting after 4 yrs trying (medical help proved to not be the answer..) so we’ll be 4 in dec..

Welcome to visit aP & london_lady any time..we have a spare room with bed, and cake. and wine.

“breathable” jackets, the biggest con in the outdoor industry (well along with merino wool). They simply don’t work well in a typical UK climate, forget them unless you really need the rain protection.

Anyway a 30 min commute is so short you can just get wet, but something like a Gabba or similar will make life a lot more bearable.

Yeah. 10k breathability isn’t very good. Expect to get sweaty.

Their PTFE fabric ones are 28k (which is good) IIRC and not overly expensive either – middling cost. However the rating number doesn’t tell the whole story. PU membranes like Goretex, the breathability depends heavily on the outside temperature and humidity – so work far less in mild damp conditions that we get in the UK. eVent and the Endura PTFE have tiny holes in so breathe the same regardless. Much better for the UK, and also much better on a bike since the extra wind helps it breath much better still since there’s a slight draught through it. Which tbh is welcome on a bike.

Cycling generates a lot of heat and sweat, and simply having a breathable jacket, even a good one, won’t make the problem go away. You need to layer wicking fabrics underneath to draw the sweat away from you so it can be on its way to the outside. The base layer should be skin tight too.

im not in the uk – in switzerland but i understand now, thanks all for the input.

Ah, you might be better off over there then with a bit of continental climate. Lower humidity and lower temps make PU membranes work better.

If it’s any good to you, i found the Sportful “No rain” Fiandre stuff good, like you i tend to over hear on commute and always preferred their jersey and arm warmers with a decent windproof gilet. That way core stays warm and you have layers to adjust if your overheating, i’d often in light rain, keep my core warm with gilet but have air warmers off or with a gap at top.

I use the MT 500 II jacket – does get warm but a lot cooler than any other I have used.

Has anyone mentioned that 10k isn’t very breathable yet?

Between myself and riding group, we’ve had a fair bit (100+ items) of Endura kit as they gave us a nice deal for a charity ride.
Impression I have is good quality kit in well thought out materials that work well for price point/intended use.
In all that stuff, we had two items labelled (and hence sent) with the wrong size, and one dodgy seam.

As others have said, need to check breathability ratings of materials – unless you are super fit, you’re going to need a top spec jacket to ride at that sort of speed without getting wet from the inside.