Hi folks,

Hoping somebody can help me out a bit here and let me know where i stand..

I purchased a VW caddy van via ebay last weekend, i went and picked it up today.

The van was described as used obviously, i emailed the seller prior to purchasing the van and asked if there were any major dents, dings, scratches etc..he said there were 1 or 2 marks but nothing major..which is fine as you would expect a few marks on a van. When i arrived to collect it today thre were scratches on both sides where somebody has removed stickers etc. They were quite bad so i haggled a bit more off the price and was reasonably happy with that..but i did mention thet they were not in the description.

Next matter is rather more serious…

I also emailed him asking if there were any mechanical issues with the van and was told no it was running fine, I had a drive in the van before handing over any cash and it drove fine on the drive.. so i handed over the cash and set off on my merry way.

I got maybe 15 miles up the road and the van jumped out of 5th gear, so i thought i had maybe knocked it with my knee so i put it back in, it jumped out again, so i put it back in gear…it jumped out again..so i pulled oved and phoned the guy, he said “oh it did that with me the other day, but it is nothing serious as i have had it looked at and it just needs the linkage set up”, are you sure i said? “yeah, no worries mate, it will cost you around £20, but ill send you the cash to have it done”. Ok i said, that seems fair…but why didn’t you mention it earlier..?..oh i forgot he said..ok whatever i thought, as long as you pick up the bill for adjusting the linkage.

I set off again and all was well for an hour or so, then it started again so i just put it in 4th and carried on as it wasn’t jumping out of that gear, i tried 5th again and it was fine again so i left it there, then an hour or so later it jumped out again, i tried a couple of times but it wouldn’t go in so i put it in 4th as it was selecting that gear no problem and i was close to home.

I tried 5th again as i was in a 30mph zone and a horrible crunching metal sound ensued and then the sound of stripped cogs and teeth followed..gear box funked! OFFICIALLY.

Phoned the guy when i got home and he said..”im surprised it did that, i would never set out to rip somebody off etc” I said i would like a refund and he said “oh, you could get a gearbox for £150”, im not paying for that i said as you knew the gearbox was faulty but you never mentioned it..i would have never bought the van had i known this!

“well ill pay half” he txt later, i replied saying i have no confidence in the van anymore and as i have purchased the van in good faith believing it was in good mechanical condition i think i am entitled to a refund and no hard feelings etc, i even said id pay his rail fare to come and pick it up and make sure it had diesel to get him home.

So where do i stand?? The item had no returns listed but surely i can’t be oot on my ear?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry it is long winded, just want you to get the whole story.

Thanks,

Mike.

I doubt youve got much rights on this one i’m affraid. I’m sure youve googled private car sales and already seen that its essentially a case of paying your money and taking your chances. Cars sell privatly for a lot less than a garage for exactly that reason. It really is a case of buyer beware and once youve driven it away, sold as seen. Your only hope is to play on his conscience and if he’s offerd to pay half, personally i’d take him up on it before he changes his mind.

I know you want to hear otherwise, but deep down you know your screwed. I’m sorry

TJ will be along in a minute to tell you you have all the rights in the world.

In the real world, your screwed. Should have taken a longer test drive and a mechanic with you.

He clearly knew and didn’t answer your questions truthfully so legally you do have rights however proving that since he’ll probably deny now… Small claims court is likely to be the best option IMO at least for the threat of it might get things moving.

I have a feeling that unless the ad had stated ‘no gearbox problems’ or words to that effect, then you have recourse.

Sounds like it was a known fault as the guy obviously had the prices for repair at his fingertips. Is he a dealer or regular buyer/seller of vehicles? He seems to have been very quick to offer you money for the repair (and knew the cost), especially as you had driven quite a long way before the gearbox finally gave up the ghost, so maybe he is genuine.

As Grimy says, you really don’t have much standing unless you can prove the the vehicle was knowingly mis-sold.

Whether a mechanic would have picked up on that fault is debatable as it only happened after 15 minutes – how many would take a car for that long a test drive!

Keep at him, you never know, but as Grimy says, it might be easier to take what he’s offering and get it sorted. Hopefully you got it at a good price which will make up for the hassle.

I meant no recourse…

The ad would make it easier to prove but if the seller lies then legally they’re liable. As I said however, proving it….

The fact that he knew about the problem but told you there were no mechanical issues means you have a case.

If he won’t refund then it would mean small claims court

If you have all your emails and text messages etc they I believe act as evidence in a small claims case. Often people pay up before small claims to avoid the hassle so if he doesn’t give a refund then it seems a sensible option (assuming it meets the value of a small claims claim)

Teh key thing is is the seller a trader or is it a private sale – some folk pretend to be private individuals when infact tehy are traders. If he is selling a number of different vehicles he probably is a trader.

If he is a private individual your rights are fewer However if the vehicle is not as described you can sue

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/before_you_buy/thinking_about/cars/private

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/before_you_buy/thinking_about/cars/internet

As its an ebay item can you not launch a dispute claim?

If you’re not happy with the seller’s offer then you could try and resolve the matter using eBay’s resolution procedures. The seller had told you in writing that the van was “running fine” whereas it conked out on the journey home so you could argue that the van was not as described. An unscrupulous seller may then claim that it was your driving which had caused the fault and I’m not sure whose side eBay would take?

It’s a pity that the seller only verbally admitted over the phone that he knew about the problem before selling the item. If you could prove that he already knew then this would be a lot easier to resolve.

Good luck!

Thanks for the input guys,

I have emailed him and txt him again..but no reply, so im guessing it is a case of..on your bike mate (which i will have to do now) ill just ignore you…until you go away.

There was definately no mention of the gearbox in the item description or in the email, but like somebody said how can i prove he said that? or the fact he said it was doing it the other day.

Time to cut my losses perhaps? I have the van for sale on pistonheads so hopefully ill get it sold, i emailed him asking for £200 – £300 for the supply, fit and setup of gearbox, plus a bit of a goodwill gesture….again…ignored.

I dont think im being unreasonable..

Thanks again guys.

£50 IIRC to sue thru small claims court.

even if yo uare successful in a small claims court it doesn’t always mean he will pay up! I would get a second opionon on the fault(s) and see how much it will be to fix, ask him to meet you halfway between the best estimate and go from there.

He may not have realised how bad the problem was.

I recently gave away a vehicle I thought had a few years life left in it. It failed its MoT (in the new owners hands) because it had a serious rust problem underneath. That was news to me because it looked good otherwise.

It was embarrassing enough for that to happen to a giveaway car, but I shudder to think what if I’d sold it on eBay or elsewhere.

Why is the small claims court chucked about on here like confetti?
£50 to lodge a case…..and a whole heap more when the case is found against you.
Caveat Emptor.
You have to convince the civil court judge that it was reasonable to expect the seller to know about the serious fault with the vehicle and you took reasonable measures to ensure your were satisfied with the thing that you were purchasing.
Have a good long hard think before filing your small claims complaint.
Small claims is not a safety net for people who take a gamble when purchasing somethng 2nd hand and lose.
Also, if it did end up in county court, the other guy will be able to show how he has made reasonable offer to resolve the dispute before it went before the court.
They’re dangerous things these barrack room lawyers.
monksie – Court and Bailiff officer.

Small claim issue fee varies depending on amount claimed. If you win and he doesnt pay then additional enforcement/bailiff costs need to be taken into account. Thats provided you can prove your case legally and the onus is on the claimant to prove a case, not the other way round.

Monksie – I thought small claims could not have expenses awarded? So if you lose you don’t get stuck with his costs.

There is a cost to the claimant in bringing the small claim (variable issue fee). May recover issue fee and and also some fixed costs upon conclusion(this wll be less than £100 and at the judges discretion).

Judge MAY award ‘expenses’ to the defendant if he has been dragged to court and case against him is not proven. These are usually minor and are Expenses and not costs. Claim has to over £5000 for court costs to become applicable (fast track), thats when it gets expensive for either/both sides.

Ta Margin – thats much as I thought.

Of course you need to try other ways of resolving things and both have a good ponder and take advice but small claims is your last resort

Very difficult case to win through small claims court and even if you won, its very difficult to get the money. Bailiffs would be the only option and they can’t force their way into a property, so all he would have to do is not open the door. When i won a small claims case, the bailiffs scared the defendant enough to pay up though, it took 2 YEARS to finally get the money. I really don’t think its worth it for 300 quid given the risk of not getting the money.

As above, private cars sell cheaper for this reason. I’ve always put money aside for stuff like this when I buy privately, theres very few true bargains.

if i’d bought it, i’d just pay to get it fixed, especially as its only 300 quid to get a new gearbox (?).

Is this the ad?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/seat-inca-vw-caddy-van-lowered-bbs-rs-modified-/260689900753?pt=UK_Commercial_Trucks&hash=item3cb25434d1#ht_1074wt_1144

member since 10th october 2010, 3 sold cars, 2 with negative feedback. i suspect he will do a vanishing act.

Yeah thats the advert mate! I should know better..however. Maybe i should post his address, email and phone number and let u lot get ur pitch forks out! Ha ha.

Sell the wheels, put some steelies on it and flog as spares or repair. I would put money getting 90-95% of your money back. It looks pretty clean and tidy and even with a funked ‘box someone with a set of spanners would pay £1k for it as long as the rest of the mechanicals are sound.

What do u reckon the wheels are worth then? It is in good nic bar those scratches on the side.

What is his selling history? What are his current auctions? Put his postcode into autotrader with within 1mile to see what comes up and if contact numbers are familiar….. He could be a small trader selling a small number of cars a year. If he has an ebay history etc of selling cars then its a different matter. On blackberry so apologises can’t read all the posts properly

Ps. Is rhis his own van for his own business? Does he have to declare vat if so? He’s blatantly lied/witheld info and knew the gearbox was worn. Vw aint cheap are they? 20 quid fewck what a toad. Could you give me the auction I.d? Don’t post it on here as he will receive abuse etc which could. Be counter productive. Markhoracekuk@yahoo.com

Hi Hora,

He has sold a couple of cars before and currently has 3 vehicles for sale now. He took me to his work place to do the deal, it is a vehicle workshop in Cramlington.

Im guessing by the other vehicles he has that he must buy and sell cars.

Anybody near Cramlington want to pay him a visit?

why dont you just go to his house??
or put his number on here and we will all ring him!!

I live 200+ miles away in Scotland mate. He works at Auto Style ltd in Cramlington, well thats where we did the deal and he said he worked there. His name is Dean..i will post his number if i dnt hear from him!

He obviously has no idea about the STW massive! Innit.

I live 200+ miles away in Scotland mate. He works at Auto Style ltd in Cramlington, well thats where we did the deal and he said he worked there. His name is Dean..i will post his number if i dnt hear from him!

He obviously has no idea about the STW massive! Innit.

get in there, get ur mate to ring him and say he’s from trading standards or sumthing.
or just smash his number on here and everyone ring him on a whitheld number

Ha ha, if i get enough yes’s ill post it!

Currently has three for sale. Trading standards is your next call. Hmrc may also be interested. Btw 2k for that?

Right he is clearly a trader so sale of goods act applies. A small claim is easier if he is a trader.

How easy it will be to enforce if he is behaving like this is another matter.

You need good legal advice but I would be tempted to tell him you know he is a trader, that you want your money back – all of it, if he don’t play ball you will shop him to the relevant authorities

Print out his other current auction ASAP (BEFORE you call him). He’ll pull his other auction as that is also supporting evidence that he is selling cars as a business.

Also print out his feedback.

In the past few weeks there is evidence that he has sold two other cars.

Inform him that unless he takes the car back and gives you a full refund you will be contacting trading standards and HMRC this morning.

2k is alot of money for a complete and utter shed (sorry, it is). Its also a SDI so you’d spend forever chancing your life trying to get off the motorway sliproad onto the third lane 😆

If you want to chalk this one upto experience I’m guessing you’ll need a new gearbox plus indie labour ontop and you’d end up making a loss on resale to boot.

Don’t let someone rip you off.

I have emailed him already saying i will take him to court, still no reply though!

Ill try and get the auctions and feedback printed off, im away with work for a few days though. That is the going rate for Caddy’s with those wheels im afraid. It pulls well for a straight diesel to be fair.

Get your mate, mum- anyone to print off for you now. Its supporting evidence. If he suspects hes been collared as a small trader he’ll pull the other auction and just say the two he sold previously were ‘project cars’ of his own.