Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 62 total)
  • Doping in other sports
  • CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    OK, so the debate rages on over on the other channel, but a question remains – How prevalent is doping in sports other than cycling?
    Athletics has seen a recent spate, with several Jamaicans getting busted, so one does wonder where it all ends

    aP
    Free Member

    2 rugby players banned for 15 months yesterday.

    CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    That was for recreational rather than performance enhancing wasn't it?

    Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middling Edition

    Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middlin...
    Latest Singletrack Videos
    clubber
    Free Member

    I'll comment on rowing having done that for a long time and at a level high enough to be mixing with international (British) oarsmen though I never made the cut myself.

    In all the years I was involved, I never once saw or even heard the smallest thing that would make me think that anyone was cheating. The guys who were better than me were just more talented physically even if I could hold my own technically. Bearing in mind that British rowing was top of the world for most of that time then while I'm sure that there was some doping in the sport around the world (and the odd failed test backs that up) it's never been prevalent and certainly not to the extent that you couldn't win without cheating.

    aP
    Free Member

    For refusing to provide a sample because they knew they'd fail apparently

    richardk
    Free Member

    Sorry to drop wikipedia links on you, but there appears to be good history of doping cases in the Olymipcs, and more generally there

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_sports

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_the_Olympic_Games

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_sport

    nickc
    Full Member

    Follow the money. That's where the dopers are.

    Arguably there's no doping in rowing because there's no real (money) reward.

    mt
    Free Member

    Very prevalent, theres just as many cheating gits in football or athletics. Tennis needs the same level of testing as cycling, that would through up a few interesting results.

    When the police raid on the clinic in Spain (Puertes?) found the blood of about 50ish cyclist, some of those cyclist careers were finished (Ulrich etc), no Spanish cyclists were charged (Contrador and other big names) and not a single one of the names of the other 200 people from other sports were released or investigated. All this with the support of the Spanish goverment. Paul Kimmage has been pushing the theory that Nadal is a user of some sort of drugs.

    richardk
    Free Member

    I disagree nickc – your reasoning would take me straight to football….

    From one of those articles up there

    Over the years, different sporting bodies have evolved differently to the war against doping. Some, such as athletics and cycling, are becoming increasingly vigilant against doping in their sports. However, there has been criticism that sports such as soccer and baseball are doing nothing about the issue, and letting athletes implicated in doping away unpunished. An example of this was Operation Puerto – approximately 200 sportspersons were implicated in blood doping. Of these, approximately 50 were cyclists and 150 were other sportspersons, including several "high profile soccer and tennis players" . The cyclists were pursued over their involvement, with many of them getting bans, such as Ivan Basso and Tyler Hamilton. By contrast, not a single soccer player involved in the doping ring was named, and to this day, all remain unpunished.

    nickc
    Full Member

    your reasoning would take me straight to football….

    Your point being? OK UK Premier may not have a huge doping problem, but I bet it goes on, and as for other leagues around the world. But in comparison to US Football, Basketball, Baseball, the Premiership is pocketmoney

    brassneck
    Full Member

    Wierdly, I was led to believe golf had some issues. Performance enhancing in a different way, beta blockers and the like.

    Not sure it rates as sport though!

    jova54
    Free Member

    IMHO it seems that the major doping problems are in sports where 'athletes' compete on a one-on-one basis, so athletics, cycling, tennis, swimming etc would be the sports most at risk.

    With football (soccer), rugby, basketball, non-singles rowing being team sports, the enhanced performance of one individual probably wouldn't be seen against the performance of their team mates and there isn't the element of personal glory involved. Unless you can nobble the whole team there is no advantage to be gained.

    samuri
    Free Member

    There currently is no punshment in British football at least, for missing a drugs test. So the footballers on drugs miss the test.

    But in no way are the tests as rigorous or as regular as in cycling so there's much more scope to go negative even if they do get tested.

    richardk
    Free Member

    nickc – got that arse about face didn't I 🙂 The dopers may be there, but the will to find them isn't…

    seb
    Free Member

    I would like to argue.
    A lot of top players have been done in Italy for drug use.
    Also, they use them to help recovery following injury.
    From the moment there is money involved,there is potential doping.
    You want to be that little bit better, you know you cannot train any harder but the other guys are just better, one day, you ear someone talking about this stuff you can take, that would give you the little kick you need.
    Then, it becomes a closed loop, you realise how good you are when you take the stuff and you end up in a catch 22.

    nickc
    Full Member

    the enhanced performance of one individual probably wouldn't be seen against the performance of their team mates and there isn't the element of personal glory involved.

    So, for example the repeated fast runs of a talented striker deep into opponents half to score has no element of personal glory, or the need for perhaps greater endurance?..Or no need for a defender to carry more muscle to better tackle whilst keeping fast on his feet?..

    I think there's plenty to be gained from doping in team games

    willard
    Full Member

    Golf used to have a problem with it. Beta blockers if I recall. Performance enhancing in a way that made them calmer, more relaxed and better able to make those long puts.

    I think someone got done fr being properly doped in the snowboarding at the last but one winter olympics. Surely being stoned whilst snowboarding should be mandatory?!

    BigDummy
    Free Member

    As nickc says, plus for the individual in question they will need to be selected over other members of a squad and it makes sense to ensure that they recover from injuries as quickly as possible.

    It's potentially worth it for the individual player even if the benefit for the team as a whole is not overwhelming.

    grievoustim
    Free Member

    i seem to remember snooker players getting caught using Beta blockers when I was a kid

    seb
    Free Member

    A few years ago, a company based in Oxford were working on gene doping, sorry, gene therapy.
    They manage to inject genes in mice successfully.
    As soon as the announcement was made, they were contacted by 2 colleges in america.
    They wanted the whole football, baseball and basketball teams injected and were ready to pay whatever the company wanted.
    This is completely undetectable unless you perform a muscle biopsy.
    I believe the company refused to "treat" them as the drugs were not yet fit for humans.
    But how long will it be before the company needs money and they want to see how their gene therapy performs on humans.
    They believe this "technology" was used at the winter olympics and Beijing.

    clubber
    Free Member

    Is that confirmed or just urban myth? It wouldn't amaze me if true but equally it's just the kind of crap that gets passed mouth to mouth as true.

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    I was talkingt o teh head of anti-doping at British Cycling yesterday, he was explaining how the In-Competition and Out-Competition tests were done and how stringent everything was, the requirements for the athletes and BC themselves etc etc.

    Anyway, Jamie Staff (ex BMX and track champ, now an advisor to the Olympic track squad) went to see a large well-known football club about anti-doping, they apparently asked for "advice". When they heard what was done, they said no way, it's an infringement of civil liberties etc etc. Footballers get told in advance when they'll be tested (on squad training days) and there's no out-of-competition (ie off season) testing at all. Esaiest thing in the world to avoid although I seem to remember a well-known footballer getting caught climbing out of a window in an attempt to avoid a drug test once…

    Golf, Formula 1 and snooker have all had rumours of beta blocker and caffeine use.

    D0NK
    Full Member

    There currently is no punshment in British football at least, for missing a drugs test.

    I thought rio ferdinand got done for missing a drugs test? was that a one off or have the rules changed since?

    So why is doping such a big thing in cycling? Is it a self governing thing? 'cycling' takes it seriously so the media go OTT when someone gets caught but other sports play it down and so the media don't bother too much either?

    willard
    Full Member

    Hang on… Caffeine is a banned substance? Seriously?

    I would be soooo screwed then. I can't get by without a cup of tea in my hand from about 8am onwards…

    I wonder if any darts players have ever been done for doping

    clubber
    Free Member

    Hang on… Caffeine is a banned substance? Seriously?

    I think it's been unbanned actually but it certainly has been banned in the past over a certain amount (though that equated to A LOT of coffee)

    barnsleymitch
    Free Member

    you'd be amazed what's on the list, and somewhat surprised, I think, at how many pro cyclists are asthmatic – unusual that broncho and vaso dilators are banned, unless you have a friendly doctor prepared to say you actually need that inhaler, etc.

    seb
    Free Member

    Don't forget that many substances are banned unless you have a medical condition that would justify taking the banned medication.
    For example, to complete what barnsleymitch was saying, many cyclists have asthma, some of them, if you read their medical notes, would not be able to walk upstairs, therefore, they are allowed to use inhalers.
    If a rider does not produce enough testosterone (lack of testicles) you can get testosterone injections to bring you back to a normal level.
    Saddle sore is normally a good excuse for corticoids.
    Also, remember the list of banned substances contains the masking products, for every performance enhancing substance, there is at least one masking product.
    It all depends who your doctor is…

    barnsleymitch
    Free Member

    To quote Jimmy Carr: 'steroid use leads to sudden rages and atrophy of the genitals – God damn my shrunken testicles'!

    iDave
    Free Member

    where there are people who could gain personally from improved performance there will be doping – in every sport, in every country, since sport began, and it will never go away

    srrc
    Free Member

    Team sports like rugby and football use all sorts to aid recovery. Ever noticed how quick they are to come back from injury. Some of it is very "grey" in anti doping terms.

    seb
    Free Member

    100% with iDave and srrc

    shortbread_fanylion
    Free Member

    Some of the posts above are a bit dismissive about other sport's drug testing requirements, particularly regarding football. Rio Ferdinand was banned a few years ago for missing a test. As far as I can recall his his ban was lengthy and he missed a major international tournament because of it.

    While I don't doubt that there is some doping in team sports such as footy and rugby I'd venture that it's less than in predominantly individual sports such as athletics and cycling by virtue of the fact that they're team sports. Success in these sports is based more on skill and technique than pure physiological ability.

    iDave
    Free Member

    stem cells are being used to speed up repair of broken bones in MotoGP

    BigDummy
    Free Member

    Since when has bicycle road racing been an "individual sport", by the way?

    aracer
    Free Member

    Rio Ferdinand was banned a few years ago for missing a test. As far as I can recall his his ban was lengthy and he missed a major international tournament because of it.

    9 months IIRC, whereas an identical offence in cycling would result in a 2 year ban. I suppose it depends what you call "lengthy". As others have alluded, he was also particularly stupid to get caught that way – testing itself is nowhere near as tight in football.

    moe_szyslak
    Free Member

    In Motorsport is is fairly uncommon, not the substances themselves, but the testing thereof. In 10 years of being involved I know only one person tested first hand.

    Only time I can every really think of someone actually getting caught was Thomas Enge, who was stripped of his 2002 Formula 3000 title for testing positive of marijuana.

    sq225917
    Free Member

    Used to be rife in triathlon.

    shortbread_fanylion
    Free Member

    BigDummy, good point, Cav could never win on his own without a good team supporting him. I believe though that the benefits gained through doping are less obvious in sports like football and rugby (say 'traditional' team games) than road racing, or a sport such as athletics, as pure physical ability is less of the overall package required to succeed at the top of the sport.

    AndyP
    Free Member

    The only athlete competing at a high level in ANY sport who is clean, IMO, is Usain Bolt. His performances are great, yet not unbelievable.
    Oh, hang on…nah, scrub that. They're all on the pop.

    BlingBling
    Free Member

    If they tested Golfers like they do Cyclists then the PGA world rankings would look completely different.

    There was a great artical on it about 3 or 4 years ago but still I dont think they wake them at 6am on the morning of the final round to take blood samples.

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 62 total)

The topic ‘Doping in other sports’ is closed to new replies.