There was no referendum on the trams. The only chance anyone had to object was as part of the normal planning consent process. Having said that, if enough folk had voted SNP – and they’d got a majority government – it would have been scrapped after the parliamentary elections. It would still have cost us a bit to buy out the contracts as these were rushed through before the elections. Now, I wonder if rushing them through meant that scrutiny wasn’t all it might have been?

TJ – you really do have the strangest way of arguing. In every recent thread, you’ve latched onto a catchphrase and repeated it in post after post as if that re-inforces your point. It’s actually pretty childish and is something my daughter grew out of years ago.

As I’ve already explained the reasons for the placement of the tram terminus – twice – I can only assume that you’re continuing this as a mere troll and I’ll no longer be answering your posts.

What reason for the tram terminus to be where it is?

I genuinely don’t understand why you think this is acceptable.

TandemJeremy – Member

“This was an opportunity to have a truly integrated transport system like in other places where new urban rapid transport has been built. Inste4ad we are getting a “thats good enough” system as its nearly as good as the buses.”

The thing about good enough, is that it’s good enough. Causing more disruption and more cost for “more than good enough” or “much better than it has to be” isn’t that easy to justify is it? Putting the tram station where the main bus stops are- the only other option- would have meant disrupting all road access to the terminal for cars, minicabs and buses, and moving the entire bus station,all hugely disruptive to passengers and no doubt expensive. And in the end, the bus station would end up where the tram station is to be- so less “integrated” and “several hundred yards from the terminal”.

The point I’m making when I compare with the existing services is that you can see in the real world how terrible it is to go from the car park to the airport, or from haymarket to a 100 bus- and realise it’s not terrible at all- it’s simply not a problem.

But for some reason you’re insisting on applying a higher standard to the trams and insisting that very good isn’t any good. It’s got to be perfect or it’s useless.

It is of course possible that the tram station location is there so that future development is possible. I’ve been working on some transport stuff at a large airport where things that were allowed for in the early 70s are now being undertaken and what I’m working on is allowing for things to happen in the 2030s.

northwind. What I object to is two things
1)- it could have been much better than it is going to be
2) – that people accept this poor compromise as good enough

If all the tram is going to be is as good as the buses then its pointless. Its not “very good” if it does not integrate with trains or the airport properly.

Think of someone with poor mobility or a lot of luggage coming from east lothian to the airport by public transport.
]
Its the wasted opportunity that gets to me.

I can understand the thinking behind building the trams from the city centre/waverly train station and close to the bus station to the airport. But I cannot find any justification for extending them all th eway down Leith Walk to Newhaven. Fair enough if there was say a ferry terminal or such like to be based there but I cannot really see that happening.

Also why oh why did they start doing teh work at athe furthest point from teh airport first? Surely it would have been sensible to open it from the Airport to city centre and get that part running and generating some income and then move on to the next phase and extend bit by bit.

Also given the fact that the train line runs so close to the airport, surely it would have been a better option to have a train station at teh airport, that way allowing people from all over to travel there directly rather than having to go into town first and then off load and reload and head back to the airport. There could have been a shuttle service from the airport into town for those people who live in or want to travel from the city centre.

I wonder if the cooncil were planning on the congestion charging being in place first thus giving some revenue to offset against the trams.It would have been excellent if they had been able to build the whole network that was first mooted but unfortunately I doubt that will ever happen now.

“TandemJeremy – Member
2) – that people accept this poor compromise as good enough”

And what I object to, is that you’re dismissing anyone who believes it’s good enough because you think it’s a poor compromise.

TJ in some other posts you admit that once you get an idea into your head you are unable to let it drop. You are honest enough to admit that this is a problem you have. I am genuinely not trying to be personal but I suggest that you sit back, look at your posts, look at other people’s posts and accept that this is one of those occasions.

So FYI
1:The drop off point at the terminal has moved. It is now in the multi-story and is therefore further away (or at best equidistant) than the tram terminus will be. You are therefore now incorrect in your view that cars get a better deal. period
2:As druidh says the teminal will expand South East. If you moved the tram stop closer you would not be able to have any space to enlarge the terminal
3: Any other option such as putting the trams underground would be extremely expensive in a project where the cost is already excessive. Edinburgh is still a very compact airport compared to any with similar passenger movements. No matter how far you walk (& it is less than a two hundred yards) you will have walked further to get to the tram stop in the first place & you will probably walk further again at the other end.

I certainly do not accept that in this case. I cannot accept that integrating with neither the mainline trains nor the airport is acceptable. Just think thru the journey to the airport from say musselburgh by public transport if you have mobility issues.

Has the drop off point moved since august? It was outside the terminal when I used it then.

Is the terminal going to expand the 200 m south?

I can only stand by what I say – its an opinion. I have seen integrated transport systems in place and this simply does not come up to the mark in my opinion.

My point is this was an opportunity to have a world class integrated transport system and the chance has not been taken because of too many compromises.

I’m no expert on the Edinburgh trams, it’s been a while since I was in Edinburgh although I used to visit it regularly and have used the buses, roads, trains and airport at various times.

TJ, it comes down to cost/benefit. You’re right, I’m sure they could have put the tram terminus right next to the check in desks but the extra money simply isn’t worth it, especially when the project is millions overbudget and years behind schedule anyway. Perhaps there are other factors that you don’t know about – planned expansion of the airport, a huge number of gas/water mains under where you’d like the terminus to be, unacceptable extra disruption to existing services if they built it 100yards nearer etc etc. It’s not perfect but it’s better than nothing. Although I still think they should just have built a bloody railway station for the airport on the current Edinburgh – Forth Bridge line; it always struck me as being monumentally stupid that the railway passes within 1/4 mile of the end of the runway yet there’s no station for bloody miles.

It does seem though from what I’ve read of it that the whole thing is a spectacular cock up. Manchester’s tram network (which I do know about cos I live in Manchester) is progressing nicely, on time, reasonably on budget and is being built in a phased manner. They’re in the process of expanding it out to the east of the city now.

I really don’t think it is better than nothing. Its so compromised that its no advantage over the existing setup apart from being marginally quicker than a bus.

Its an opportunity squandered at great cost

I can see that point but you’re complaining about a 200yd walk (less when they expand the airport terminal).

You walk 100x that distance inside the airport building itself. Walk to information, then to check in desk, then to security, then to departure lounge, then to gate – it can add up to over a mile! I was glad of the 3hr stopover at Chicago cos it took me an hour to walk from the arrival gate to the departure gate of my connecting flight! So frankly, a 200yd walk isn’t the end of the world, especially not if it’s the most cost effective way of getting a tram to connect to the airport.

Yes, complain about the cost over-runs, the general bad planning and implementation of the project, the politicians driving it etc but not about a 200yd walk!

but not about a 200yd walk!

+1

Crazylegs – its not just the uneeded distance – its the fact its outside with a road to cross and the fact that the interface with the mainline trains is rubbish as well. – and remember edinburgh airport is small and compact.

It creates no advantage over the buses and is no good for people with mobility impairments.
£500 million wasted

sorry to butt in with an unwelcome fact: You won’t need to cross a road.

no good for people with mobility impairments.

….who would in any case have trouble getting to the tram stop at their pointt of departure in the first place if they struggling to get into the airport.

TJ. Please realize how stupid your arguments make you look. I’m sorry, but you really bring it down on yourself.

I think the tram will start off as far away as the car drop off and once the terminal is extended will be closer, should be quite well done in the end, if it ever gets there. If you don’t like a 200m walk you’ll be very upset when you actually get into the terminal and have to walk to the desks or your departure gate!

Main plus of the trams for me is reducing the buses and that horrible diesel exhaust a bit.

So the road that is currently there is going to be removed?

People with mobility impairments are just going to be ignored?

the problem with this is we are approaching it from different directions and are not going to agree.

I saw this as an opportunity to create a world class integrated transport system that would be an improvement over what we have now and on that basis I am disappointed.

TJ – if you’d read my last post you’d know that the drop-off area is now the ground floor of the multi storey, so car passengers now get a worse deal than the tram users. This changed in around November.