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1. slackman99 - Member

   Just wondering how many of the forum members work in F1/motorsport?

   If you do, how did you get in to it, graduate/degree, apprenticeship, worked your way up through the ranks?

   I don't work in motorsport, but my problem is that i'd love to work in F1, but am in completely the wrong game.

   I graduated with a degree in Civil Engineering 5 years ago, and have worked in the construction industry since (not as a civil engineer, so haven't really kept up with a lot of what was taught).

   My placement year during my degree course put a seed of doubt in the back of my head about working in construction for the rest of my life. I've pushed that to the back of my mind since then (although have always enjoyed motorsport and thought that a job in F1 was about as technical and 'cutting edge' as it gets which really appeals to me. Plus I love how the team works together to create the best car they can). A recent change in job (due to redundancy) has got me thinking again and wondering if I should stay where I am as a means to an end (i.e pay the bills), or suck it up and re-train to try to get a job in something i'd enjoy for the rest of my career.

   I see the only route in as another degree in a more related subject (mech eng, manufacturing eng, motorsport eng etc), which apart from cost, would put me 10years older than other graduates.

   Just wondering if there's any other routes in, or does a degree really place me best at a chance to get into motorsport?

   Posted 9 months ago #
2. grtdkad - Member

   Take a look at the MIA website (motorsport industry association). Give them a call too. They won't bite your head off!

   Posted 9 months ago #
3. nickjb - Member

   I used to. It wasn't as fun as it sounded. I did gearbox stuff, not much interaction with cars at all and rearely out of the office except to visit another factory. It had it moments and it was interesting to watch a race knowing one of your bits was in there.

   Long days but decent conditions. They expect you to work hard.

   Its pretty competitive so when then they've got a pile of CVs you need to have all the boxes ticked to even get close. There are loads of different jobs to get you in so you might need to think of some alternate options rather than going straight to an F1 team as a designer.

   Posted 9 months ago #
4. slackman99 - Member

   I'll have a look at the MIA website.

   Looking at the vacancies on the team websites, it seems that a relevant engineering degree is the minimum to even get you looked at (for a grad course). Do they even do apprenticeships any more?

   Posted 9 months ago #
5. damo2576 - Member

   I nearly did, did a degree in Automotive Engineering at Loughborough, many of my classmates went on to work in motorsport and manufacturers. I'd had enough!

   Edit: the reason being that it sounds fun but the reality is you're stuck behind a screen modelling fluid dynamics or something equally boring!

   Posted 9 months ago #
6. skiboy - Member

   i worked for a A1 sub contractor in the 90's, one of my friends is a long term employee of Renault F1,another two were long term WRC rally team employees and I'm currently interviewing bundles of people with decades of motorsport experience in manufacturing and one common theme is present among all these groups and my own experience,

   the is the money is crap, most of the work is contract only, long hours are a must, the CV's are as previously mentioned piled to the roof,

   on the plus side,

   once i was interviewed in the boardroom at Jaguar F1 , that was an experience i was up for even though i didn't get the job,

   i made the front uprights on one of Ralf Shu's car and then watched him race it 2 weeks later without the wheels falling off, makes watching a race a different experience,

   it's a good career move as everyone thinks it looks good on a CV,

   Always worth a punt if thats what you want to do with your life, might not be fun if your married or like socialising,

   I have a guy starting at my our place on Monday that spent 10yrs at Arrows F1, 5 at TWR, 6 at motorsport development WRC and for the record he wants to earn some real money and work normal hrs,

   I should add we were/ are all machinists apart form my mate at Renault who is a race gearbox technician at the factory.

   Posted 9 months ago #
7. slackman99 - Member

   I realised the hours were long, but thought the pay was reasonable.

   skiboy, as a machinist I presume that it's all computer controlled? Even a degree won't teach that, so how do you go about getting into that field?

   Posted 9 months ago #
8. Raindog - Member

   I have a guy starting at my our place on Monday that spent 10yrs at Arrows F1, 5 at TWR, 6 at motorsport development WRC and for the record he wants to earn some real money and work normal hrs,

   Who is it ? just curious as I was at TWR for 10 years.

   Posted 9 months ago #
9. andytherocketeer - Member

   Friend worked for Toyota F1 in Cologne.
   Friend of a friend got placement at Penske (iirc) straight from Uni. (Soton Aero Eng.).

   I considered a potential place @ Williams many years ago, but then something else came up that paid pretty well.

   Posted 9 months ago #
10. LoCo - Member

    Andy is that Paul (soton) by any chance?

    Posted 9 months ago #
11. skiboy - Member

    yep all CNC but for a few manuals, thing is you don't even get the edit key , they tend to employ setter operators,(lower skilled than someone like myself) or button pushers as we call them, all the thinking and skill is removed,

    I am currently awaiting a hiedenhian 5 axis sim course and a new CAM (solidcam) course as I am a programmer and a skilled machinist with 25yrs including a 4 yr apprenticeship under my belt, i have also just purchased a £400k DMG 5 Axis mill to play with,

    if you want to be a machinist then you need to get a good apprenticeship then lots of experience manufacturing on CNC's doing your own programming and cam work then take it from there to go into F1,

    average salaries are around 27-30k in F1 but when you think you will be working around 55-60hrs a week it only means around £10.50 an hr, we pay our guys around 12-15 per hr, top wack for the good ones, anything over 40 hrs is at 1.5 per hr so that means we pay our guys around 48k per year if they work 15hrs overtime a week, the top guys that is.

    or in simple english if you want to earn money work outside F1, if you want to work in F1 it's a great job but don't expect to get paid well.

    this is just my experience others may differ, you should get a balanced view, as one of the other post says contact the MIA, ask them what you should do

    Posted 9 months ago #
12. nickjb - Member

    Just to add a bit more... We were paid OK, not top rates but pretty good but it was expected that you do 10 hours unpaid overtime every week, plus another ten hours at a reduced rate. That was 60 hours EVERY week. On the other side you were generally well kept. Free pizza for dinner, a cleaner for the kitchen so there were no post-it note arguments over the washing up, mostly stuff that kept you working though.

    Posted 9 months ago #
13. billysugger - Member

    M-Sport will show you around if you're serious, one on one, couldn't believe it. Prodrive will take group tours (or would should I say).

    What a place Dovenby Hall is.

    Designers still sit behind desks looking at monitors upstairs but what a downstairs it is. I remember seeing Colin Mcrae's focus he'd rolled in (think it was Rheola) sitting there about 4/5 weeks after I'd seen the aftermath on the stage. Quite surreal. Top guys.

    Posted 9 months ago #
14. alanl6538 - Member

    Civil Engineer too here:-

    Surely you just need to find a different job in construction / work on an interesting project or something? get a job which send you abroad? find a new challenge?

    Long time to retrain / problem of having little experience / need a 1st class masters degree from Cambridge to stand a chance?

    Maybe a life in F1 isn't as glamorous as it sounds? travel to interesting places would be good but fluid mechanics of an exhaust doesn't sound any more interesting than working out forces on a bridge

    maybe I'm ranting but it you have a 5 year degree in a not bad subject! Dream job in F1 might be hard to come by

    Posted 9 months ago #
15. skiboy - Member

    Prodrive are on a recruiting drive at the minute, they have pile of vacancies on their website in the careers section, check it out,

    If anyone one out there knows any highly skilled cnc millers for 3 and 4 axis vertical machining centres then we have two perm vacancies to fill in the Milton Keynes area, work is MOD,science and nuclear, prototypes and small batch , salary negotiable .

    Also coded welders, vacancies for two people permanent, all stainless steel , salary as above ,

    Sorry for the job ad but the right people are hard to find these days

    Posted 9 months ago #
16. skiboy - Member

    My god I just read my last post !! I think I need to spend Sunday all day on the heckler !!!

    Posted 9 months ago #
17. kimbers - Member

    fwiw a work colleague's bloke works for renault (not F1) he loves his job, but involves a lot of traveling during race season and now theyve just had their 1st kid this is causing a serious amount of grief

    Posted 9 months ago #
18. bigjim - Member

    Friend of mine worked for McLaren, incredibly hard work and night shifts etc by the sounds of it but some pretty amazing work too.

    Posted 9 months ago #
19. dave_rudabar - Member

    Friend of mine works for RBR, he does mad hours - was a bit of an effort to get a week off (when they weren't racing) after his 1st kid's birth!
    He and the other ex-Uni mates I have who went into the industry all had 1sts for their degrees & were all naturally very hard workers.
    There's more to motorsport than F1 though, there are plenty of smaller teams doing GP2/GP3, Le Mans, GT Racing, rallying, etc...

    Posted 9 months ago #
20. Macavity - Member

    http://www.jobsite.co.uk/job/kers-coordinator-939595984?src=search

    http://www.jobsite.co.uk/job/mechanical-design-f1-939615035?src=search

    http://www.jobsite.co.uk/job/lead-engineer-chassis-systems-design-939626813?src=search

    http://www.jobsite.co.uk/job/f1-composite-mechanical-design-engineer-v5-939591980?src=search

    http://www.jobsite.co.uk/job/ndt-ut-x-ray-inspector-939584694?src=search

    http://www.jobsite.co.uk/job/composite-kit-cutter-939575079?src=search

    http://www.jobsite.co.uk/job/junior-cad-engineer-939623990?src=search

    Posted 9 months ago #
21. Macavity - Member

    http://www.jobsite.co.uk/job/kers-coordinator-939595984?src=search

    http://www.jobsite.co.uk/job/mechanical-design-f1-939615035?src=search

    http://www.jobsite.co.uk/job/lead-engineer-chassis-systems-design-939626813?src=search

    http://www.jobsite.co.uk/job/f1-composite-mechanical-design-engineer-v5-939591980?src=search

    http://www.jobsite.co.uk/job/ndt-ut-x-ray-inspector-939584694?src=search

    http://www.jobsite.co.uk/job/bi-data-warehouse-developer-formula-one-racing-team-london-939611525?src=search

    http://www.jobsite.co.uk/job/composite-laminator-939638786?src=search

    http://www.jobsite.co.uk/job/composite-kit-cutter-939575079?src=search

    http://www.jobsite.co.uk/job/junior-cad-engineer-939623990?src=search

    Posted 9 months ago #
22. totalshell - Member

    having just read some of the job ads above you realise that you could earn more at tesco supervising the checkouts?

    Posted 9 months ago #
23. Macavity - Member

    Yes.

    Posted 9 months ago #
24. Luminous - Member

    I've worked the mainstream OEM and supplier circuit in road cars for over 15 yrs.
    I design car parts in 3D, currently using Catia.

    Some good insights above. I'd agree that its not normally as glamourous as it appears to be, to Joe Public.
    I know one or two who have worked F1. I've a few mates currently working at Woking.

    When you tell people what you do, they appear to be impressed, then you
    tell them that you've travelled a bit for work and they mention how they'd love to travel as part of their job.
    But its not really that fantastic.
    Standing out the back of Stansted in the depths of winter, in the dark and the rain, on the edge of a wind swept car park at 6:00am waiting for a cab to come get you and take you to the terminal isn't fun.

    Personally I've avoided F1 work. As above, it can be mental hours and there can be alot of pressure to hit certain deadlines.
    (as you can imagine.)
    Heck, its bad enough in road cars these days.
    Working 12 hour days is not uncommon and for me is quite regular at the moment.

    Ultimately its horses for courses.
    But, with the correct determiantion, combined with a bit of luck.
    You might just get to do something.
    So explore your opportunities.
    At least then you know you've tried. No regrets and all that.

    Good luck.

    

    Posted 9 months ago #
25. Amos - Member

    If I were you I'd write off to all the HR departments outlining your experience and expertise. Williams is recruiting at the moment.
    I work at williams and have done for 10 years testing, then racing and now factory based in sub-assembly (gearbox). The pay ten years ago was brilliant especially coming from aircraft but now it's decidedly average as we've not had a decent pay rise In years, and seeing as our performance is declining not likely too. Nickjb summed it up long ours and you are very very undervalued as an employee as the whole take on F1 is "you're lucky you have a job" and my favourite "if you don't like it leave, there are hundreds queuing up for your job" apparently.
    I sound bitter but I'm not it's just how it works. Travelling was fun but very much a single mans game or atleast have an understanding mrs. I used to love testing best time of my life despite the 15 hour days 5 days a week.
    I would love to get out and get into the bike industry and flirt with the idea regularly! (any job offers welcome ;))

    Email in profile if you want any info.

    Cheers Mat

    A

    Posted 9 months ago #
26. Houns - Member

    There is a recruitment agency based not far from me who specialise in the motor industry, have a look

    http://www.jonlee.co.uk/

    Posted 9 months ago #
27. uplink - Member

    Maybe the motorcycle side of things is better these days?

    or maybe not...........

    After I finished racing myself in the 80s, I worked as a mechanic for 3 or 4 good teams finishing up with Yamaha GB, at one point I had a chance to go and work for the full works team in Holland but turned it down after talking to a couple of their guys - too much pressure with not enough fun for me.
    I suppose the days of travelling around Europe from one race to the next in a motorhome has long gone, it was fun whilst it lasted though
    Mind you, I never really got much in the way of money

    Posted 9 months ago #
28. Dino - Member

    Been there got that badge,
    As the others say its not at all like the TV would have you believe.

    [b] Long Hours
    [b] Pay can be good
    [b] Your family will come second
    [b] More of a vocation than a job

    Posted 9 months ago #
29. woody2000 - Member

    My mate is a CATIA specialist/consultant who works with (amongst others) Renault F1. He worked like a slave to get his business off the ground, but he has very definitely made some good money at it, and he's had some opportunities to see the more glamorous side of things too. The barsteward

    Still, he got me a factory tour so I can't complain too much

    Posted 9 months ago #
30. footflaps - Member

    I had a friend who did design on F1 engines for a subcontractor to one of the teams - was paid just above minimum wage and worked 70 hour weeks - he lasted a few years then quit. I couldn't believe how little he was paid and how hard he worked...

    He now designs engines for UAV drones and gets paid a decent wage and works more normal hours...

    Posted 9 months ago #
31. catnash - Member

    Brother in-law worked for team force India, now working for Mercedes. His background was in wind tunnels and aerodynamics at Airbus.

    Posted 9 months ago #
32. andydicko - Member

    There are many jobs within F1, not all necessarily working direct with the Race Teams, it all depends what you want.

    If your have the relevant Degree, i.e. Mechanical Engineering, Aerodynamics, Composite Material etc.... You could possible get a decent job working for the Team.

    If its the Race Team you want there need to be other bases covered, I would definately say an Automotive Apprenticeship (HNC), along with Motorsport Experience, i.e. working with a Race Team (possibly an amateur one) then working your way up. This would give you the relevant experience to work with the Pit Crews, but again its like serving your Apprenticeship again, you need to understand the workings and logistics behind the Team, each individual member has their own duty on race day, the more senior you become, the better the jobs you get, i.e. Hammer Man, Wheel Man, Starter Man.

    Posted 9 months ago #
33. Houns - Member

    I want that blokes job, you know the fella that gives out the caps, water, towels and watches after each race? Yeah i want it. I bet all he does during the race is sit around chatting to the pit girls

    Posted 9 months ago #
34. woody2000 - Member

    Houns - his name is Alexandre Molina. And I want his job too, so get back in line!

    Posted 9 months ago #
35. xiphon - Member

    gridds @ sdh works for Williams IIRC as an engineer.

    Posted 9 months ago #

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