Digital SLR info: buy now or wait for new stuffs?

more importantly where are elfins pics?

I’ve bin out, soz.

Actually, as a result of this thread, I took my basic dijical compact out to take some pix; give myself a challenge, look at stuff with a photographic eye.

I’m too tired now to sort out anything tonight, but I’ll have a rummage through tomorrow, and post some stuff up on here.

Found using the compact quite frustrating, as it’s pretty limited compared to a nice SLR cam, and I will unashamedly be Photoshopping like a bastard, To produce the results that I envisaged, rather than what the cam has actually produced. With fillum, I knew how to produce the kind of result I wanted, with the cam, fillum, printing etc. So PS is no different really in that regard. Although I’d usually get things ‘right’ on fillum rather than have to resort to loads of post production. Different processes though. Different approaches.

There’s nowt Earth-shattering, nowt I’m that excited about, felt quite ‘rusty’ tbh, but the most important thing, more important than any result, was that I had fun.

And that’s why I want to start up again.

Elf, out of interest, are you familiar with DxO? They keep sending me mails about a product that applies loads of film effects and emulations…

Took my waterproof camera to the beach today and it stopped working… annoyed.

Go somewhere desolate , take pictures, apparently it’s ‘clean, refreshing and inspirational’

It’s not boring, or predictable, especially if you do it with a Russian 6″ by 4″ format manual shoebox

Anyone out there still actually using fillum then?

Oh, and anyone got any experience using the D700? Pros? Cons? Personal experiences?

Flipping heck there’s a lot of nastiness in this thread (on the forum as a whole actually, but that’s another matter)…

Using fillum? I’ve got an old FM2 myself actually and I’m working my way through a roll of Ilford B&W at the moment.

I’ve also recently got a D90 and it’s brilliant. I’ve taken some of my best photos ever on it, and processing them in Lightroom is fantastic. The ability to take some pics on a ride, get home and be editing them later that evening is great.

Initially, I thought that all I wanted was an FM2 with a digital back, but being able to take 4fps action shots and have motion tracking autofocus is fantastic. If I want to use it in full manual, I can, but I wouldn’t want to go back.

I think that for maximum quality on digital, you have to go full frame, which does unfortunately equal extra bulk, but if you can afford it and get over the extra bulk, I’d just go for the D700 now. There will always be something new and better coming in the next few months.

Actually, as a result of this thread, I took my basic dijical compact out to take some pix; give myself a challenge, look at stuff with a photographic eye./

/And that’s why I want to start up again.

i picked up a lumix G1 for a couple of hundred. and took it out on sunday.
it’s no DLSR but it’s no frustrating compact either. cost me £260
i noticed one in the window of a S/H camera shop on TCR for £225.
i’m impressed with the results could be worth dipping your toe with one of them?

Same here Justin, D90, bloody incredible, outdated now though. Just can’t keep up with the internet reviews, it all moves so quickly.

Still, my camera, far outclasses my knowledge and ability and I’m really enjoyng it 😀

Edit: Just seen the correlation with blokes in there 40’s and ever so capable bikes………. oh well 🙂

So obviously you need a Ferrari, but a Skoda Will get you there , quite efficiently……

Mrs is ok, fulfills the criteria……….but, a bit of time spent with Kylie…………..etc. ad ifinitum

I agree with MrSmith.. like I said above you could get snapping and even when you get a D700 a micro 4/3 camera would be complimentary rather than obselete. I’d love a Pen or similar with a pancake prime for super portability stick it in the bag snapping.

I can’t imagine taking a FF SLR on a bike ride tho.

Edit: Just seen the correlation with blokes in there 40’s and ever so capable bikes………. oh well

I’m not quite in my 40s, and ride a hardtail with 120mm forks. 😐

And in my case there is no correlation with the ‘all the gear no idea’ type thing. If there was a decent, high-quality robust FX sensor DSLR for £300, I’d buy that. Same as I could buy a bike for that sort of money and have loads of fun on it (or £50 all in on a skip rescue hack bike that I ride all over the place on). Same as I could buy a decent Nikon film body now for peanuts, yet still get top-class results with decent lenses (see my comments re cheap Vivitar body and nice Pentax 50mm lens). It don’t work like that with dijical; the only body that fits my criteria is the D700, Which is annoying as it’s bloody spensive. Oh well.

Discovered my compact has dust or something on it’s sensor, which produces two faint blobs on every single shot. Not economically viable to get sorted. 🙁

Whilst the compact was frustrating to use today, the limitations imposed by the equipment din’t dampen my enjoyment of taking pictures at all, just got to work around the problems really. As a skint student, every single press of the shutter release was costing me money I din’t really have, so I quickly became very selective and careful of what I shot. I think that helped me become a better photographer actually. My old photography teacher sez the learning curve of students who use dijical is a lot shallower than in the good old days of fillum. Quantity over quality. Concept over execution.

So obviously you need a Ferrari, but a Skoda Will get you there , quite efficiently……

Wrong type of analogy really; I think of it more as decent paintbrush v cheap one, decent chisel v crap one, nice tools v nasty tools.

Elf, out of interest, are you familiar with DxO?

No, but I am familiar with the works of the Marquis de Sade. Not so much with the work of Leopold Von Sacher-Masoch though.

I can’t imagine taking a FF SLR on a bike ride tho.

Seb Rogers does, apparently…

Yeah, it’s his job.. but it must still be a ball-ache.

Of course I’d rather take a FF on a bike ride than sit in an office all day.

Seb does use a DX (D300) sometimes (according to his blog).

He’s also had magazine covers from a D40X, so kit isn’t everything 😀

Hello, I’m back 🙂

I rediscovered my D300 this summer when the D3 developed an annoying fault that I just didn’t have time to send off and get fixed (now sorted, thanks Nikon). Made me realise how good it is, all over again. In the past three months I’ve shot a 2012 catalogue and website with it, plus several mag covers and features. Size isn’t everything.

There’s nothing magic about full frame. It’s just a sensor size, after all. All else equal, FF gives you cleaner files with lower noise. Plus, IME, Nikon’s big, expensive, heavy and designed-for-digital FX lenses are (mostly) better than the DX alternatives. But that difference isn’t nearly so big if you put older, pre-digital lenses on the front of your D700 ;P

If I was buying a DX camera from scratch, right now, it’d probably be the D7000. Now that’s a nice, capable little camera…

But that difference isn’t nearly so big if you put older, pre-digital lenses on the front of your D700

Interesting…

12mpixel doesn’t push your lenses as much as 22. i am having to review what lenses i use and sell some that aren’t up to the job especially with a higher Mpixel canon on it’s way (if you believe the rumour sites).

or if you are using a crop format then it’s the center of the lens with higher resolving power that you are using so vignetting/chromatic aberration/resolving power isn’t so critical.

i have a 45mm tilt lens that was fine on a 5d but requires too much work in post on a Mk II, the mk1 24mm was unusable.

12mpixel doesn’t push your lenses as much as 22

Clearly. But I can still see limitations at 12mp with some of my lenses. It’s not a problem that’s going to go away, particularly for anyone with a collection of legacy lenses they’re hoping to bolt onto a full frame dSLR ;P

I still don’t get the resistance to at least taking your collection of unused “Fillum” glass and banging it on a cheap DX body for a play. Yes it won’t be absolutely as good as FX, but will be much more convienient than film, and bound to produce better results than a compact (and probably any of the G1’s, PEN’s etc.) it’s so much cheaper, I don’t think FX will ever come down to the consumer level.

Ok so soz bin busy but here’s some snaps what I took on my little bikey on Wednesday.

Personally, I don’t think there’s owt special at all, none of these pics would make it into my portfolio, for sure. TBH I think they look quite amateurish; ‘photography studenty’. The quality is quite poor as the cam’s not very good, and I’ve tweaked them in Photoshop to try to achieve the kind of result I wanted in the first place; with my ‘proper’ gear, I would be more able to achieve the effect on fillum, without much post production work needed. Polarising filters, underexposure + pushing fillum in developing, using different grade B+W printing filters that sort of thing so PS isn’t really any different. I have tried to make silk purses from sows’ ears though I’ll admit.

But as an exercise in making myself look for images, I think it worked, as I had loads of fun. It’s interesting to see how the thought process needs constantly be nurtured and refined. I think my ability to be super-critical and selective about what makes the ‘best’ photo have bin diminished somewhat over time, and I’d be hoping to up my standards somewhat. I won’t evaluate myself against others, but i am extremely critical of myself, as I believe it’s the only way to improve.

So, flame away. Take the piss. Be as brutal as you want; I’m seriously not all that bothered. This was just one afternoon of taking pics, and hopefully I’ve got the rest of me life ahead of me to take many more.

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Clicky pic hopefully will takes to gallery.

Nice work Elf, good to see some of your stuff for a change.

All every abstract and architectural eh?
I don’t really feel qualified to critique, so I’ll leave that to the “experts” 😉

No, I’d appreciate comments from anyone, ‘professional’ or ‘expert’ or not.

Well, I fall into the not category. I like the first 4 colour ones. Arty but in a good way.

Well (speaking as a bumbling amateur who doesn’t take good shots) this kind of image just doesn’t work for me that well.

I can see that they are technically well shot and processed (especially given you were using a compact) and that the composition of the shapes is considered and interesting.

But I just don’t get any emotional response from them. They don’t make me feel anything. I just sort of go “Yep, that’s a pedestrian walkway. He contrasting the blue with the stark black, the curve with the straight lines”.” – I don’t go “Oooh that is beautiful/happy/bleak/foreboding/dominating etc” – so I just don’t find them compelling in any way.

Sorry. It’s not you, it’s me 😀

But I just don’t get any emotional response from them. They don’t make me feel anything.

That’s a very interesting comment, actually. I understand what you’re saying, completely.

I don’t think I was particularly going for images to provoke such emotional response, but just stuff that looked interesting in terms of shapes, patterns, colours and tones.

I do thing there is ‘meaning’ in such images, but that of course is a totally subjective thing.

Sorry. It’s not you, it’s me

That’s what it’s all about though innit? Are we trying to please others, or ourselves? Personally, I’d rather the latter, hence why I chose to not pursue a career in photography (wether I’m good enough or not is another matter entirely 😉 ).

do thing there is ‘meaning’ in such images, but that of course is a totally subjective thing.

I think it probably helps if you’re a bit artistically inclined and can interpret the composition beyond my crude layman’s “Oh a blue bit, red bit and a curvy bit” 😀

Sadly I am a left-brained engineery type and rather devoid of arty neurons (which is one of the reasons I took up photography – to expand my mental horizons a little).

That’s what it’s all about though innit?

Absolutely. Your photos were, by definition, an outstanding success the minute you said “I had loads of fun” 😀

*disclaimer* not a professional photographer … merely an interested amateur *disclaimer*

Interesting set of photo’s. The 2 that stood out for me where the ‘yellow lines / tram tracks’ and the ‘cranes at an angle next to section of building with curved patterns’.

Why? Because they were a slightly different way of looking at things, an image of something that others might not ‘see’. The other pictures are similar to many other photos so don’t have that much interest to me as I have a sense of ‘seen it before’.

For me, with photography, there will always be technically superb photo’s which I will never be able to compete with. However, I do think it is possible to offer a unique ‘eye’ – developing your distintive way of viewing your subject and seeing what others don’t, or seeing it from a different perspective.

You said you weren’t trying to represent ’emotion’, but you are passionate about that there big city. How can you convey that passion in your photos? What do you see that maybe others don’t? And how can you capture that unique perspective in an image?

Stop thinking about so much about your equipment, and focus more on developing, and conveying, your photographic ‘voice’ (as I’m sure you’ve got a lot to say

Stop thinking about so much about your equipment

Sheesh, you think us blokes are all the same, don’t you? 🙄

Oh, sorry, you meant… 😳

I agree it’s easy to get bogged down in the complexities of photographic gear, but I (and I suspect most dedicated/enthusiastic photographers) develop a feel for particular tools, the same way painters favour particular kinds of brushes or oils or whatever. Granted, someone with talent can make the most of the most basic and limiting of tools, but it’s nice to have gear you know is going to be capable of what you want from it. I’m not one of those ‘oh I need X component/cam/bike etc to be able to do this’; I will happily ride a hardtail up some Welsh mountains for example… 😉

And I’ve bin a little bit harsh on my cam; it’s not that bad. In fact, the lens is quite good tbh, for what it is. Pretty sharp and good at resolving fine detail. And with a bit of fiddling, it’s capable of producing decent results. A bad workman/woman/person blames their tools, which is something I want to avoid as much as possible, but then with experience comes the ability to learn of strengths and weaknesses of particular tools, and again, what suits you best.

You said you weren’t trying to represent ’emotion’, but you are passionate about that there big city. How can you convey that passion in your photos? What do you see that maybe others don’t? And how can you capture that unique perspective in an image?

That’s an excellent question/s. And certainly something to have in my head, when I’m out and about snapping. As I’ve said, I’m constantly critical, constantly seeking to improve, take better pics. I think it’s far better really, to always be unsatisfied, always trying to do a bit better, than to become complacent.

I’m now sat wondering what it was I was actually trying to ‘say’ with those pics; the rustiness of my brain and photographic skilz dem has left me a little clouded on that really, but I spose I was trying to get myself to look for shapes, forms, patterns, that sort of thing, rather than any intrinsic deeper ‘meaning’. But then it’s so subjective that every single viewer will have their own interpretation, so maybe one pic means something to someone else, that it never did to me. I’ve bin surprised in the past by someone announcing that they loved a particular image of mine, that I haddunt considered was all that, myself.

For me, with photography, there will always be technically superb photo’s which I will never be able to compete with

Like with people, for me it’s actually the ‘imperfections’ in images, that often set pics (and people) apart as unique. I often feel that with technically ‘perfect’ images, that there’s something missing, that they’re somehow soulless, sterile, devoid of that je ne sais quoi that sets something or someone apart from the rest. Make sense?

I’ve always loved this pic by Robert Capa:

It’s blurred, out of focus, overexposed and technically very flawed, yet somehow that’s what makes it work. It’s a bastard good picture. Conveys the action, the chaos and insanity of war perfectly, imo.

I was hoping MrSmith would be along; I need to be made to feel pathetic, useless and worthless…. 😥

actually if you change the order of the mosaic you could have an interesting theme running through it…

Oliver; please go on? Very interested to hear your thoughts actually.

And please, any (constructively critical) comments are welcome. 🙂

I was hoping MrSmith would be along; I need to be made to feel pathetic, useless and worthless….

i charge by the hour and we have to agree a safeword. but i’m booked up.

as i said up there somewhere i would not be commenting. i find intellectualising imagery tedious and akin to navel gazing when it has to be verbalized, i’m aware of the visual language but i would just be talking about something i have no interest in.

have a look at this chaps images from the ‘photo’s you are proud of’ thread.
they went strangely un-commented on by the other photographers but his visual awareness is streets ahead of anyone else who has posted on that thread.
a mix of film/digital different formats and obviously has both colour and B&W mediums under his control.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/polarisandy/%5B/url%5D

i could talk about why i like (some of) his images, them being high quality makes that easy.

i find intellectualising imagery tedious and akin to navel gazing when it has to be verbalized, i’m aware of the visual language but i would just be talking about something i have no interest in.

Do what?

Was that comment deliberately designed to be as pretentious as possible?

Do I take it then, that my work is beneath your consideration?

Oh whell. 😥

elfin they are what they are. whatever i think about them would be viewed as some kind of response to your comment about mine:
“a few fairly insipid, heavily ‘shopped pics”
as i said before im not fishing for plaudits or criticism what matters to me is a happy client/art director.

you are after a response and plenty of people have given you that already. my only ‘advice’ would be to look at the link i posted above and maybe be inspired

It’s wrong to expect a professional photographer to crit random imagery produced for pleasure, other than technical advice, it’s all meaningless. So i wouldn’t get wound up by his remark, it seemed a perfectly reasonable response.

Personally, for what it’s worth i enjoyed the double yellow and tram lines shot, so take some pleasure that momentarily you gave me visual pleasure.

Now excuse me for a bit of pretension.

That stuff is Art school stuff, the sort of thing that was cool at the time you’re trying to build a portfolio, the other shot i did think had some merit was the pillar vanishing point to person on steps, ‘shows a grasp of perspective’ would be the comment on the school report..

So that you have a talent and enjoy what you’re up to goes without saying and at the end of the day the most important person to impress is yourself, every persons perception is different, some get it some don’t, as long as you do then that’s all there is.

Lucky you don’t have to prostitute your talent like Mr Smith, only to have some moron client tell him it’s not what he wants and even worse he aint going to pay for it.

As to my credentials, My father was a photographer before me and I did twenty years in another life, part of it lecturing at colleges, all pre digital, when I learned we judged distances without rangefinders, judged exposure by experience and did an apprenticeship on single shot glass plate cameras.

So grudging praise from me is praise indeed, even if you are an argumentative b’stard at times with the merest hint of a complex of something or other, keep it up and enjoy it for what it is..

I’ve always loved this pic by Robert Capa:

It’s blurred, out of focus, overexposed and technically very flawed, yet somehow that’s what makes it work. It’s a bastard good picture. Conveys the action, the chaos and insanity of war perfectly, imo.

Coincidentally, I saw this pic at the weekend at the exhibition of Hungarian photographers at the RA. Capa shot several rolls of the invasion and they were sent back to London where nearly all of them were ruined by being dried too fast in haste to print something in the paper.

Okay, try lining the thumbnails up something like 11,4,12,3,5,7,1,2,8,10,6,9 and the lines follow all the way through

It’s wrong to expect a professional photographer to crit random imagery produced for pleasure

Hmm. I’ve discussed photography with such figures as Don McCullin and various others whose names I’ve forgotten or aren’t ‘famous’, and none of them have been dismisive or condesending or at all arrogant in the way MrSmith has at times. Indeed his attitude seems to be ‘I’m too important to lower myself to give you advice or criticism’. TBH, it don’t bother me, cos in my opinion, I haven’t seen anything of his work that tells me he’s in any way qualified to pass judgement on me or indeed anyone else. Certainly not in any artistic context.

But there you go.

That stuff is Art school stuff, the sort of thing that was cool at the time you’re trying to build a portfolio

I concur completely. Nothing wrong with that, per se, but I’ve already said there’s nowt I’m especially chuffed with; I set myself a simple assignment just as an exercise in going and looking for images. And I had fun doing so. I’ve got much better pics than anything there, and I know I can produce far better images. I’m not going to beat myself up that I’ve ‘failed’ in any way though, cos I jolly well have not, really. I enjoyed the whole process,and it’s shown me how much I’ve lost touch with my real abilities, and how much need to get back into it, brush my skilz up, get back into the flow of ‘seeing’. Much like a musician who hazzunt picked up their instrument in a long while I spose.

whatever i think about them would be viewed as some kind of response to your comment about mine

Nope. I was merely expressing my completely honest opinion, nothing more. As a professional, I expect you can easily handle it. And having had literally thousands of people commenting on my own work, in college, Uni, exhibitions etc, I’m used to criticism. I’ve learned to be quite thick skinned. 🙂

This isn’t about points scoring; it’s about honest onions. That’s all. You strike me as somewhat defensive though.

I wasn’t actually asking ‘ooh please Mr Professional please say nice encouraging things about my pathetic little pictures’, just asking what you honestly thought about them; did you like/dislike them, reasons, what they ‘say’ to you, etc.

But if you don’t wanna take part in a healthy discussion about expression and communication, then up to you.

Right.. I really like the red building and the double yellows. The former is just a nice sharp zing of colour, but the yellows is better cos it’s a bit more evocative. Double yellows are a feature of our life, and the railway lines conjure up something slightly different and they cleanly cross in the middle of the image which suggests convergence, but also like a ‘strike through’ like one is crossing out the other.

I hope you don’t think that’s intellectualising, just putting down what the images caused my brain to cough up 🙂

PS Mr Smith I understand your point of view about commenting, but you could say which (if any) you like..? 🙂

Now then Elfin, stop buggering about with holiday snaps 😉 and post that pic I like, you know which one…..my favourite. 🙂

No Peter this is just about this one set of pics, that’s all.

Interesting that the yellow lines pic seems to have emerged as a ‘favourite’. I like Mol’s comments especially. Fascinating to read how other people interpret visual information.

Yeah that’s kind of how I consume artistic photographs, mostly. I doubt if I really am genuinely artistic like some folk are.. Stuff like this is all about exploring connections of memories, images and emotions like being on a bus whose route winds its way through my neurons and synapses.

Yeah alright now you’re just being a ponce. 😐

😆

But you’re right though. It’s fascinating to think about what ‘turns us on’, so to speak. What sort of things trigger off subconscious responses from the deepest recesses of our minds.

Interesting to read GrahamS’s view of himself as a ‘left brained engineery type’, as though somehow that might prevent him from having the depth of emotional involvement with more abstract concepts. I’m not convinced of that one meself. I mean, we all have emotions, all of us. They just manifest themselves in different ways.

Also, I’m not a fayn of the way people say ‘ooh but I’m not an expert so my opinion doesn’t count for anything’. Cobblers. Everyone’s onion counts for something, when it comes to art and visual communication and stuff. I certainly don’t subscribe to this ‘only experts and professionals have the right to speak with any authority’ on a subject. Professional’s such as MrSmith and SebRogers’ onions are o more valid than anyone else’s, when it comes to matters artistic. In fact, some of the most insightful comments/criticisms of my own photography have come from people who don’t even really take photographs. In the same way that kids often see things ‘clearer’ than adults, because their minds aren’t as clouded by ‘rules’ and conventions and preconceptions and all that sort of thing.

I once slagged off one of Damian Hirst’s ‘works’, when he was standing right behind me. 😆

I never did get invited to the Turner Prize Private View again. 😳

Must admit I was a bit nervous about posting my pics up on here, ‘baring my soul’ as it were. Speshly as I’m occasionally slightly ‘outspoken’, shall we say, on various matters, speshly things visual. I expect a certain degree of reaction. But actually, having done so, I now feel more confident in my abilities, and have a clearer idea of how to progress in a positive manner.

I know what you mean about the technically imperfect stuff Elf, gives it some character. I took this photo when I was pissing around with a Canon film camera and it’s completely out of focus but kind of works and I think it would be rubbish if it was in focus. It’s not that exciting even out of focus but it adds a bit of extra interest I think 😆

tom; that is exactly what I’m on about. The technical imperfections give it an ethereal, almost sinister quality actually. Which makes it much more powerful as an image. For me, it evokes thoughts of fear and paranoia, feeling disorientated, scared and lonely.

It’s like, being in a care home or institution or something, and you’re all alone, and no-one is around to help you, and you’re wandering about feeling helpless and confused…

Someone else might just look at and think ‘Eh? have you been on the meths again Elfin?’. 😆

But there you go. That’s just my onion, which I think is perfectly valid and as important as anyone else’s.