[Closed] Does knee over pedal spindle matter anymore??

Roadie thing isn't it?

I've read that it's a myth

http://sheldonbrown.com/kops.html

EDIT: although you could probably find plenty of internet articles that state that it isn't a myth, you have to believe whichever suits you!

The back of my knees started getting painful, after Googling and thus putting the seat back, problem went away, so I'd say it does matter.

Ive experimented with moving the seat forward and find my legs get sore just above the knee.

You probably don't want it too far forward or too far back, but I'd say it's probably more about the angles of knee and hip than being KOPS.

How far back is too far back?
http://www.recumbent-gallery.eu/category/videos/

How far forward is too far forward?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24015622

http://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/05/seat-set-back-for-road-bikes/

Keith Bontrager has written about this in some detail. The physics of what he says makes sense but he doesn't give a better way of locating things.

Kops is good, but like all fitting guides, it is just a guide.

The physics of what he says makes sense but he doesn't give a better way of locating things.

I wondered why more manufacturers don't change seat tube angle with larger and smaller frames. iirc kona do for largest sizes but if you don't (and all other things are equal ie length of chainstays, exposed seatpost, saddle rails), do you not end up with more weight over the rear wheel (when seated on climbs) than smaller sizes?

It's a good starting point to work from . Get the saddle positioned to a fairly neutral fore and aft position then tweak it to see what suits.

Does knee over pedal spindle matter anymore??

Nothing matters anymore.

I have my seat rammed forwards to keep weight on the front end.

KOP is irrelevant once the gradient is more than a few degrees from horizontal. On the MTB, climbing efficiency is about traction and maintaining grip. You're also more likely to be going up steeper stuff than road climbs and it's less about smooth cadence than simply putting power down. So even if you believe it's relevant for road bikes, MTBs are a different story.

Lots of people like to be given knowledge they can then adhere to and believe in. Rather than think for themselves or experiment on their own.

Given that we are all different in size and strength; ride different bikes in different styles and places - Id say any "formula" is going to be very vague, if not useless when it comes to Mountain bikes.

I use it as a starting point but then move it as required dependent on frame, etc to fine tune my position but most of mine are fairly close to one another. Position will vary between people because we're all different shapes with longer and shorter arms and legs

Like all things give it a go, your legs might ache at various points if you get it wrong but you won't die

Regards the Bontrager 'Myth of KOPS' essay, it's worth bearing in mind points he makes that he had a commercial system he'd been selling that was based on a watered down version of his data and sometimes disagreed with him and he hated the whole thing by the end (something about burying it all in a box?). From those two points he's unlikely to be publishing his findings without getting sued...

I guess every generation likes to think they invented it all, but really the way mtb can be ridden in so many styles coupled with the sheer amount of out of the saddle both descending and ascending, plus now dropper posts that aren't necessarily even giving you a fixed seated location all conspire to make experience and feel more reliable indicators of fit. There are things that do matter, like spd cleat location if you value your achilles, but overall I like the idea of size based on 'reach' far more. I can see it would be much harder to sell to a public educated by generations of dads about standover and reaching the floor with your feet from the seat etc though...