There was a bit of discussion/interest on STW regarding the Scottish Governments decision to introduce a Minimum Alcohol pricing law, but I’ve not seen anything on the proposed reduction in the blood alcohol count from 80mg to 50mg.

Personally, I’d like to see it reduced still further.

i would like to see reaction speed tests introduced. cant react fast enough- cant drive

What’s the lowest reasonable limit for blood alcohol?

(By reasonable I mean one that is practically detectable by field units and doesn’t pick up people who walked past someone sucking a wine gum last Thursday)

cant react fast enough- cant drive

What is the threshold for fast enough ?

GrahamS – 20mg per 100ml is used as a limit in some countries. I expect that’s been set as the lowest practical.

How much alcohol does a couple of sloshes of mouth wash have?

Wonder if that would put you over the new Scottish limit in the morning?

What is the threshold for fast enough ?

just go for average. say .4 sec ?

http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/

id also like to add attention span tests cos my brother is like a goldfish and a genuinely fear for my life when im in the car with him

How much alcohol does a couple of sloshes of mouth wash have?
Wonder if that would put you over the new Scottish limit in the morning?

That would be my worry – no point in introducing a limit that results in lots of false positives or enforces a level miles below the one that actually impacts driving in any way.

Other than that I’m all for lowering it a bit – but more rigorous enforcement might be a better solution. How many country pubs knowingly serve multiple pints to customers that arrived by car?

i’m of the opinion that we need better enforcement of the rules we already have, rather than tighter rules.

just go for average. say .4 sec

Can’t be arsed.

You’re wrong.
Simple.

How much alcohol does a couple of sloshes of mouth wash have?
Wonder if that would put you over the new Scottish limit in the morning?

That would be my worry – no point in introducing a limit that results in lots of false positives or enforces a level miles below the one that actually impacts driving in any way.

It’s my understanding, and correct me if I’m wrong, but if you’ve consumed alcohol in any form, in the 20 minutes before a breath test, then they’re not supposed to peform the breath test until that 20 minutes has passed. This apparently avoids false readings from mouth wash, cough medicine etc.

they’re not supposed to peform the breath test until that 20 minutes has passed.

At the current limit. So how long would you have to stand by the roadside waiting to give a sample if the new limit was half of the current one? 40 minutes? An hour?

How many country pubs knowingly serve multiple pints to customers that arrived by car?

That is pointless as it does not mean they are going to leave in it.

Ban anyone who has a reaction time above the average??!!

50% of the population then.

BoardibBob is right. When the new limit cones in I assume all the roadside testing devices will be sent off for recalibration so shouldn’t be a problem. The station machine, which is the one that gives an evidential reading, tests breath from the depths if your lungs. I don’t know the science of how, but that’s what it does. I believe Hungary and one other European country have a zero limit.

As long as ‘countryside rules’ still apply then it’s fine with me. 😛

That is pointless as it does not mean they are going to leave in it.

True. But it’s really quite likely in many country pubs where there is no option but car.

I used to work in one myself back in the day. We’d see people come in, get steaming, then drive off.

We even had one guy who was a forestry bloke. He’d come in, get very well oiled, then go out to chop down trees with his chainsaw!

I don’t think country pubs are the big problem, I would expect there to be far bigger “morning after the night before” drink driving problem. I know it’s something I have done myself when younger and didn’t really consider that I was probably over the limit. That is where I would target education and enforcement.

BlobOnAStick – Member

Ban anyone who has a reaction time above the average??!!

50% of the population then.

i don’t think he means that the average reaction time is 0.4seconds, and anyone ‘slower’ should be banned, but rather ban anyone who can’t react faster than 0.4seconds (averaged – given a few goes at it)

or at least, i think that’s what he means. ?

0.4 seconds is fairly slow.

apparently the average is .215 (i got 0.27 after 5 clicks, down to 2.4 after 20)

based on a quick visual guess from the lovely graphs on that site, a cut-off of 0.4 seconds would affect about 10% of the population.

fast reactions are clearly important, but i’d rather see fewer people driving like agressive dickheads.

druidh – Member
Personally, I’d like to see it reduced still further.

Is there evidence that this has a positive effect? I.e. do folk under the current limit cause accidents/injury etc significantly more than those with loewr blood alcohol?

Oh the perils of not reading the detail. Apologies.

But still, no.

cynic-al – Member
do folk under the current limit cause accidents/injury etc significantly more than those with loewr blood alcohol?

The drink drive limit is 80 mg of alcohol per 100 ml of blood. The limit was based on evidence that the likelihood of being involved in a road accident and of injuries occurring, rises sharply at and above that level. However, the evidence also showed that most drivers are impaired, and their accident risk increases, at blood alcohol levels below this limit. Drivers who have between 50 and 80 mg per 100ml of blood are 2 to 2 ½ times more likely to crash and 6 times more likely to be in a fatal crash 2.

In 2000, the Government estimated that reducing the limit to 50mg could save 50 lives, and prevent 250 serious injuries and 1,200 slight injuries each year 3. A later examination of the figures suggested that reducing the legal limit could save 65 lives and prevent 230 serious injuries each year 4.

“i would like to see reaction speed tests introduced. cant react fast enough- cant drive”

Sorry, no pointless, unless we are all going to drive around in the same type of car with the tyres on with the same amount of wear etc.

Oh and as to alcohol limits, just ban it full stop. While ever there is a limit you will always get people who say they can handle their drink and therefore can drive because they wont blow over the limit.

In 2000, the Government estimated that reducing the limit to 50mg could save 50 lives each year

🙄

You do realise that banning staircases in houses would save over 1000 lives each and every year.

Although I dont condone drinking and driving.. I find people wanting to ban things for the slightest of reasons quite perplexing..

Staircases in houses at least have a useful function. The consumption of alcohol before driving has none.

Oh and as to alcohol limits, just ban it full stop.

Ban alcohol or just reduce the limit to zero?

Both are impractical but for different reasons.

druidh: your RoSPA figures sell it for me. Reduce the limit.

I sort of agree, but find that I struggle a bit with the concept of people who use the phone, text, drink coffee, apply makeup, read maps, discipline children etc whilst driving being so vociferous and judgemental about something proven to impair driving ability.

I sort of agree, but find that I struggle a bit with the concept of people who … discipline children etc whilst driving

I don’t see how a quick click on the remote for the electric shock collars is any more dangerous than adjusting the heater.

fast reactions are clearly important, but i’d rather see fewer people driving like agressive dickheads.

I’d rather not see people driving like they think they have, or need, fast reaction times (or drive in a manner that requires other people need them) when in fact there probably isn’t anyone on this thread who knows what their reaction time is.

How often is your reaction time tested Jonah? How much faster than average do you think the reaction times of a Jet Fighter Pilot or a racing driver are?

Lol @ thegreatape 😆

Oh and as to alcohol limits, just ban it full stop.

Its impractical to ban it, there are all sorts of circumstances where you can have a small amount of alcohol in your system, knowingly or otherwise – and be unimpaired by it. The issue with any limit though is if you have what you consider to be a moderate amount of drink – with a safe, legal limit in mind – you’ve actually no idea of what your blood alcohol level is.

There will be plenty of people who drive imagining they are under the limit but may well be over. ‘Tougher enforcement’ the threat of being caught means nothing to someone who believes themselves to be law abiding

A lowered limit – moving from a limit where people think they can ‘probably have a pint and be OK’ to ‘I can’t even have one pint without going over the limit’ simply means its impractical to drink at all.

I don’t see how a quick click on the remote for the electric shock collars is any more dangerous than adjusting the heater.

I’m sure your kids would appreciate it those two buttons were a little further apart though 🙂

I don’t need to have fast reactions when driving, because i can predict what’s going to happen before it does. hence I’m reacting even before it’s happened.

Sort of a driving equivalent of Edward Sheringham

because i can predict what’s going to happen before it does.

do you keep your predictions in a sealed envelope? Pulled from the wreckage you open it and pull out a note reading “I knew this was going to end badly” 😆

Staircases in houses at least have a useful function. The consumption of alcohol before driving has none.

Yes it does, I get home on the b-roads at least 5 minutes quicker after a couple of pints, I’ve far more confidence turning corners.

Yes it does, I get home on the b-roads at least 5 minutes quicker after a couple of pints, I’ve far more confidence turning corners.

It also makes you better looking and great in bed 😀

The station machine, which is the one that gives an evidential reading, tests breath from the depths if your lungs. I don’t know the science of how, but that’s what it does.

As I understand it, you’re asked to blow steady for a minimum length of time, once you pass that min timeframe, it’ll keep measuring till that steady rate begins to fall away … when its falling away is when you’re running out of breath and using the air at the bottom of your lungs.

On some of the handheld ones, you hear the ‘click’ happen just as your breath begins to fade.