How odd it looks, from this side of the Atlantic, that the British might be about to plunge a fatal knife into their prime minister.

Just a few weeks ago, Gordon Brown was corralling the rest of the world’s leaders in the desperately complicated but desperately needed effort to re-shape global finance. Even today, the conversation here is about how Brown masterfully steered the UK away from catastrophe during last autumn’s financial panic, in contrast to the confusion and interminable policy switches of two US administrations.

While the world is just tiptoeing out of this crisis, it looks simply perverse to ditch a leader who took his country unburned through that fire, and who is most engaged in the effort to prevent such a fire from igniting again.

Brown’s alleged sluggish response to an expenses scandal that has not touched him personally and is only a few weeks old, his apparent inability to “connect” to the British people on a personal level – these things seem trivial compared to the great issues or failings that should bring down world leaders. It looks from here as if Britain is in the grip of a political anarchy.

It sounds from the headlines of the past few days that Brown would struggle to run the management committee of a church fete, let alone a cabinet and a major world government. But that was not what business and political leaders here saw when he was in New York and Washington in March, laying the groundwork for the G20 economic summit meeting.

Then we saw a man totally on top of his subject, capable of steering not just the UK economy but also the global financial system through the treacherous waters that must be crossed in the next few years. A breakfast audience of Wall Street bigwigs and political grandees expressed surprise not just at the depth of his analysis of what has gone so wrong with global capitalism, but with the number and sophistication of his ideas for reforming the international financial architecture.

There was no sign of the hesitations and sluggishness of which Brown stands accused back in the UK, where every last move of his now seems to be interpreted through that unfair prism.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/stephen-foley-ditching-brown-looks-crazy-from-here-1697248.html

Discuss 😛

Please God NO!

It is certainly true that his handling of the financial crisis has been far better than many on here would accept and across the globe he is considered to have done well in his financial management.

Unfortunately once the tory press have their hooks into you it is very hard to come back.

This is not to say that he has not had major mistakes – the first of which was not going for a total refresh of the government once he got the prime ministers job. He should have signalled a change in direction at that point with new faces in the cabinet.

I think a part of the issue is also as I have seen many many times – once a government has been in power for more than ten years they simply run out of steam – hence my comments about he should have refreshed the government when he got the job.

*stands back and awaits the stream of vitriol from the Brown haters on here*

Ill add to that that once you have lost the confidence of the people around you and the public at large there is no easy way back either no matter if you deserve the reputation you have got or not

Unfortunately once the tory press have their hooks into you it is very hard to come back.

Tory press getting the hooks in here, TJ….

Labour has a year left before an election; its current leader would waste it. It is time to cut him loose.

O.K. I give up!

The issue here is that Brown is just lucky or unlucky dependant on the geo-political fiscal climate at anyone time. Injecting cash into an economy, printing more banknotes and holding on for grim death are not the hallmarks of great leadership but of a politician and indeed a political system that has been found out. Gone is the ‘Iron Chancellor’ image and in has come the sad, contemtuous little fact the GB is all at sea in a globilised economy it has little sway over.

Frankly we would be better to build war ships and invade small defenseless countries with savages armed to the teeth with sharpened Guava fruit – at least we would stand a chance!

Brown is being judged, by the braying tory masses, on his personality not on his ability. He’s doomed because people don’t like him.

To our eternal shame, the Americans seem to have more political and intellectual nous than we do.

I don’t see what he’s done that he should go for.

Financial crisis caused by US financial institutions was hardly his fault and he handled it reasonably well, everyone who I know in finance thinks so.

And WTF does he have to do with the endemic expenses fiddling, they all appear equally guilty of that.

So i’m kinda lost why people want him out.

Unfortunately once the tory press have their hooks into you it is very hard to come back.

agreed, despite the overall good reputaion of journalistic-ness the uk has, I find it increasingly hard to have any clear idea what our politicians are really like or how ludicrous their actions really are. Though I am sure the few non-tory papers are just as clever in their portrayals of the conservatives.

I don’t see what he’s done that he should go for.

Financial crisis caused by US financial institutions was hardly his fault and he handled it reasonably well, everyone who I know in finance thinks so.

And WTF does he have to do with the endemic expenses fiddling, they all appear equally guilty of that.

So i’m kinda lost why people want him out.

And I’m kinda lost as to what you’d replace him with – they are all freeloading muppets.

This statement…

Brown’s alleged sluggish response to an expenses scandal that has not touched him personally

… call into question the accuracy of the rest of the piece.

And I’m kinda lost as to what you’d replace him with

Completely agree. For the sake of this country I just hope that he can stall a GE for long enough so that people come to their senses and don’t install a Tory govt. Even a hung parliament would do.

druidh – what allegations have you heard about Brown over expenses? The thing about his brother and the cleaning was perfectly reasonable once you heard the explanation. Know of owt else?

To our eternal shame, the Americans seem to have more political and intellectual nous than we do.

A similar thing happened after the Wall Street Crash and the start of the Great Depression. The United States swung decisively to the Left, whilst most of the rest of the world (except Scandinavia) swung to the Right. Including of course, the rise of Fascism.

A right-wing reaction is normal during a financial crises, as people panic and think only of their own survival : ‘sod everyone else, I’m taking care of myself and my family’ sort of attitude.

Of course this solves nothing, and people soon realised that progress can only occur when society pulls together. So when it became obvious that right-wing ideology would never provide the solutions, the world swung to the Left.

By the end of the global recession in the late 30s and early 40s, support for Socialism had reached it’s peak.

“History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce.” – Karl Marx

TJ – You might ask why he should be allowed to claim any sort of 2nd home allowance while is is living in “grace and favour” premises in Downing Street. Legal? – almost certainly. Moral?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Good point Druidh I don’t have any of the details to hand however

Of course you should respect and be grateful to the arsonist who sets fire to your house if he then does a reasonable job of trying to put the blaze out.

despite the overall good reputaion of journalistic-ness the uk has

hee hee, I find this quite amusing – it wasn’t a journalist that reckons that is it?!

you might ask why he should be allowed to claim any sort of 2nd home allowance while is is living in “grace and favour” premises in Downing Street.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5456789/mps-expenses-Gordon-Brown-billed-taxpayer-for-two-second-homes.html

Biscuit Powered – Member

Of course you should respect and be grateful to the arsonist who sets fire to your house if he then does a reasonable job of trying to put the blaze out.

Que? It was not browns fault that american banks had got loads of toxic debt was it?

Que? It was not browns fault that american banks had got loads of toxic debt was it

[irony]Of course it was. He’s a one eyed Scottish socialist. Everything’s his fault.[/irony]

trailmonkey – Member

> Que? It was not browns fault that american banks had got loads of toxic debt was it

Of course it was. He’s a one eyed Scottish socialist. Everything’s his fault.

Enough of that Mr TM. How dare you call him a Socialist.

fair shout

No but its his fault the country was in so much debt going into the crisis that paying off that plus what he’s spent on saving the banks will take us the next 30 years to pay off.

He’s also spent the last 7 years pouring money into unreformed public services which is the equivalent of trying to pump up a punctured tyre.

Oh and every year he dips his filthy mitts into our pension funds and over the last 10 years has helped himself to 100 billion contributing massively to the decline of a pension system that was the envy of the world whilst the public sector sit on unfunded final salary schemes.

Is that enough to be going on with?

I’m not a fan of politicians, but i’m even less a fan of the media in this country and the way it presents complex issues and politicians. There are a number of issues as i see it:

1 – too many journalists don’t understand the the major issues, or at least can’t portray their complexity to their readers/viewers/listeners

2 – as a result they either dumb down or go for easy hits. You can see this in how they return to personality issues and the ‘Westminster village’.

3 – speaking of which, the going in the Westminster Village get far too much focus, obscuring a) the complexity of major issues and b) the outcomes of government actions.

It is a vicious circle. The important thing in politics, since the early nineties (but increasing every year, is not what you do but how what you do is perceived by, in and through the media. As we all know, this means that the main difference between political parties is how they portray themselves to the media. Brown isn’t photogenic or an effective (modern) communicator, Cameron is. However, Brown is so intellectually superior to Cameron it is frightening. Unfortunately that doesn’t matter.

This situation is looking like 96-97 all over again. The young, media savvy leader of the opposition is taking lumps out of the government. The big difference, of course, is the size of the Govt. majority and the fact that the Tories have no policies. But that doesn’t seem to matter because, as mentioned, Labour looks tired and out of ideas. The battle is who can fake their lack of ideas the best.

I’m not a Labour supporter – never voted for them – but it scares me the Tories might get into power. Look at how lost they were during the financial meltdown. Osbourne is a numpty, he went to his text books to try and understand what has happening. Brown got it, and catalysed action (albeit after a little too long to seem dynamic). Not only do the Tories look lost on the big issues, but they have no substantive policies, just ‘flavours’ and generalities. But, that doesn’t matter because Cameron looked dynamic by kicking out the old Tory guard during the expenses furore. BTW, he did that because of the divisions in the party, not because of their claims.

If the global economy takes an upturn at the turn of the new year, Brown will get the credit he deserves. If it doesn’t he and Labour will be gone, and we’ll be stuck with a Blair wannabe with no ideas.

Enough rubbish and pish you mean? everything you said in that is wrong – whether in fact or open to alternative interpretations.

No point in debating it with you tho – you mind is obviously closed

No but its his fault the country was in so much debt going into the crisis that paying off that plus what he’s spent on saving the banks will take us the next 30 years to pay off.

Debt has increased (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2009/mar/01/government-borrowing-economy1), but it won’t really matter that much once the economy recovers. A lot of debt will be cleared once the banks we part own get sold off (potentially with a profit), and as long as you can show growth the government will still be able to fund their spending (look at the levels of US debt as an example).

As for public services, it always amazes me how people can forget the state of the NHS and schools in the 1990s. I’m not saying they don’t need reform, but they are a lot better than they were.

I’ll concede he’s a good been counter, but a leader needs to be so much more than that.

Is that enough to be going on with?

You best inform the new US administration of Gordon Brown’s economic incompetence uponthedowns.

Because apparently they are highly impressed by him.

Still, what do the yanks know about running a successful capitalist economy, eh uponthedowns ?

1 – too many journalists don’t understand the the major issues, or at least can’t portray their complexity to their readers/viewers/listeners

2 – as a result they either dumb down or go for easy hits. You can see this in how they return to personality issues and the ‘Westminster village’.

3 – speaking of which, the going in the Westminster Village get far too much focus, obscuring a) the complexity of major issues and b) the outcomes of government actions.

Hits nail on the head!

The sad thing is, there seems to be an awful lot of thick & ignorant people around who don’t, or choose not to, recognise this.

When you are bombarded with one perspective week after week it is hard to recognise it, it becomes hegemonic.

Tories look lost on the big issues, but they have no substantive policies, just ‘flavours’ and generalities.

That’s premature. As has often been said there’s no point a Tory party putting forward a detailed “manifesto” until a GE is called and a manifesto can be published that cant get appropriated by the government. When they have brought forward populist proposals (inheritance tax threshold raising), they’ve been adopted resignedly, by the government to stiffle the blindside.

Once they have produced a manifesto for the next General Election, then Im all for a good ding dong on how shallow/unfunded/fascist etc their policies are.

That’s premature. As has often been said there’s no point a Tory party putting forward a detailed “manifesto” until a GE is called and a manifesto can be published that cant get appropriated by the government.

You actually buy that argument? What that means is the only tactic the opposition has is to criticise Government policy… that is it: “That is bad, that is wrong, we wouldn’t do that.” OK, why? And what would you do? That isn’t effective opposition, no matter what they and the media say.

And, saying things like ‘efficiency savings are required’ a) isn’t a policy and b) translates as sacking people.

Phew I find the general sentiment of this thread quite refreshing, I’ve been quite annoyed by the recent kickings browns had, he doesn’t have self confidence etc, I want somme one who knows what to do not some smarmy git who’s only talent is spin. (not a very well articulated post but I’m busy packing for the alps!)

You actually buy that argument?

TBH I have no idea, as it’s one that cant be tested until the next GE.

Also, opposition is to hold to account, not provide detailed policy alternatives. Labour never managed it in opposition either, but they were an excellent opposition because they were always snapping at the heels of the government. Thats certainly where the conservatives have been lacking for the last 12 years until very recently.

b) translates as sacking people.

that’s a policy in my book.

Policy 1 – sack people in the NHS. Not sure where, but we’ll definitely be making a few thousand unemployed. Best wait until we’re the only option to say this, and blame it on Labour. If asked for more specific talk about a targets culture, middle management inefficiency, directing the saving to front line services, and get a photo op with tired looking nurses.

Policy 2 – best wait until there is less than 6 month until the election to think up another… oh, i’ve got one!

Policy 3 – look young and dynamic.

contributing massively to the decline of a pension system that was the envy of the world

We had a fine pension system once upon a time. It was based around huge numbers of workers paying into a big NI pot. Sadly, someone came along and decided to do away with this huge NI paying workforce and replace it with a smaller workforce many of whom would be self employed sub contractors paying less in the way of NI.

I wonder who’s bright idea that was ?

No point in debating it with you tho – you mind is obviously closed

As is yours TJ!

It was based around huge numbers of workers paying into a big NI pot. Sadly, someone came along and decided to do away with this huge NI paying workforce and replace it with a smaller workforce many of whom would be self employed sub contractors paying less in the way of NI.

Guess you mean shipbuilding, coal mining, steel production and car manufacture. Inefficient industries that couldn’t survive without subsidy.

National insurance receipts since 2001 (£63bn) have grown to £97bn (prov) in 2009 – driven by tax increases as well as salary increases. A total increase of 56% or 6% pa (compound)