not about me but my wife…
she is currently on maternity leave and due to go back next month, but she applied for another job at the same place she works at(NHS finance)and had the interview on friday..they rang her this morning to say she was unsuccessful…
she has found out who has got the job though…a girl she trained up herself to cover some of her work while she was off…the girl has only been working there for just over a year whereas my wife has been there for 4 years and was on a higher salary…the girl who got the job doesnt have the qualifications for the post whereas my wife is CIMA qualified…she thinks there is something underhand in this appointment as she has been overlooked for someone who is far less qualified and experienced to carry out the role…
anyone know what her options are now other than leaving the organisation?

She should start off by asking for feedback.

the only feedback they gave her was that there was a candidate that gave more in depth answers…what’s more surprising is that she is on a band 4 salary applying for a band 6, but the girl who got the job was on a band 3…my wife thinks the feedback and reason were pretty lame and that another senior director who hates her for some reason has had a hand in this…they already screwed her over once when they made her current post a band 5 salary for the maternity cover while she has been off…

If she does not have the qualifications then she may have a point but as noted ask for feedback

Please note an interview is there to discriminate between people- it is what they do. Was it a better interview for example? IMHO it will be hard to prove an unfair discrimination[ gender, race, sexuality etc] when they are both the same gender

Angering your employer is rarely a good idea
Chat first with them and then decide

Not getting a job sucks but the reason may be that you were just not the best candidate or that it was nepotism/discrimination.

IME HR never leave a smoking bullet when they do this [ nepotism] – Union rep not HR

sounds almost exactly the same storey as my wife

her junior with less experience, less qualifications (which were detailed in the Job description) got the job. My wife even said she’d come back from maternity leave early, oh and she’d covered almost exactly the same roll for somebody else on maternity leave the year before and got nothing but positive feedback. Her junior jumped 2 or 3 pay grades over her (local council).

she’s not looking forward to going back to work in 3 weeks.

stinks but nothing you can prove unless the boss actually said something, even then your word against there’s.

chuff all you can do imo 🙁

Difficult really to say really, but getting feedback would be the first thing to do.

Qualifications and experience aren’t the only reason for offering someone a job, although common sense suggests that the person with the most would be a good candidate.

They interviewed her, she wasn’t selected
Why is that discrimination?
Maybe the successful candidate interviewed better/ showed off their added value better. Just because you have an interview, doesn’t mean you have the right to a job – even if you are on maternity leave.

There is lots of supposition in the reasons “why”. So, the other candidate was on band 3, she’s not costing any less in the new position is she ?
For whatever reason , it was not to be …

Does the new appointee have kids?

As for nepotism in the NHS: it happens. My partner is just about to lose his job due to anxiety/depression and a bullying atmosphere. His boss was useless and unhelpful.

He couldn’t complain to *her* boss really as her boss is her husband, who had re-organised the department last year and lo! There she was in that job.

I work for a major IT organisation and if that happened here the husband would have been thrown out on his ear immediately for nepotism or at least conflict of interest. 😕

They interviewed her, she wasn’t selected
Why is that discrimination?

maybe because when she returns her post will revert to a band 4 salary but her maternity cover was paid at a higher level for doing the same job…she met the girl who was covering for her during the handover period before she left….unqualified and inexperienced for the job…when she queried this (after she was given reassurances that the salary would stay the same) they stonewalled her and the director who reassured her went back on her word and denied everything. she feels the decision to offer the post to someone with less experience and qualifications has been down to this very same director…she also applied for another post there at the same time and again they interviewed her and turned her down (that was the week before…
incidentally the job spec did say that it was essential to have relevant finance qualifications and a minimum working experience of 2 years in NHS finance…the girl who gt the job has been there for a years and this was her first job out of college (never went to uni)…so for someone to get in ahead with 12 months experience and no qualifications over someone with 10 years experience with the relevant experience…..seems to me like there is something very fishy going on…but like you said without a smoking gun there’s very little she can do

Does the new appointee have kids?

she’s only 19…still a kid herself…

there could be a case of nepotism as the girl who got the job, her brother in law did that very job until he left last year…
seeing as my wife trained her up in the first place…no doubt when things start to go wrong…she’ll come running to her to ask her to fix things for her

Applying for several jobs suggests you just what “a better job” not “this was the one I really wanted” …
She has the right to ask for feedback, express her disappointment – but it’s still not discrimination.

At the end of the day, they may have chosen the younger girl for all the right reasons – she was the best candidate.

As a recruiting manager you may see all the internal applications someone has made.

Last role I hired for I saw someone with 47 applications, the covering letter was essentially spam. They didn’t get an interview

I hired a person with less experience than others because I saw the potential in the person and they demonstrated a stong desire to do the job.

Is that discrimination?

they both applied for the same 2 jobs that came up….hardly demonstrates desperation…

she’s only 19…still a kid herself…

Maybe so, but the 19 year old might not have any children (or certainly during her interview, mentioned she has no plans for the next 5-10 years, and wants to focus on her career instead.)

From a managers perspective:

Children = Time off work to deal with their sickness, school holiday cover, doctors/dentist/hospital appointments for them…. the list goes on for reasons not to employ someone who’s got children vs. not.

In other words, from a managers perspective – staff with children (especially young ones) are *potentially* a real pain in the backside. I have a colleague who’s kids (aged 11 + 12) keep running away from school (or not bother to turn up in the morning). He commutes by train (1hr 15m from home to office), yet constantly has to rush back home to sort them out. From a staffing point of view, he’s a nightmare.

Unfair? Yes, I don’t disagree with you.

Reality? You seem to be experiencing the unfairness.

Xiphon that thought process is discriminatory. Any question about family plans are verboten.

Whoever said life was fair?

How many highly experienced middle managers stay middle managers rather than being appointed Directors, despite the fact that are older and have more experience than the newly appointed Director.

That’s the problem one faces in large organisations….your face fits or it doesn’t for too many reasons to mention.

Having been in the “hiring manager”s shoes a few times, I’d say around 50% of those who failed to get a job were convinced they’d been the subject of unfair discrimination, even when feedback was offered/given. Some folk are just so self-confident they can’t see past themselves.

So let’s get this right. Your wife and another person applied for a job, the other candidate gave better in depth answers?

Right where’s the discrimination apart from you thinking at 19 the candidate is too young?

Speak to union rep- hopefully they’ll stick up for your missus but doesn’t always happen like that in the Nhs.

Right where’s the discrimination apart from you thinking at 19 the candidate is too young?

The bit where the other person doesn’t have the minimum required experience and qualifications specified on the job description perhaps?

Is she in a union?

Quite simply, your wife was not the most suitable candidate for the job, in the eyes of the people hiring.

@Sandwich – yes, I agree it is, but sometimes unavoidable (Interviewers know Candidate A has been on maternity leave and has two young children at home – vs. – Candidate B is single, has vocalised previously they wish to put their career before family, etc etc.). One of the major downsides to internal candidates, is the interviewers sometimes know too much about the candidates – and can’t base their decision solely on CV and interview.

@grum – Perhaps the “minimum requirements” is a guideline, but they felt the 19 year old was more suited to the role, regardless of what’s on her CV.

The bit where the other person doesn’t have the minimum required experience and qualifications specified on the job description perhaps?

That’s not discrimination, they know both candidates sounds to me like they wanted the other candidate as they think she’s better for the job. Giving a better interview at 19 is impressive and they’ve probably seen how she works given she already works there.

You might as well claim the interviewer was sexually motivated and hired the other candidate because they were having affairs outside of work.

I mean, you know, really put the cat amongst the pigeons.

That’s not discrimination,

I have a first aid certificate should I apply to be a paramedic?

It not discrimination but it is not objective either…Not aware of anywhere you can shortlist if you dont have the qualifications

Not worth stressing over in my opinion. So many things can determine if you get the job, ive seen unqualified immediate family members get the job!

If it was always completely objective – based on qualifications, length of experience etc, there would be no need for interviews. 😀

If it was always completely objective – based on qualifications, length of experience etc, there would be no need for interviews.

Given how we keep hearing that most jobs get dozens of (often well qualified) applications – how does someone who doesn’t meet the minimum requirements even get an interview? Or was this only advertised internally?

Maybe your missus went in there with the attitude that she would walk it, gave too short, incomplete answers, did not show enough enthusiasm for the role.
Suck it up, move on.
Employers want to see what you do when you DONT get the job, just as much as when you do.

Hopw can you discriminate against someone not getting the job, she didnt gert the job because the other girl got it, for better answers probably and not being off on maternity leave for a few months, and your wife already having a job to possibly walkback into, thats if she stays there or gets transfered somewhere else.

For Adam W, when i worked in the NHS, partners or wives where not allowed to work with each other or be in direct control of each other, eg managing each other.

They where always seperated or told to apply for another job.

Some people interview better than others.

I applied for a job recently and despite having lots more experience than the guy who got it, my interview wasn’t as strong as the other candidate.

Some people just give the right answers.

Or because the 19 yr old is hot? 😀

Or because she is easier to order around and has bag of energy to work long hour? Well, she is 19 so they are going to take away her leisure life knowing that she is in her early career and put her to hard labour in the dept? No?

Whereas an experience person might have a set mind which can be difficult to change … or simply they are not hot enough. I bet the 19yr old wear camel toe leggings / tights whatever that is …

A hot person usually gets the job … 🙄

I have a first aid certificate should I apply to be a paramedic?

Of course you can but you’ll have to do the 2 years training and then prove to our registration body that you are capable. That’s assuming you get through the application process.

I have a first aid certificate should I apply to be a paramedic?

Of course you can but you’ll have to do the 2 years training and then prove to our registration body that you are capable. That’s assuming you get through the application process.

But you do get to drive a transit fast, wear a green romper suit,be abused, be sick on, screamed at, and told you took your time didnt you.

and if youre relly lucky get to appear on a tv show with a pixelated face.

Oh and you may actually get someone who says “THANKYOU “once in a while.

I have a first aid certificate should I apply to be a paramedic?

Of course you can but you’ll have to do the 2 years training and then prove to our registration body that you are capable. That’s assuming you get through the application process.

But you do get to drive a transit fast, wear a green romper suit,be abused, be sick on, screamed at, and told you took your time didnt you.

and if youre relly lucky get to appear on a tv show with a pixelated face.

Oh and you may actually get someone who says “THANKYOU “once in a while.

Thank You

Sounds more like a case of suck it up, man up and move on I’m afraid. Maybe its down the fact that the young ‘un just came across better – she actually wanted the job, willing to work for less, is already part of the team and if she’s given a better interview at 19 then good on her!! It’s about time younger, enthusiastic people were given a chance based on real life experience rather than what’s on paper or time spent working there…

I’ve been in similar situations before (i think) where I’ve got the job based on merit & enthusiasm yet being under qualified & having less experience than other candidates… Possibly down the fact that I’d work for less and less commitments. Yeah it pissed people off but I wanted that job..

The 19yr old may have been selected for the job as she has shown willingness by covering a higher band, has proved herself and is also aware that the cover is coming to an end and hence there is a reason to look for another job.

I’d be pretty upset if I applied for a job and it was given to someone else on the basis they were older and more experienced and therefore somehow more important than myself, especially if I had gone in to cover higher roles etc.

You might as well claim the interviewer was sexually motivated and hired the other candidate because they were having affairs outside of work.

sorry that wont work as its well documented at work that he plays for the other team…

Given how we keep hearing that most jobs get dozens of (often well qualified) applications – how does someone who doesn’t meet the minimum requirements even get an interview? Or was this only advertised internally?

it was done internally but like you said regardless of how it was advertised if you are going to have criteria to base all applicants on why interview anyone who doesnt meet that criteria…

also just to be clear…the role she applied for is part of a team where all the staff members work reduced hours as they are all parents…my wife had already had her request for reduced hours upon her return to work agreed and there was no issue around this…
the feedback she got was that she interviewed brilliantly and scored the highest on the test…they said the other girl gave more in depth answers on two questions – data sourcing and multitasking…

also the director who has a vendetta against my wife because she questioned her decision to make the maternity cover for her existing role to a higher grade before returning it to the lower grade on her return also used to be friends with one of my wife’s other friends…but since they have fallen out she has been increasingly frosty towards her because my wife’s relationship with her….we know this is the case but its hard to prove…this same director has had a very influential role in the recruitment process…