If I want a large apperture to isolate the subject from the background

yeah, people always go on about this, but it's very unrealistic. Everything your eye sees is in focus, unless you need glasses 🙂

Hmmmm – not quite true – your eyes have a pretty small DOF. Look at the closest object on your coffe table from a distance of three inches – everything three inches or so away from that object is out of focus.

All that happens is that your eyes move around constantly, giving the (false) impression of f64 (unscientific guess, based upon the tiniest apperture of my large format camera lens).

Also, it's all about aesthetics, not reality!!

EDIT: coffee table test performed whilst wearing glasses and under the influence of beer goggles.

You have very odd eyes if everything in your vision is always in focus simon. On Earth us pathetic humans have eyes that go from around f/8.3 to about f/2.1.

Mind you, if you want everything in focus on your camera then you'll need to set a tight aperture and calculate the hyperfocal distance – which is tricky on Green Auto mode. :p

Everything your eye sees is in focus, unless you need glasses

Simply not true at all, I'm focusing on my laptop screen here and my feet being behind are very OOF. The reason you think that is because you can't actually concentrate on areas that are not in focus with your eyes, they auto-focus wherever you look and you can't see in sufficient resolution outside about 2 degrees to notice if it's in focus or not, but it won't be. Obviously it's better at distance.

Thing is, not everyone is trying to use the camera to recreate exactly what they see anyway.

The reason you think that is because you can't actually concentrate on areas that are not in focus with your eyes

yes I know, but nevertheless, what you perceive is everything sharp 🙂 And I think the foeva is 1/2 a degree…

giving the (false) impression of f64

I disagree, the visual system arrives at a dynamic gestalt of remarkable fidelity given that it's achieved with 2 blobs of jelly!

I suppose one might say that the shallow DOF thing simulates the mental focussing of attention on some particular subject, though in that circumstance, you don't see the other stuff blurred, you just don't notice it at all unless it moves or becomes a threat…

I stick mine on A and use the front wheel to adjust the aperture.

I might alter the ISO occasionally

The only other thing I use often is the button that makes it take a photo.

IMO, once the thing is set up to take the type of photos you like ie regarding saturation, colour etc leave that stuff well alone.

"M"

Everything else is redundant.*
Once the camera was set up through the menu, I haven't touched a thing since then (pretty much). Plus ISO throughout the day at a wedding.

There is one simple reason for this. WORK FLOW.

When shooting lots of images in RAW especially, you want as little variation in exposure when you come to the post production for speed and convenience. If you use A or P or S you'll find the camera's metering will adjust things everso slightly unless it's dark, meaning you have a shed load of exposures even thought the scene might well not have changed = shed loads more adjustments to do = shed loads of extra time needed in PS which is not smart.

* There are times when I use mirror lock-up with the self timer, and Live-View, & there are some things that would prove useful in specialist situations.
Read the maual from time to time to keep yourself fresh and play about with these facilities that will give you a greater undestanding of what's possible, but the main setting is still "M".

Referring back to the DOF preview, if you use it in live view the screen doesn't darken as the viewfinder would

In Program or Shutter/Aperture Priority the fancy jiggery-pokery in your camera is designed to give you combinations of shutter speed&aperture that work well in the current light… this is a good thing… lets you concentrate on composition which surely is more important?

Well, I see your point, and, err, yes and no basically! Compostition can be cropped in…. 🙂

Leave it in auto and try and take an action shot (say), and the camera will do it's best to freeze everything solid.
This pic of mine was taken in auto:

It's a nice pic. Well exposed, nice colour, sharp. But there's no motion in it, and she is obviously going at a reasonable speed downhill. Which is fine if that's what you want.

Bang it in manual (Even shutter speed priority if you like) slow the shutter speed right down, (1/40th-ish) and get this:

The bloke is on the flat, maybe even going slightly uphill, yet it looks faster than the pic above. Even his legs look like they're moving!

If you want to take pics simply to record events that happen as accurately as possible, and if you like a clean, sharp image every time, it's very easy to achieve in auto mode. No problem there. But if you wanna be creative, experiment, learn, you've gotta switch it to 'M' IMO 🙂

Good argument PP. I agree a camera has two purposes.
1. to record an event
2. to portray what the event was about.

Simon you seem to capture snapshots in time

Peters photos offer much more feeling about what was going on at that time.

It's a nice pic. Well exposed, nice colour, sharp. But there's no motion in it, and she is obviously going at a reasonable speed downhill. Which is fine if that's what you want.

you could argue that you have cropped the top of her head off which looks odd and it's not obvious she's traveling at speed.
if anything it looks like she's mincing not attacking the trail, her body position doesn't look confident.

yes I know, but nevertheless, what you perceive is everything sharp And I think the foeva is 1/2 a degree…

Fovea is not a fixed "size" but a gradually decaying density, many visual tests use 2 degrees as the baseline.

I suppose one might say that the shallow DOF thing simulates the mental focussing of attention on some particular subject, though in that circumstance, you don't see the other stuff blurred, you just don't notice it at all unless it moves or becomes a threat…

Which is the purpose of the blurring in the image, when translated to a flat photo the human eye/mind gets distracted by a very sharp background. This doesn't happen in reality because where you're focusing is a) in much better focus and b) outside the eyes primary high res viewing point. Since you can't replicate that by making the photo dynamically in focus, it's approximated by turning the background "noise" into mush, bringing the item of interest into apparently much greater detail and sharpness wrt the surroundings.

IMO, once the thing is set up to take the type of photos you like ie regarding saturation, colour etc leave that stuff well alone.

Sure, things like your sharpness and saturation settings are generally personal (but only affect jpeg) but the rest of the settings change with each scene far too wildly to just leave as-is IMO.

Someone above says use M for maintaining the same exposure levels, not sure you can really do that unless you work in a studio – you can spin 180 degrees in any room and get 1-2 stops different exposure depending on window placement etc, let alone subject.

Bang it in manual

on mine you can just spin a thumb dial to select a slower shutter speed

So what you get with a DSLR is flexibility to use it however you wish to.
Manual/Program/Priority/Mode ………… as mush or as little as you want.
These cameras are generally designed for flexibility, compacts are not.

Program can be used as a hybrid Aperture/Shutter priority mode = shift

This flexibility is intended to let you work/play.

The images you capture are still what counts , spend time thinking about them instead.

So what you get with a DSLR is flexibility to use it however you wish to.
Manual/Program/Priority/Mode ………… as mush or as little as you want.
These cameras are generally designed for flexibility, compacts are not.

My compact has all the same settings my DSLR has, just poorer image quality and an inability to get the same depth of field due to the sensor/lens arrangement.

Yes , some compacts have extra flexibility , some even manage to make it reasonably accessible .
Depth of field is an important point , and actually a real shock when you move from film SLR to DSLR with smaller sensors – not full frame.
After using a DSLR for a while it was a revelation to get the old F90x out
and take some portraits , being able to blow the background out of focus
made it much more fun.
I wish the full frame models were cheaper…

I spent years messing about with all the different tools for taking photographs, I have 3 large format cameras in the loft , and a 5×4 enlarger in the lockup waiting for when I have the time to use them again.
Still cannot get any decent images though…….

My compact has all the same settings my DSLR has

but less accessibly and less responsively

you could argue that you have cropped the top of her head off which looks odd and it's not obvious she's traveling at speed.
if anything it looks like she's mincing not attacking the trail, her body position doesn't look confident.

Woo Hoo!! EXACTLY my point Mr Smith! Thankyou! 🙂 (Apart from the missing top of head… Which was my fault entirely. Oops 😳 )

but less accessibly and less responsively

100% with you on that Simon. That's THE reason I HAD to get an SLR. Just faster in every way possible. If I only took scenery shot, I'd probably stick with a compact, but they are too slow and too limiting for anything that moves. 🙂

on mine you can just spin a thumb dial to select a slower shutter speed

Yeah, same on mine. But it has to be in one of the manual modes first. Yours is a better camera, and a different make remember. 🙂

but less accessibly and less responsively

To some extent I suppose, I still have the same M,Av,Tv etc modes that behave exactly the same on the same type of thumbwheel.
Aperture settings are changed with thumb buttons (same effort as thumb wheel).
Iso is no more of a faff than iso on my DSLR, it's still a button then a button, just as on the dslr it's a button then a roll.
I can get RAW. I can get bracketing. I can get F2.8 to F64 and I can get 30 sec to 1/64000th shutter speeds.

Thinking over it, I'm not sure it's any less accessible to be honest, just different. And the high-ISO noise is horrifically bad, even ISO 3200 on the DSLR isn't as bad as 400 on the compact.

You can get f64 on a compact?!!

You can get f64 on a compact?!!

let's hope not, the diffraction would be dreadful! f/6.4 more like 🙂

Read the maual from time to time to keep yourself fresh

For me this is the problem…… I want to take nice photos, I have a modest SLR cos the image quality is good, and the shutter lag is minimal, but the pages and pages of bloody instructions. Every time I get the camera out I've forgotten how most of the buttons are supposed to work. It's also far to big and heavy to lug around on the off chance of seeing something worth photographing.

These days I just use the camera on my phone….. maybe it's the singlespeed of the photography world? I can take the photo, crop, adjust and upload to the web in minutes.

I'm just looking at the 1899 images I took on Sunday.
Thank goodness I only ever use "M" or the variation in exposure would be an almost insummountable hill to climb in PP.

* I use spot metering on lenses over 75mm & front curtain flash sync on the flash units. I changed ISO maybe 30 times throughout the day on the two D700 bodies & use multiple flash units (3) to lift certain situations.

It's also far to big and heavy to lug around on the off chance of seeing something worth photographing.

tart 🙂 I do exactly that with 1.5kg of camera and lens 🙂

Crocodile Dundee moment:
you: "Look my phone has a camera!"
me: "No, THIS is a camera :o)"

You can get f64 on a compact?!!

Yes, firmware hack. I'm not sure as to whether it ACTUALLY attains F64 on all models, but it's available and does seem to alter the light metering. Doesn't seem to produce big diffraction problems, but that'll be because the sensor has a higher pixel density but smaller overall size than general DSLRs. F64 with a DSLR sized sensor pixel would look nice and furry 🙂 I never stray that way anyway, never needed it.

I do exactly that with 1.5kg of camera and lens

Each to their own. I'd rather not.

Doesn't seem to produce big diffraction problems, but that'll be because the sensor has a higher pixel density but smaller overall size than general DSLRs.

this says different

Manual 100% of the time, which can be a bit of a bugger on a partially cloudy day!

ISO also gets played with according to light, I try to keep around 1/1000th sec for most biking shots even with the flash.

ISO also gets played with according to light, I try to keep around 1/1000th sec for most biking shots even with the flash

1/10000th of a sec with flash? Surely that's waaaaaaaay above the synch speed of the flash/camera?

Max synch speed on mine is 1/200th…….

EDIT
THIS SUGGESTS that even an Eos 1D Mk3 has a maximum synch speed of 1/300th…….

Every time I get the camera out I've forgotten how most of the buttons are supposed to work. It's also far to big and heavy to lug around on the off chance of seeing something worth photographing.

Get a GF1 😉

I use my camera in manual most of the time – sometimes A or S or occasionally Auto if it seems to be getting roughly what I want and I can't be arsed messing around.

I try to keep around 1/1000th sec for most biking shots

wow, that would have required 62,500 ASA for this!

Just joined tha dslr movement at teh weekend.
How do you guys protect your screens?

How do you guys protect your screens?

I soon broke the screen cover that came with it, but Thom Hogan said he'd tried scratching his with a knife to no effect, however, I have managed to make a small scratch somehow…

1/10000th of a sec with flash? Surely that's waaaaaaaay above the synch speed of the flash/camera?

I'd have to agree with you there, but at 1/1000th the 580EX II will sync no problems.

simonfbarnes – Member

I try to keep around 1/1000th sec for most biking shots

wow, that would have required 62,500 ASA for this!

Which bit of "most" didn't you read, 😉
You can do better than that!

Even during the day I'll shoot low speed with flash

Peter, click the pick for details, shot at 1/1250 with flash. 😉

I'd have to agree with you there, but at 1/1000th the 580EX II will sync no problems.

how does that work? With a focal plane shutter, the only way to illuminate the whole frame above the sync speed is for the flash to last longer than the entire scanning exposure

Get a GF1

If only I could afford one…… I'd have bought one in a flash.

how does that work?

Dunno!

the D300 will push to 1/320 sync with flash but only by extending the flash fire, one thing i miss about the D70 was the fast flash sync (no shutter)

anyway i use pretty much everything including manual lens presets for older lenses and colour balance tweaking

i don't use AF adjustment, that's the only thing i can think of off the top of my head.

Quite often shoot in 'auto' mode (the D300 doesn't really have that, just program mode)

Just joined tha dslr movement at teh weekend.
How do you guys protect your screens?

Google "GGS Screen Protector" excellent bit of kit and much better than the stick on film
Can be bought cheaper on the bay, but definitely worth buying

Multiple flashes fired very quickly like a strobe i believe.