All the pedestrian crossings around my way are set entirely in favour of cars. If the sensor detects a car approaching from 300 yards away, the pedestrian has to wait, even if they got there first. They also have to wait through an entire light cycle for the junction regardless of when in the cycle they push the button, almost as if the software running it takes a look at its sensors after everyone else has gone and goes, “Oh, you’re still there, are you? Most people would have legged it across by now.”

It’s the same here, as well, generating my most evil of tempers when I’m waiting in the pouring rain (and it always rains here!) for dozens of warm, dry cozy drivers to dribble past at 12mph.

But then, when the red light eventually arrives, there will still be the cars who think it’s still ok to drive on. I forced a car to stop yesterday and started bellowing at the driver like Mr Angryrantyman, because she drove through a red light towards the pedestrian crossing that my kids were crossing. The bloke in the car who followed her through almost had his head rammed up his exhaust. #tooangry! Problem is that it happens so often that people think it’s acceptable.

The crossing at the main Bath Road near where I live has buttons to push.

As far as I can tell, they only make any difference to the sequencing at say, 1 o’clock on a Sunday morning. At any stage during the day, they do nothing at all other than either make people feel better or give toddlers something to push. 🙂

The same beepers/signals go off whether one has pushed the buttons or not.

At any stage during the day, they do nothing at all other than either make people feel better

I can completely believe that to be honest.

If there was no button to push then people wouldn’t feel in control and they would be much more likely to just give up and cross against the signals.

I have a theory that most* people believe that if you can’t SEE where you want to go, then you must drive there.
i.e – “I can see the shop at the end of the road, I’ll walk..”..”I can’t see the school around the corner..I’ll drive”

I certainly see a lot of this in the small village I live in!

DrP

*may not be most. Other statistics are available…

Yeah these bus and cycle lanes are all well and good, but how am I supposed to get a three flat pack wardrobes and a double bed back from Ikea on a bike?

Strange how the Viet Minh managed to move artillery and ammunition round the jungles of Viet Nam with nothing but bicycles.

There’s a pedestrian crossing on the A82 near Dumabrton that takes the biscuit. Busy 2 dual carriage way albeit it 40 limit at this point.

If you press the button the “wait” comes on. However, nothing happens for a few mins as cars stream by. If there’s a little break in the traffic the lights reset, I think they’re set to assume you’ll leg it across which you can’t safely do with kids or buggy. So you press it again…

Re pedestrian crossings – there’s one on a junction near me which has cars driving through on the green man pretty much every time I cross the road – I’m surprised no-one’s been hit. It’s after a right turn box-junction – people wait in the box to to turn right, wait till the oncoming traffic stream has gone and then do the right turn. However by this point, the light they were sitting in front of has gone red so they’re effectively running the red light. The pedestrian light setting thinks that as the traffic light is red, there’ll be no more cars.

One woman I remonstrated with had a go back. I think she knew full well she was in the wrong but simply couldn’t compute that not moving forward was the best thing to do and was panicking.

Another woman got a fright when I slapped the side of her car as she drove past me – the pedestrian light was green and I was already on the crossing as she moved forward but she was so determined to get out of the box junction that she wasn’t checking for pedestrians.

On the one hand, the junction/lights need a redesign, on the other, their lack of awareness of how close they are to running someone over is scary. If you’re not hyper-aware of this scenario and looking, you’ll get hit.
I don’t think the drivers are aggressive idiots, just don’t know how to cope with imperfect infrastructure and are so wrapped up in their bubble that the outside world is not a ‘real’ thing with real people to hurt.

Personally I’m going to avoid using that crossing and I won’t be driving that way either…

Yeah these bus and cycle lanes are all well and good, but how am I supposed to get a three flat pack wardrobes and a double bed back from Ikea on a bike?

home delivery service. simple.

Not driving is much easier than people think when they actually look for solutions rather than pretend to…

home delivery service. simple.

Or drive.

My point was that in situations like that driving is an entirely reasonable and sensible thing to do – but that doesn’t mean it is also the best option for the arduous half mile journey to school every morning 🙂

Some people seem to think it is an all-or-nothing thing – see perchypanther’s earlier post for example

You old Brits really need to get rid of the bloody roundabout you know.

FFS why do you need to have a roundabout (4 lanes each side after roundabout) leading to main highways near a busy school? Bloody kids are standing in the middle of the street trying to cross them!!! Ya, I slow down the moment I saw few of them standing on the island (that separate the lanes) from a distance but one was already on the first lane. I saw her but what if the car behind me over took me immediately after the coming out from the roundabout? (4 lanes each side so 8 lanes in total)
😯

Indeed, people seem to automatically assume you’re calling for an outright ban on cars, which is simply not the case, just more appropriate use of them.

It’s akin to pulling one of those massive suitcases on wheels around with you everywhere you go just to carry your house keys, when a pocket would do just nicely.

Nobody is saying you have to give up your suitcase, which is a perfectly good tool for carrying large quantities of things conveniently on an infrequent basis, but is entirely inappropriate if everyone was dragging them down the street with them every day.

But in this case the suitcase is also made of lead just to make it an even less efficient use of your energy, so you have to half fill it with flapjack and bananas to give you enough energy to drag it around all day, oh, and you have to pay for the privilege in case you bump into another suitcase dragger and run over their toe or damage their suitcase, oh, and the bananas and flapjack are massively taxed too, and the bigger your suitcase the more bananas you need, you also have to watch out for the danger to your health that is all the discarded banana skins littering your environment.

OK, so it’s not the best analogy but I now have a mildly amusing image in my head of many sour faced people queuing up down the street all dragging suitcases and the street littered with banana skins…

Obviously I get that roads need a priority system or else there would be (even more) carnage, but currently its far to heavily in favour of motorised transport.

On the water the rule is that unpowered vessels (human or wind powered) have priority except in shipping lanes (equivalent of motorways). I think this makes sense, and as a teenager had great fun playing chicken with lake steamers on Windermere.

Don’t forget you’re entitled to leave your suitcase in the street outside your house/destination and get very grumpy should anyone put their suitcase in your suitcase’s spot.

It’s akin to pulling one of those massive suitcases on wheels around with you everywhere you go just to carry your house keys, when a pocket would do just nicely.

Good analogy. 8)

I like cars, but I do think they are massively misused. They’re quite efficient if full of people going on a long journey, but so often they’re used for journeys that just stress drivers out and take an age.
Walking and cycling are great too but almost always subject to massively selfish nobbers in tin boxes.

We live in a large village and I always walk to the shops/drs surgery/cafe etc, but the place does nothing to encourage people to walk. The pavements are full of parked cars, some streets have no pavement at all, there is a solitary zebra crossing on the 2-mile stretch of main road. Our street has a very narrow stretch of footpath on a camber, so it’s hard to walk on, and drivers are constantly mounting the pavement to pass each other, with no regard for people on foot. Three times recently I’ve nearly been hit by a car in this way.
I’ve just written to the council to suggest that they try to prioritise people over cars for a change!

Obviously I get that roads need a priority system or else there would be (even more) carnage, but currently its far to heavily in favour of motorised transport.

This is spot on. Same issue with footpaths and cycle routes usually having to navigate around the more direct route of motorists, despite it taking the motorist a lot less effort than a pedestrian or cyclist to travel some extra distance.

TBH it would just be nice to see some evidence of even a tiny bit of consideration from your average motorist for more vulnerable road users. Even with my toddler on the back in a child seat, or towing both kids trailer, I still seem to be subjected to the same ridiculous levels of impatience and aggression. It’s really starting to get me down 😐

We’ve spent the last 3 months in Canada with no car, it’s been quite an experience in that respect. Nearly everything involves riding a bike, or walking somewhere. We have a free bus service down to the village, I think there are 2/3 an hour, and they have a bike rack on the front so if you can’t be bothered to ride back you can just chuck your bike on the front and jump on.

There is a huge valley trail network to keep bikes and cars seperate as much as possible, everything is geared to try and integrate not using cars. That said,mothers are a huge amount of stereotypical giant gas guzzling pickups here. I imagine in the summer riding everywhere is a lot easier than the winter when it’s under 5ft of snow.

But it has had a profound effect on us with regards to car usage at home. I ride to work anyway, but I am guilty of hopping in the car for a quick journey sometimes. My wife more so. She wants to ride to work, and the shops now, to leave the car at home, as it doesn’t make sense to drive (and it costs more).

I doubt we could be carless, but we might be going down to one car when we get home. That said, cars aren’t a priority in our household, I think they have a combine value of £3k on a good day, and are all paid for.

As for the guy who won’t ride In Southampton on the second page – it’s not THAT bad. I do it every day and will continue to do so when home. Similar distance, you can stay off the nasty A roads, and it’s for the most part, fine.

It’s also a lot quicker than sitting on the M27 every day & trying to get up & down Hamble Lane. On the very rare occasions I do drive I’m reminded what a monumentally sh*t idea it is, because the traffic is so bad.

Get on your bike!

Hob nob I rather suspect it depends how and what route you need to follow through the city (I work there and lived there for many years. I didn’t post the original but…

If you had to say come in from Ashurst, cross town and go out via say Portsmouth road towards Hamble that would be a pretty unpleasant experience – plenty of pinch points, loads of traffic lights, narrow streets. Not many places to really get a consistent 12-15mph spin on and you perhaps do 6-8 miles of that slow unpleasant stuff across the mid point of the ride
I used to come in to town by bike from near Hamble. 5 miles very doable and far better than the car but if you doubled that in those kinds of traffic and air quality conditions I would be much less enthusiastic.

Similar thing from the Portsmouth side the reasonably direct routes in are really not bike friendl, frequent stop starting, bad surfaces poor junction design add the usual other road user hazards and it would quickly make a 15mile+ each way a day trip a chore comparable with sitting on the M27 (I favour the train where possible).

Therein lies part of the problem.

I wouldn’t mind a long bike commute but there needs to be a degree of not being gassed and endlessly stuck at the lights to make it viable. = better infrastructure or I need some route guidance…

Sorry that sounded more pessimistic than intended as clearly it is all doable and I know in the Ashurst example I gave thereare some cycle facilities inbound but there really is a lot of room for improvement compared to the cocontinent.

Thought I’d dump this tale from today in this thread instead of starting yet another one.

Riding up a fairly quiet road towards a school. A school mini bus begins to overtake me slowly then pulls in across my path before it completes the pass. All a bit of a squeeze. Nothing coming the other way. The mini bus pulls up about a hundred yards further up the road next to the school.

Thought I’d stop and very politely inform the driver that she didn’t leave me much room and to give cyclists a bit more space next time.

Her response was that there was a sign that said “cyclists dismount”. Puzzling.

Anyway, on my way back I had a look. There’s a narrow pavement that is meant to double as a cycle path but is regularly full of kids waking to/from school. Pretty much every cyclist just rides on the road. However about halfway along the road the pavement (and cycle path) switches from one side of the road to the other and on the pavement there is indeed a “Cyclists Dismount” sign there for those using the path.

I’m not sure what the mini bus driver thought I should be doing based on the presence of that sign, but apparently in her mind it excuses her from almost running me off the road.

Really is a shame that everyone doesn’t have an appreciation for what it’s like to be a cyclist.

hoof her in the slats….its the only way to be sure

Tempting.

“Cyclist dismount” signs are particularly irritating because there’s no legal basis to them; I think they’re just put there as arse-coverers by town planners who can’t be bothered to do their jobs properly i.e. put in cycling infrastructure that’s fit for purpose. As you found out, all they do is promote unnessesary friction between cyclists and other road users.

I’m tempted to pop by there tonight with a set of spanners and make some useful safety modifications.

I’m not sure what the mini bus driver thought I should be doing based on the presence of that sign, but apparently in her mind it excuses her from almost running me off the road.

If I’ve got this right, a professional driver saw a ‘cyclists dismount’ sign which is on the pavement, and applies to cyclists crossing the road, and she thought that meant that cyclists riding ON the road should therefore dismount (for an unspecified distance)?

If she really thought that she needs reporting and retraining – that’s a total misunderstanding of basic use of the highway and associated signage… 😯

I want to use swear words but don’t want my post to be deleted. Are we really giving professional driving jobs to people with such basic lack of knowledge/intelligence?

Actually, I suppose the fact that self-driving cars are one of the earliest big live examples of automation of human decision-making and control, shows just how little computing power humans use when driving… the AI people are going for the easiest challenges first…

I’m tempted to pop by there tonight with a set of spanners and make some useful safety modifications.

Hypothetically speaking, if it’s a standard fixing a single 13mm (ratchet) spanner or deep socket is all you’d need.

Brooess you have it right I think.

If she really thought that she needs reporting and retraining – that’s a total misunderstanding of basic use of the highway and associated signage…

I am very tempted to report it to the school as she was clearly there to pick up and transport their children.

Hmm 13mm spanner you say…

I just want to post my rant from a FB thread about Cycle Lanes [triggered by a few comments along the lines of

“The ring road is full of cyclists yet there is a cycle Lane?!they cause so much inconvenience to motorists,maybe cyclists should be fined for causing delays and obstructions”

What this shows is that so many of us have bought into the American Dream of uninterrupted vast lanes of cars whizzing along in harmony and tranquility…. A dream sold to you by advertisers on the back of words such as “powerful”, “dynamic” “serene”; and “demonstrate your virility or earning potential by buying an expensive shiny toy to show how much better you are than the Joneses”.

It’s all bullshit, as we’re now finding out (and in the US, China, elsewhere, too)!

We can’t sustain a 1500kg metal box each. We can’t whizz from place to place unimpeded by other humans, and we sure as hell can’t squeeze all these people into our city centres in these aspirational metal contraptions without gridlock and congestion!

What is the solution? A mixed transport infrastructure! But nooo, the concept of sharing the space, waiting to pass (and later being overtaken by) a simple, cheap and humble form of transport is anathema to to the marketing dream. From this cognitive dissonance rage arises! Rage, capitalised on by the tabloid press to pander to your base fears, rage and frustration that echoes in the chamber of the circle-jerk internet community.

It’s over people, wake up. The car is not the solution to all our transport needs. For many journeys the modern car is just the wrong choice. And, like trying to force the square sticklebrick into the round hole as a toddler, we’re angry and confused about it not working.

Save your car for where it’s appropriate, encourage and build bike lanes and use them for where that’s appropriate, get an Uber. Get an autonomous vehicle, get the ****ing train….

It’s 2015…. Wake up.

If I’ve got this right, a professional driver saw a ‘cyclists dismount’ sign which is on the pavement, and applies to cyclists crossing the road, and she thought that meant that cyclists riding ON the road should therefore dismount (for an unspecified distance)?

If she really thought that she needs reporting and retraining – that’s a total misunderstanding of basic use of the highway and associated signage…

Please, please, please report it.

@gofasterstripes; Brilliant rant!

I would. Somebody needs to educate her, and that’s what schools do…

@brooess
im a bus driver.
please report her.
she knew perfectly well what that sign means, nobody could possibly be that stupid.
school runs are paid for by the local council, who SHOULD take a pretty dim view of a driver being so unprofessional.
also, i doubt her bullshit would wash with your local police traffic department.

It was soon after this bit of silly signage. Cut me up alongside those buildings on the right. Did she honestly expect me, riding along the road, to stop at that pavement sign and get off and walk?!

I think I will pop by the school and report it tomorrow.

Really is another good example of the crap cycling “infrastructure” we have around here. It’s fairly narrow pavement and usually busy with kids going to and from school. To try and have it be some sort of shared use cycling path is just ridiculous. It’s a popular run with cyclists as it’s a no through road for cars, but I’ve never seen a cyclist actually using the pavement as a cycle path.

So have you been in? How did it go?

Are we really giving professional driving jobs to people with such basic lack of knowledge/intelligence?

You should see the lot round my way, watched a minibus cut up a van (actually, nearly ran it off the road) the other day just outside work after an over ambitious overtake coming off the roundabout.

Gofaster – I agree to an extent however where there is a cycle lane (as in your OP) do you not think it more sensible to use it rather than the road? (I’m assuming here that the lane is fit for purpose)

If it’s for for porpoises* it is sensible to use, however this comes with multiple caveats along the lines of “What are the odds of that” and “Fining cyclists for making you treat them as all other traffic??”.

It’s generally a rant about the entitlement of car drivers, the rise in hostility as traffic pressure increases and the need for a mixed transport infrastructure.

I thought it came out rather well, is all.

*

Credit where it’s due.

🙂

Gofaster – I agree to an extent however where there is a cycle lane (as in your OP) do you not think it more sensible to use it rather than the road? (I’m assuming here that the lane is fit for purpose)

In my case above the lane really isn’t fit for purpose. It’s narrow and usually busy with pedestrians (groups of kids who really are not looking out for bikes). It’s also a quiet road as it’s a dead end. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a cyclist use the footpath.

So have you been in? How did it go?

There was a “contact us” link on the school web site so I emailed asking for driver details so I could pursue it. I got a response from the headteacher telling me she would investigate it with the council who provide the bus services.

The more I think about it the more annoyed I am that a professional driver thinks it’s ok to deliberately put a more vulnerable road user in danger for any reason, let alone an incorrect understanding of signage that isn’t even intended for road users.

As a petrol head, I am more than happy to spend the girlfriend’s food , shoe and our entire heating allowance on my flaming comet of death.

However, I would much prefer being able to ride from where we live (Shropshire) into Brum. The problem is the roads and traffic are not feasible. The A442 has killed more people than ISIS and then there’s Dudley – if the earth had piles it would be Dudley.

To get the train I need to find a station parking spot by 6:30pm, and then fight the middle aged harridans onto the thing to get home again.

But hey, we’re spunking £50bn on HS2 – that fact that nobody can get to the station because they’re lodged behind a Transit on the M6 having an existential crisis while reading the words “Dave’s Plumbing Supplies” over and over again is beyond our lords and masters.

If you press the button the “wait” comes on. However, nothing happens for a few mins as cars stream by.

I spoke to Derbyshire county council road bods about this a while back and apparently ped crossing lights have a 3 min delay on them – so if there is traffic constanlty coming for 3 mins, you have to wait that long before it goes to red – I did ask if it was poss to shorted that but they seemed puzzled as to why it was a prob to wait that long

This was for a crossing of the A38 on the outskirts of derby where there is either 3 lanes of speeding traffic or nothing at all depending on the time of day