Fair play milkyman depression is an every thing and it rears it ugly head at anytime mate
Feel ya pain on that one , hope you enjoy your riding pal 8)

Is there the same “risk” from fit riders riding faster than average too ?

Not really. An extra 250w upto 15mph is loads, especially for minutes/hours at a time.

15mph isn’t that fast, plenty of riders doing that already without assistance, nobody seems to be telling them they are a risk to access rights.

Again, not really. 15mph is actually pretty fast. Most rides around here average significantly lower than that, that’s with the descents skewing the flat/climbing speeds.

Just a convenient stick to hit ebikes with, to justify your dislike ?

I think it’s a fair stick to hit ebikes with, hence my comment.

Again, not really. 15mph is actually pretty fast. Most rides around here average significantly lower than that, that’s with the descents skewing the flat/climbing speeds.

These people who you think are likely to complain about legal ebikes being used, You think they are complaining about “average” speeds of a ride, door to door.

Or the speed they see for ten seconds while a bike is passing them ?

If it’s the latter (which I presume it is) then what difference would it make if we’re an ebike doing 15mph uphill, or a non ebike doing 15mph downhill or flat.

None at all, it’s the rider that makes the difference, not the bike. If you give plenty of room, and are courteous, it makes no difference what bike you are riding.

but if we ignore the obvious dangers of mountain bikes and ebikes becoming synonymous with each other we might pay a high price…

I’m just a bit worried about the impact of those certain types of people on the access rights of the rest of us!
I can imagine they are great fun but there is a risk that it just aggravates the access issue with other users on mixed trails.
I have no idea what any of this means? It’s just random words right?

If it’s the latter (which I presume it is) then what difference would it make if we’re an ebike doing 15mph uphill, or a non ebike doing 15mph downhill or flat.

It’s the fact that previously MTBs might doing 3mph uphill, 10mph on the flat and 20mph downhill. On the same trail, E-mtbs can now do 15mph, 15mph, 20mph. Can’t you see how that might be an issue for other users of the same trail? It’s pretty obvious on a path which direction a MTB might be coming from at speed (downhill!) An e-mtbs could be uphill as well. 15mph is pretty quick when you’re out walking, or on a horse.

If you give plenty of room, and are courteous, it makes no difference what bike you are riding.

Completely agree, however the main argument for e-mtbs is how good it’ll be to introduce more people to the ‘sport’ now that the required fitness level is less. So more people on ‘mountain bikes’, travelling faster, able to cover more distance or do more laps = increased tensions with other users = potential to affect access for normal mountain bikers, especially in national parks where they are a bit touchy about mountain bikers already.

I love the technology of ebikes, on the right trail i bet its great fun to hoon about, uphill and downhill, but that’s kinda my point.

i cant see it ending well for the rest of us.

Completely agree, however the main argument for e-mtbs is how good it’ll be to introduce more people to the ‘sport’ now that the required fitness level is less. So more people on ‘mountain bikes’, travelling faster, able to cover more distance or do more laps = increased tensions with other users = potential to affect access for normal mountain bikers, especially in national parks where they are a bit touchy about mountain bikers already.

So it’s not about ebikes then, it’s about people not being responsible (whatever they are riding) and increased numbers.

If we presume everyone rides responsibly, on whatever bike, and give other users plenty of room, don’t pass too fast etc. Then there Are no problems, right?

There becomes a problem if people ride like dicks, and piss off other users of the trails, on whatever bike they ride.

And the other issue you raise, is “more
People” causing other users to complain about bikes. that issue remains the same whatever bikes they choose to ride though ?

So the first issue is solved by people not riding like dicks.
The second issue is basically “we don’t want too many newcomers” no matter what bike they ride. E or not.

I could have done with one at Grizedale last weekend. 🙂 The two big chaps on Levo’s looked like they were having a blast.
There will always be haters.

If we presume everyone rides responsibly, on whatever bike, and give other users plenty of room, don’t pass too fast etc.

That’s a hell of a presumption!

I see it fairly simply, more people, riding further, riding faster. That can’t be a good thing on shared trails.

That’s without factoring in modifying bikes to go faster or removing the power limitation. There is also the fact that it is emerging technology, so in 10yrs time e-mtbs will be much more efficient, lighter and cheaper = even more people, riding faster and further = even more issues between trail users.

Maybe in other parts of the country it isn’t as much of a potential issue as here in the lakes, but i can see it coming and i dread the Lake District National Park Authority clamping down on the use of all mountain bikes whether E or not.

It’d be nice to get all my unfit non riding mates and ride up keppel cove on Helvellyn and do half a dozen laps of sticks pass, on an August bank holiday. Do you think the other holiday makers would mind??

Or do you think it might upset the balance a bit and actually do us mtbers harm in the aim of future equal access rights?

Most non riders i meet in the Lakes are surprised to see a push bike up a mountain, they are generally curious but impressed that it is possible. Multiply the number by 10, add electric motors and suddenly we’re not an interesting thing at all we’d just be a pain in the a**e.

it seems the non lovers need to have a day out on an Ebike then they can hate in the full knoeledge what they do .

I am a user and lover , mine has meant my van stayed at home this holiday and i rode in the dales each time
thus saving maybe 2 gallons of diesel .

yesterday i rode 40 miles taking in Mastiles lane up the steep side which was done in turbo mode
surprise no roosters or wheel spin
a few cheers from walkers
i did get up it at twice the speed a whopping 9 mph instead of my normal speed of 4 mph and was blowing just as hard at the top

the whole ride averaged at 12 mph a speed i am sure the racers and fit bikers would have no issues matching .
I used to average about 7 mph on similar rides but only over half the distance .

so Ebike for me means longer rides in the same timescale with just as good a workout as before
and means I get to ride with my much faster and younger friends

i would love to see the unfit folks doing loops on Kepple and sticks pass it aint happening not on a normal , legal , ebike ,

Just like any pastime its the Dick and fools that do the spoiling

great weekend, i did a ten mile loop 3 from my house on my codeine 29er,every morning 3 days running, then in the afternoon i did 20 miles on my ebike. i was much quicker on my codeine (not uphill though) but on my ebike i was slower,i was in eco most of the way, i went lots of places i hadnt been before, explored a few potentially dead ends, trails that went nowhere, fields i couldnt see the end of, it has opened up new places for me to ride on my normal mtb. both really enjoyable different rides on beautiful days.
i cant see me getting rid of either. the fastest i can go on the ebike is 16mph, i go faster than that on the flat on my codeine and much more than that pointing down hill (skills permitting). i really dont think there will be more incidents with ebikes going too fast as opposed to normal mtbs.

dicks on any bikes are the trouble, not the average person on an ebike

If we presume everyone rides responsibly, on whatever bike, and give other users plenty of room, don’t pass too fast etc.

That’s a hell of a presumption![/quote]

Im not saying that’s the case, it isn’t obviously.
But people are blaming ebikes for causing future access problems due to various spurious reasons.

All those same reasons can be caused on any bike. Which was my point. (If you read the quote in context)

I see it fairly simply, more people, riding further, riding faster. That can’t be a good thing on shared trails.

That situation can be exactly the same on any bike.

Riding faster isn’t an issue, it’s poor etiquette that causes problems, and people can ride like dicks on any bike.

That’s without factoring in modifying bikes to go faster or removing the power limitation

Thats illegal use. Shouldn’t be used as a reason to dislike legal ebikes being used.

There is also the fact that it is emerging technology, so in 10yrs time e-mtbs will be much more efficient, lighter and cheaper = even more people, riding faster and further = even more issues between trail users.

That’s just bad etiquette again. Not ebike specific.

Any industry bods here know if ‘pedelec’ and ‘ebike/Ebike/e-bike’ are now interchangeable definitions? What’s the term for an electric bike with a ‘throttle’/no requirement to pedal?

What’s the term for an electric bike with a ‘throttle’/no requirement to pedal?

Legal definition would be Motorbike

Funny I don’t recall doing 15 mph up hill on my ebike 😯
Tell you wot will happen is the dicks thatbthink snowdon is a down hill track and piss the ramblers off will get you banned of snowdon.. I’ve ridden and hiked snowdon but last year walking it with the wife a group of ten lads came flying down no thanks or apologies for covering walking in flying stones as they where screaming down .. I pulled a couple up and had a chat about it and the lads at the back were sorry mate we will have a word with them .. 🙁
That’s what upsets people manners and taking your time passed walkers and the horses Brigde.. they have a lot of clout ..

Legal definition would be Motorbike

In the UK? Am having trouble easily finding a clear legal (UK Gov) definition of ‘motorbike’ . If what you say is true, then ebike riders (at least on the road) have some kind of loophole that bypasses CBT, licensing,etc etc..?

Not sure if you’re trolling but why did you choose ‘motorbike’ over ‘moped’? Are mopeds still a classification of their own or are all two-wheeled vehicles with a throttle and a motor (regardless of motor capacity/speed-limitations/pedal-assist options) now legally defined as ‘motorbikes’? Source?

Im not saying that’s the case, it isn’t obviously.
But people are blaming ebikes for causing future access problems due to various spurious reasons.

All those same reasons can be caused on any bike. Which was my point. (If you read the quote in context)

The issue I see is that adding a motor just opens up the big door to legislation and that legislation will probably then also cover bikes without.

The issue I see is that adding a motor just opens up the big door to legislation and that legislation will probably then also cover bikes without.

Why would it ?

Seems an odd thing to presume.

Ebike legislation exists already, and doesn’t apply to non ebikes. Why would that change all of a sudden.

What’s the term for an electric bike with a ‘throttle’/no requirement to pedal?

Legal definition would be Motorbike[/quote]

No it wouldn’t.

If it meets the power and speed limits regulations it’s would legally still be classed as a bicycle.

If any ebike (pedelec or twist and go) goes over the power or speed limit regulations, they would be legally classed as L1e Light Moped, and require Tax/Test/ Insurance/Helmet etc.

But none of them would be classed as a Motorbike legally.

I assume those saying they’re going to replace MTBs are just having a laugh.

But I think they’re great for those that can’t enjoy getting out otherwise, for whatever reason.

In terms of causing conflict there are 3 ways they could do this:
1) Illegal ones. Obviously bad. No-one defending them here.
2) Bike handling and being aware of what’s possibly around the corner develop along with fitness on a normal bike. 15mph is still relatively quick on a flat bit of trail, and can be accessed by anyone.
3) People who don’t like bikes making up false arguments against allowing them places.

3 seems the most likely source of problems, particularly when there’s a £1k or so premium on them compared with normal MTBs I can’t see everyone rushing out to buy them and hit the trails – and while this will come down it’s never going to be zero premium.

3) People who don’t like bikes making up false arguments against allowing them places

There is enough if that going on in this thread alone.
And it’s on a cycling forum 🙄

Why would it ?

Seems an odd thing to presume.

Ebike legislation exists already, and doesn’t apply to non ebikes. Why would that change all of a sudden.

Just because that is the general pattern over anything legislated.

Whenever people who write legislation do their writing they almost invariably try and broaden the scope as far as possible and plug what they see as gaps to avoid being seen as discriminatory.

Just because that is the general pattern over anything legislated.
Whenever people who write legislation do their writing they almost invariably try and broaden the scope as far as possible and plug what they see as gaps to avoid being seen as discriminatory.

Well, they didn’t do any of that in 2015 when the current ebike regulations were written.

So I don’t know why you presume that would change any time soon?

(Other than philjunior’s Point 3 above 😉 )

My way of looking at it is that for every 1 mountain biking mate, I’ve about 5 that don’t go mountain biking due to being unfit and not liking climbing up the hills. They’d love it if they didn’t have to pedal as much and could rag down the local paths.

At the moment you need to invest a bit of time to get fit to start venturing far out into the hills, this typically introduces a bit of respect for other users / the countryside. I’m worried that there will be a large increase of riders, going faster + further and causing issues with other users.

Obviously my thoughts are just a worry, hopefully everyone on all types of bikes behave themselves and there are no issues. Like i said earlier, I’ve no issue per se with ebikes, just the secondary effects of more people, more distance with more speed. I’d have the same issues with anything that enabled multiple times the number of mountain bikers, doing bigger distances at a higher speed. Maybe if EPO was commonplace to make hills easier??!

We are currently tolerated, I’d hate for that to change.

If in the future MTBers were banned in national parks (for example) what do you think is likely to be the cause??

Fair enough it’s not necessarily directly related to ebikes but you can see that the likely causes are potentially worsened by more numbers, more distance and more speed.

If ebikes didn’t allow riders to go further or faster, what would be the point of them? Since they obviously do, can you see how that might affect other people’s opinions of all mountain bikers, myself included. Which is why I’m not that keen on ebikes although I do hope to be proven wrong.

If in the future MTBers were banned in national parks (for example) what do you think is likely to be the cause??

You want people to guess the cause of a fictional scenario that hasn’t even been hinted at by anyone except you ?

Ok. I’ll have a go.

Is it, maybe, exploding batteries ?