https://fullfact.org/news/are-one-five-british-adults-illiterate/

I find those figures, even the revised ones frankly astonishing.
Perhaps I have led a sheltered life but I have never suspected anyone I have met to be affected.

Having read a few threads on this forum I’m surprised you’re surprised! 😉

Does seem surprising. Most of the travelling community are illiterate. Not sure how many there are but they must make up a good proportion.

A plasterer i work with is completely illiterate…his wife sorts out any paperwork on his behalf.
His boss did offer and pay for him to go to college to learn how to read and write but he gave up as the lads on site ribbed him a lot for doing it as he was in his 50’s.
He has done alright for himself though, mortgage free and i reckon he has a fair few quid in the bank.
I often wonder because of him not being able to read and write has been an advantage to not get into debt and lead a simple life.

Depends on how you define illiterate. I know one person among my friends who has a very poor grasp of spelling, grammar, or punctuation so anything you see by them which is written looks almost childlike, but I wouldn’t consider it illiterate because to my knowledge they read perfectly well and to speak to are extremely engaging, albeit with a basic vocab. And also because anything they do write is still perfectly readable, so who cares there’s an odd dropped capital or misspelled word.

In this age I struggle to comprehend what truly illiterate means. I know that reflects probably on me and my social grouping though.

I have had a few meetings with parents who can’t help S1 pupils with homework as their literacy levels are so poor.

I used to work with someone who couldn’t read or write.
He was the best panel beater I’d ever worked with. He also built his own extension and that was perfect. Whatever he did ,it was always spot on. He even rebuilt the engine on his V4 Honda. Sure , we would have to read for him occasionally but the guy was a genius.
He now owns a holiday park and all I see from him on FB is him and his mates doing track days in Spain.
He’s done alright for himself.

Woman’s profile I saw on a dating site – headline “Want 2 meat”
Oh, maybe that’s what she meant.

I’m not, but I do struggle.
Mainly with numbers, I get all kinda confused while typing them out.

And working in an industry where everything is number based, this can, and has caused confusion..

There’s a town in Berkshire I never visit after seeing that one in five adults have trouble with Reading.

I found the fastest way to destroy a relationship was correcting my girlfriend’s university essay.

Are you trying to tell me that The Who actually don’t live at Leeds?

Yes plenty. Lots of people out there in their 40s and 50s (probably every other age group also) who can barely read or write. Some freely admit it, most will try to cover up. Construction industry has plenty of people like this, I find they often get aggressive when asked to complete paperwork. Usually things like they are too busy, h&s gone mad etc. They are just deflecting from the fact they are unable to and too embarrassed to admit. I’ve offered help to a few who I thought would accept it and they did. I wouldnt bring it up with anyone who didnt admit it but would change tact in my approach to save them the embarrassment.

Are you trying to tell me that The Who actually don’t live at Leeds?

Sir, I salute you.

Are you trying to tell me that The Who actually don’t live at Leeds?

Sir, I salute you.

Took a while that one. For me that is.

I encounter people with either no, or very low levels of reading and writing ability on a fairly regular basis. I am guessing anyone who deals with social services, the justice system, or the third sector organisations that prop up the welfare systems will probably think 1:5 or 1:7 isn’t a totally crazy number! Without doubt there is a segment of society who get trapped in situation that has no easy way out and can become self perpetuating. From their woodburning stove heated T5, its probably difficult for most STWers to understand this! Many are actually very good at hiding it.

However if the definition is “… so poor at reading and writing they struggle to read a medicine label or use a chequebook” then the definition is probably stupid. I can’t remember when I last used a cheque book. I suspect most adults under 30 have never used a cheque book. The meaning of “medicine label” is also very vague – if they mean “NAME … take 3 times a day with food” that is rather different to either (a) most drug names (which cause even science degree educated people to at least pause for the correct pronunciation; or (b) the patient information leaflet which are dense and often complex text.

The ability to read and write is no reflection on intelligence that’s for certain.
I have worked with many who struggle with written instructions, but will do a cracking job.
I think as well there is a generational thing going on. I left school in the late 80’s, and it was very easy to go through school without anyone trying to give you an education.
Also then there wasn’t much point, only 2 lads in my year who’s family didn’t run a farm left school and had a job to go to.
I blame Thatcher.

on, ton a singfe one

“… so poor at reading and writing they struggle to read a medicine label or use a chequebook

I thought that definition was from the daily hate rag that must not be linked too.

Wikipedia (I know, I know) gives “to manage daily living and employment tasks that require reading skills beyond a basic level” Which seems to me a significant raising of the bar.

Seems to be a more accepted definition of functional illiteracy. I remember some young soldiers who would be close to failing under that definition.

Uphill – I don’t think that was the daily mail’s own definition though (that would surely have mentioned immigrants!). I presumed without reading their article that they were quoting one of the made up literacy organisations.

Speshpaul – things may have improved since the 80s but there are definitely people leaving school (16) who struggle with even the basics – like writing their own name, date of birth and signing and dating a form! At some point the education system has given up on them. Many more cope with that sort of stuff but either can’t write a coherent paragraph or read anything but the most basic content.

those who work in social care or with people with special needs probably won’t post it on here, due to px confidentiality.

I have one illiterate patient. She has more pressing problems.

I don’t think I know any at the moment (or rather have any in my social circle) but thinking back, I’ve certainly worked with a few in the construction trade.
Interestingly, some of the most skilled/talented builders/welders I’ve worked with struggled with basic literacy.

My wife is a secondary school teacher, and has taught kids from the traveller community her whole career – the parents are usually illiterate, and see no benefit in their kids learning to read and write because they’ll either be working in the family business (which will be manual labour based) or married/pregnant at 16.

I certainly know of a few (mostly older) people in the farming world who struggle to read or write. I also work/ have association with a number of people whose written communication is borderline due to spelling issues and a complete lack of grammar or punctuation.

I seriously doubt that anyone reading this is illiterate.

the patient information leaflet which are dense and often complex text.

The rules for those leaflets are that they have to be written simply, such that a (can’t quite remember but something like) 12 year old can read them. You may disagree, but the licensing authority won’t let you market a drug unless they’ve checked and approved all such documents

things may have improved since the 80s but there are definitely people leaving school (16) who struggle with even the basics – like writing their own name, date of birth and signing and dating a form! At some point the education system has given up on them

I think one of the problems with the way schools are currently judged and publicly compared, is that it is beneficial for them to ship out pupils who might need a bit more attention.

After 16 years in the prison service I’ve met lots of people who are illiterate, (or sometimes claimed to be.)
Main group were travellers but they seemed to be able to work out money questions better than anyone else.

Scaredypants – the assessment of readability by regulators is usually based on criteria like words per sentence and syllables per word – not sure if pharma follow the same approach. However just because an average 12 yr old should be able to read it doesn’t mean they can comprehend it, nor does it deal with the “non average” ones. There is an assumption there that if an average 12 yr old can read it then all adults can. It’s flawed, a significant proportion of those struggling 12 yr olds go on to be one struggling adults. People in Pharma or pharma regulations are almost certainly not the best people to evaluate the understandability of pharma documents.

In any case though – if the test is read medicine label – it is rather different reading a two inch square label with a dozen words on it or reading an A4 sheet with thousands of words.

Guy that used to service the family’s cars was illiterate. He was a coach mechanic by trade and grew up in a gypsy family so never really went to school.

Tough as old boots, memory of an elephant and a decent mechanic, but always got paid in cash. His wife sorted out all the paperwork.

Main group were travellers but they seemed to be able to work out money questions better than anyone else.

Question of priorities?

Both my brothers are illiterate through their disabilities. One more so than the other due to Leeds city council deciding to close down the special school and send all the students to normal schools that were ill equipped for their needs. My younger basically attended school but got little in the way of an education other than how to be bullied.
They have both worked since leaving school but in mainly manual labour jobs. With lots of hard work one has passed his driving licence and gone onto do his HGV class 2 but then struggled doing any kind of deliveries due to the paperwork. He works on trucks that are classed as plant machinery so works mainly operating the huge jetting trucks. The other brother managed to do his motorbike licence but it took many attempts and an instructor with a great deal of patience to get him to a standard to pass the test.

I am guessing anyone who deals with social services, the justice system, or the third sector organisations that prop up the welfare systems will probably think 1:5 or 1:7 isn’t a totally crazy number!

Yup.

I sold an old van of mine to a traveller who couldn’t read/write. Paid me with a wad of £20’s so I was happy.

I know someone who I’d describe as functionally illiterate, but many aren’t aware. He will get you to read stuff out without you even thinking about it and I only recently realised that he uses Siri for texting.

Yes.
Quite at lot of my mates. Education back then was pretty minimal & aimed at producing factory fodder employees

Used to do agency work in my summer break from uni back home in dunstable

Some of the other workers struggled, not necessarily older ones either.

was a contrast going back to uni, think it made me appreciate what I took for granted

had suspicisons about the landlady in our local. could add up ok, but couldn;t use the computerised till.

if the till got changed you’d get undercharged and she litterally couldn’t do anytihng about it. Saw her feign it’s not working’ / ‘haven’t got my glasses’ too many times.

must be tough to deal with changing world if you can’t read. EG. the brewery suddenly bring in a computerised till.

Had a friend who stopped reading with his kids while they were still in infants, because he couldn’t read their books. He was a couple of years older than me, was a bit of a tearaway* when a kid and just got chucked in to the local special needs school.

He was really intelligent – give him a broken thing and he could fix it.

*car thief

My cousin and most of her family (her, husband and 3 out of her 5 kids) are illiterate, but then they are pure Jeremy Kyle family and we avoid them at all costs!

Have worked with one or two people who were obviously illiterate too, young and old ones. It’s probably a lot more common than people think.

@poly – I think they try moderately hard. Think it was a version of this that I’d seen/used previously:
best-practice-guidance-on-patient-information-leaflets
includes

The user test (or other form of consultation with target patient groups) will then be assessed. The assessor will be looking for evidence that the participants in the test have been able to first find and then understand those key safety messages identified prior to undertaking the testing. The suitability of subjects will be considered by the assessor and you will need to make sure sufficient detail is provided in the report concerning their background and their relevance to the target patient population for the medicine in question.

Participants should not be used more frequently than once every six months to take part in such testing.

The MHRA will be flexible in the application of the success criteria. However, where the data indicate that patients experience difficulties with particular questions, revisions to the way in which the information is expressed may be required.