Just back from the bar and can't be arsed to find the other political threads but just thought I would mention how bitterly disappointed I am.

No side is without fault but I can't believe the Nasty Party are back in again. How short are our memories.

Having moved here from South Africa about eight years ago…
I still haven't figured out the country, people & weather, nevermind the politics,

so what is the problem/what is your concern?

How short are our memories.

Not that short it would appear.

Why weren't the Tories given a majority ?

I have a lucky and well expensed life so according to the 'rules' I should be a Conservative.

Conservatives tend to take care of the rich at the expense of the poor

Labour tends to take care of the poor at the expense of the rich.

In my experience, the rich can take care of them selves which is why they are rich. The poor can't which is why they need someone to help them.

I would rather help people who need help than those who don't. Guess that is the socialist in me. That is the core reason I vote Labour even though I don't agree with many things they do. The fundamental reasoning behind their objectives are closer to mine than any other party.

Why weren't the Tories given a majority ?

Because not enough people voted for them.

Because not enough people voted for them.

Check out the big brain on Brad!

ernie – fair point. Even though lots of people were sick of Brown they couldn't bring themselves to vote Tory. What was it? Less than 35%

Don't blame you, you voted Labour?

😕

I'm failing to see the logic there…

Personally I'd say that in the 13 years in power, the Labour party has managed to stuff up pretty much everything. I'm not saying necessarily that any one party would have done significantly better (hindsight is always easy to use), but don't you think that after 13 years of the same old crap excuses, and the lack of will to make much reform, that ANY change is a positive thing?

I think a coalition govt. of the Lib Dem's and the Tories could be very worthwhile, IF (big IF too) they manage to sit down and work out how to work things out together… They will have to realise they have to actually work together, but if they do, it could prove very beneficial to the public, bringing the positive changes that both parties want, leaving behind the crap.

That's odd, my post went in the wrong thread. Hmm.

mboy – Have you seen the difference in the NHS? Public Transport?

Check out the political comedians 14 years ago and see what their jokes were about.

Now it seems to be – Gorden Brown, he has a strange smile doesn't he.

porter – Please don't use the T word on my thread!

I know you didn't actually use it but we got the reference

Labour tends to take care of the poor at the expense of the rich.

In my experience, the rich can take care of them selves which is why they are rich. The poor can't which is why they need someone to help them.

I would rather help people who need help than those who don't. Guess that is the socialist in me. That is the core reason I vote Labour even though I don't agree with many things they do.

WHOAH there fella

Labour ceased to be a socialist party 2 decades ago. Ever since Neil Kinnock ended his reign as leader of the party, Labour edged further and further into the middle ground. We now have a situation where the 3 parties are fighting over the same patch of middle ground, just arguing different things.

Besides, the outgoing Labour Govt. hasn't targetted the rich specifically. They've mugged EVERYONE! Rich or poor, Labour has made us all pay… And where's it gone? Well that's the bloody point… It hasn't gone anywhere of any use whatsoever! I could almost understand if it was all in some rich little bugger's pocket now (well, I suppose a lot of it is in the case of that bitch Cherie Blair who has robbed this country blind), but mainly it has been wasted on SHITE nobody wanted!

BRING ON THE PUBLIC SPENDING CUTS I say… And quickly! This country needs it…

mboy – Have you seen the difference in the NHS? Public Transport?

What? They were both a joke in 1996, and they're both STILL a Joke…

Big thumbs up there Labour, what a **** great job you did there sorting those 2 out! 😉

Sorry, you may detect a little sarcasm perhaps, but all I see is that we've had millions of promises, none of them fulfilled, with the taxpayer being the ultimate loser as we've paid billions of £'s that has all been wasted!

MBoy – Where has it gone?

Loads wasted but again NHS and public transport have both improved massively. Not sure how old you are but I use the NHS regularly (check my name) and can vouch for the improvements.

And where's it gone? Well that's the bloody point… It hasn't gone anywhere of any use whatsoever! …………. but mainly it has been wasted on SHITE nobody wanted!

Yep, you're right – I can't deny that ………………it's gone on "shite nobody wanted".

Or "The Bankers" as they are sometimes known.

Old enough to have seen a Tory Govt in power, but young enough to not really remember proper right/left wing politics… Hence my argument they're all fighting over the same middle ground these days. Only the BNP really sit particularly to one side of the centre these days!

I've used the NHS too, probably not as much as you, but my experience is that it leaves a huge amount to be desired still. OK, in my time I've been unfortunate to have what is widely regarded as the worst hospital in the UK as my local Hospital (the John Radcliffe in Oxford), but I don't see a massive change to the makeup of the whole system that is still needed. A fundamental redesign if you will. Building a couple of new hospitals is all well and good, but if you don't design out the faults in the system in the first place, you always plan to fail… Would the Tories have done any differently in the last 13 years? Who knows… But I know Labour haven't sorted it out, that's for sure!

And public transport… WHAT A JOKE! Only any good if you live in London still… Otherwise forget it, you may as well walk… Or ride a bike in fact! 😉

Oh, and your admission that loads has been wasted, yet you're still an adamant Labour supporter? HANG ON ONE MINUTE! That's your money they've wasted (as well as mine)… Do you not want to know where every **** penny has been wasted, and why it was wasted? I sure as hell do… And I want to know why the hell they let it go on for years and years and never really tried to stop the huge leaks in the system. A change is as good as a rest as they say, and I'm hoping that making massive public spending cuts is going to give this country the shock it needs to get off its arse and actually do something to fix the inherent problems it faces. Short term pain for long term gain if you will…

Mboy where do you live? local transport on merseyside has improved without doubt although Im not sure thats thanks to the government!?

My Mum has worked for the NHS for 30 years and tells me she has seen vast improvements in the last decade in our local sector? Just because its not right, doesnt mean it hasnt improoved…

Yep, you're right – I can't deny that ………………it's gone on "shite nobody wanted".

Or "The Bankers" as they are sometimes known.

PRECISELY

Why was that not stopped years ago? Cos it made the Labour govt. look good that's why… Until the bubble burst of course! But then his Tonyness always knew that would be the case, and he'd built it into his exit plan… Tony always had a 10 year plan to leave his legacy… Come in, make lots of changes, leave his mark, make the country look like it has made lots of (short term) financial gains, safely in the knowledge that by the time he left office the problems wouldn't have yet fully surfaced. So he could then **** off with all the taxpayers money he and his robbing bitch of a wife had stolen, happily for ever after, leaving poor Gordy the Gormless to pick up the pieces.

I feel sorry for Gordon Brown I really do, cos he's about the only half honest Labour MP of the last decade and a bit to be fair! He did let Tony Blair pull the wool over his eyes for more than a Decade though, and for that I could never forgive him…

Mboy where do you live? local transport on merseyside has improved without doubt although Im not sure thats thanks to the government!?

Fair play, good that it has improved where you are, but like you say, can you contribute that to the govt? Probably not.

Live in Worcestershire these days myself. Yes Worcester has a new Hospital, but then it probably would have done under any other govt. in power too, as it soooooooo badly needed a new one it was untrue! Seems that I'm not the only one round my way that wanted change either, cos if you look at the electoral map on this page you will see that where I live, and everywhere surrounding it, is a sea of blue! Obviously Labour did such a good job round this way for the last however long… Probably doesn't help that Jacqui Smith, the silly tart that started the whole expenses scandal, is from Worcestershire though… 😉

Someone's got issues…as The Saturdays would sing

Round Worcester and other middle England rural backwaters have pretty much always been a sea of blue. But don't worry, the Tories are going to sort out the constituencies so that'll never change either.

Someone's got issues…as The Saturdays would sing

Goodnight DD, you'll have to find someone else to bait tonight I think… 😉

Nighty night. Sleep tight. We're all shagged tomorrow mate. 🙂

Personally I'd say that in the 13 years in power, the Labour party has managed to stuff up pretty much everything.

You're young, aren't you?

Please explain what the Labour government, on their own, have stuffed up.

I concede the Gulf War was unforgivable. But you're not allowed to use the Global Recession. Britain's actually come out of that reasonably well considering. And didn't the RBS recently make loads of profit for the taxpayer?

The reality is, that your life is probably slightly better under Labour than it would have been under the Tories. People on average now have more disposable income, more consumer goods, are less likely to be victims of crime, enjoy better health care and education than they did under the Tories. Simple facts.

And that's in spite of New Labour betraying their traditional core voter base…

Oh has he gone to bed? Oh well.

Why was that not stopped years ago?

Absolutely mboy – I am in complete agreement with you. All this "light touch" stuff, the market always knows best, cut red tape, no government interference, etc, was complete bollox.

It really is staggering how anyone thought that sort of nonsense could ever work. And I really don't know how the Tories managed to convince so many that it would. Are people gullible or what eh ?

But you're not allowed to use the Global Recession. Britain's actually come out of that reasonably well considering.

What, considering we've come out of it slower and weaker than most other comparable countries?

I am still here Fred – We'll keep the red flag flying here!!!

Mrs WCA is also dead upset about this and as she is always right, anyone who disagrees must be wrong.

Talkemada

You're young, aren't you?

Please explain what the Labour government, on their own, have stuffed up.

…

The reality is, that your life is probably slightly better under Labour than it would have been under the Tories. People on average now have more disposable income, more consumer goods, are less likely to be victims of crime, enjoy better health care and education than they did under the Tories. Simple facts.

And that's in spite of New Labour betraying their traditional core voter base…

Gordon Brown/Labour have turned virtually an entire generation of educated young people into debt slaves or priced them out of owning their own home completely.

Easy to see why they they might be pissed off, although admittedly not for most of the 40-something middle class population of STW who bought their houses in the 90s. They were instead affected by the Tories' own previous bubble/boom & bust and hate them accordingly.

ave turned virtually an entire generation of educated young people into debt slaves of priced them out of owning their own home completely.

I heard exactly the same about the Tories last time around. My parents bought their house for 27K in 1977 and by 1987 it was valued a 5 times that. All young people were priced out of the market and would psend their lives debt ridden.

Difference is, the Tories didn't throw those same young people's tax money at keeping prices propped up once the music stopped. Thus come 95 they could get a very cheap house.

Not happening this time, Brown allowed the bubble to get SO big that to let it correct would destroy the financial system. Thus it must be kept inflated AT ALL COSTS. Yay for Gordon.

BTW, the Tories' bubble was big, but if you really want a socially divisive, economically destructive asset bubble, Labour are the boys you want:

Yeehaa! Look at that 'miracle economy' go!

Worcester hospital – a great example of PFI at work 😉

Strange that graph seems to stop just before…….

I remember getting ready to go to University in 1997, glad that tuition fees were going to come in the year after.

Not really sure what all the tax I paid has gone on.

Time to give somebody else a go, I voted but some people didn't, some voted for a party to try and get a result not for who they wanted to win (very confused)

Lib Dem's seem to have suffered from this problem
Q1 Would you vote Lib Dem – Yes
Q2 Would you vote Lib Dem if they could win – Hell NO!

At least I now live in a country that is not run by that unelected madman Peter Mandleson

Before what?

A bust?

Impossible! Gordon told us countless times, he abolished boom & bust!

He's an economic genius after all.

G.Brown budget speech 1997 : "I will not allow house prices to get out of control and put at risk the sustainability of the future"

😆

I don't understand how any socialist can defend a faux labour government that helped the wealth gap to reach its widest in sixty years. And I don't understand how anyone with a vague grasp of economics can defend a government that borrowed and borrowed whilst the economy was booming thus leaving it with a mountain of debt which has become incredibly difficult to handle now that the economy has dipped.

I agree with BBBs original post. Just can't fathom why people vote Tory after what Thatcher did.

As an aside, does anyone know how much per year we spend on our wars? Not talking about the general cost of having an army, but the extra money on having them somewhere other than nice safe barracks?

The great thing about this coalition government is that it will end up with a set of policies that NOBODY voted for. So when it all goes t!ts up everyone will have someone to blame – a future fair for all!

chiefgrooveguru – Member

I don't understand how any socialist can defend a faux labour government that helped the wealth gap to reach its widest in sixty years.
Because they remove a lot of people from relative poverty and attempted to redistribute thru tax credits and the minimum wage. They managed to slow the growth of the wealth gap – at least they tried

And I don't understand how anyone with a vague grasp of economics can defend a government that borrowed and borrowed whilst the economy was booming thus leaving it with a mountain of debt which has become incredibly difficult to handle now that the economy has dipped.

Errmmmm – they did not borrow thru the good times, the recent financial crisis is global not local and we have come out of it well with Brown and Darlings decisions and direction recieving global plaudits. Conversly the tory policy would have made the recession deeper and longer with more out of work.

the Labour party has managed to stuff up pretty much everything

HAH! Just you wait! 🙂 I'm not sure you know what 'stuffed up' actually is.

G.Brown budget speech 1997 : "I will not allow house prices to get out of control and put at risk the sustainability of the future

Suggest you have a think about how government actually has to work vs what people have to say to get elected.