Hi,

I am looking at getting a new CX bike i have three options

Aluminium, Carbon or Titanium.

I already know most of the basics on these materials, ive read most of the articles on this question. What i really want to know is:

have you ever broken a carbon frame by overloading it? e.g hitting a potthole or taking a 4ft drop?

Have you ever broken a carbon frame through secondary failure? (e.g a rock hitting the frame and weakening, chain suck , chain whip etc)

Have you raced and won/done well on a Ti frame?

Is a Ti frame stiff enough for racing? Does low stiffness actually slow you down, surely its just a spring?

Ok thats enough. the thing is i can get an OEM carbon frameset for £370, Ti will be more like £430 for frame only.

Cheers,

Mike

have you ever broken a carbon frame by overloading it? e.g hitting a potthole or taking a 4ft drop?

Are you kidding?? If you ever take a 4ft frop on a cross bike I hope it’s by accident. They are, after all, designed for racing round muddy playing fields for an hour.

A carbon cross frame at the 3 Peaks which broke on a grassy, tussocky downhill section:

Yeah, but just because it’s carbon doesn’t mean it’ll break or that it wouldn’t have broken if it was made out of anything else. There’s more to a bike than just what it’s made out of.

I’ve had a 531 cx bike since 96, an aluminium one for 2 years, and on Friday I’ll be getting a plastic one. I’ve never seen anything sensible break unless its been abused.

I’ve had carbon bikes for nearly three years (mtb’s). I’ve been to the Alps twice as well as doing enduro’s and 24hr events. But as someone else has said its not what its made out per say its more how well its made. Any bike will break if you exceed what its designed for. 4ft drops on a cross bike are not what they are designed for.

thanks for the advice. I do use my CX bike for all offroading at the moment, I have never dropped a CX bike over a 4ft drop, but wouldnt be concerned doing a 2 or 3ft drop on the one i have. If bikes are designed like anything else they should have quite big safety factors for overloading.
has anyone seen a similar Ti frame failure (not a welding joint failure)?

i suppose thurman’s photo answers the first question.

But does anyone use Ti for racing?

but wouldnt be concerned doing a 2 or 3ft drop on the one i have.

For real? Good luck with that, then.

They are, after all, designed for racing round muddy playing fields for an hour.

Lots of people use Ti frames for racing.

1st place solo at Dusk Til Dawn under Steve Webb.

I think this is starting to paint a picture, maybe more about my innapropriate riding style…

What tyres are you landing 3 ft drops on?
Rob Jebb raced on a Litespeed for a number of years…

Maxxis larsen 35mm front, continental twister 32mm. Dont get me wrong, i wouldnt do any of this at significant speed. the annoying thing is i probably wouldnt worry about carbon, if i hadnt had my first race crash in a year yesterday and bent my front wheel (the CF forks still survived)

A 2ft to 3ft drop on a cross bike with skinny rims and tyres is perilous to the bike at whatever speed.

seen a few Ti framed MTB bikes brake for no real reason, put me off spending money on one for sure. seen carbon bars snap so not having them either. i’m currently still abusing a scandium kona!
so i’m recommending scandium! or plain ol aluminium

yeah, because aluminiun never breaks 🙄

I’ve seen all types of material break, steel, Ti and carbon, and plastic and aluminium. Stuff breaks all the time, each is as likely to break as the next (or un-likely for that matter). Trying to choose a frame material for it’s “non breaking properties” is the preserve of the stupid.

Have you raced and won/done well on a Ti frame?

It’s not about the bike, some-one once said that, can’t quite think who it was…

I race on Ti cross frames. I win the odd one here and there and can just about squeeze myself into the top 20 in the senior race at the Nationals.
I’ve also broken a Ti cross frame in the past (not at a weld). But then again I’ve broken ally and steel cross, road and MTB frames as well, and a carbon road frame.

Ti is more than stiff enough for racing on if it’s built properly.

But does anyone use Ti for racing?

As above, a properly designed/made ti frame will race as well as a properly designed/made frame of any material (not that an average one will actually slow you donwn, don’t believe the hype).

How confident are you of the design of the OEM frames you are considering?

Think I read an article about someone using a titaniun Bianchi to win the Paris-Roubaix painted up in their celeste blue.

Steel/carbon/titanium can be built up however you want it – massively springy, stiff as a board. It’s not really the material, it’s how much and what you do with it. Plenty of ti frames raced on, though I suspect becuase the big brands are into carbon fibre at the moment the majority of racers will be on CF, not necessarily the best option but you get what you are given by the person paying your wages.

I broke an aluminium cross bike (not at a weld) and also an aluminium MTB (again not a weld)

I have had and not broken:
Ti MTB
2 Steel MTB
2 Alu MTB
3 Alu road bike
Alu/carbon TT bike
Magnesium MTB (TBH I think the alloy is mostly aluminium anyway)
Carbon MTB

Was always a bit dubious about carbon MTB, it’s not the snapping I was worried about, that can happen to any bike, it was things like rock strikes, carbon doesn’t dent! But it’s been fine.

I think in our little league all the wins have been on aluminium and one Ti.
The only cross bikes I’ve seen broken are someone else’s carbon frame and my 531 frame.

Cheers for the useful advice on racing Ti frames. I am not basing my decision of material on the expectation of whether it will be unbreakable or whether it will magically make me win. However, In all the CX races ive done i havent seen anyone riding Ti in the top end of the field, as someone says this is sometimes because they are given a CF bike to ride.

Im not sure about the OEM manufacture, apprently they produce frames for some big brands, and theyre willing customize it with oversized tubing, reshaping the tube section at the Bottom bracket and headtube. They can also put disc mounts, bottle bosses, mudguard bosses etc on it. they are using the cheaper of the two common titanium alloys, 6% aluminium i think.

Cheers

Mike

If its 6Al/4V – that’s the expensive grade I’d have thought that it’d be more likely to be either CP or 3Al/2.5V.
Well, I’m thinking about buying a full carbon cx frameset on Friday to cheer me up after the spending review announcement tomorrow.

It is the 3Al/2.5V alloy

This is the manufacturer:

http://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/titanproducts/product-detailJonxmOzGFcWQ/China-Titanium-Road-Frame.html

http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00rCIaoHdPfKcy/Titanium-Road-Frame.jpg

However, In all the CX races ive done i havent seen anyone riding Ti in the top end of the field

That isn’t because it’s no good, but because it’s harder to get hold of a cross frame in Ti than it is to pick up one of the myriad available in aluminium (and now carbon).
Cross is a small market and an expensive Ti frame isn’t going to sell in huge numbers.

That isn’t because it’s no good, but because it’s harder to get hold of a cross frame in Ti than it is to pick up one of the myriad available in aluminium (and now carbon).

I’d of thought it was more to do with carbon and aluminium generally being cheaper and lighter, btw what Ti cx frame is £430?

Aluminium frames are cheaper, definitely. Carbon? Not so sure. Mine were custom-made to my geometry by a well-known cross manufacturer for less than the price of a Kinesis C-Six or a Kuota Kross.