CO2 emissions, mate.In any case I usually drive a hybrid. Low CO2 and low everything else too.
In which case you should be able to direct me to some convincing research in favour of diesel...
I've found none
Chat Forum
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Diesel turbo lag?
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Posted 1 year ago #
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Tron - you need to drive a fast diesel (6 pot or 8 pot) at high speed
That's not really my point. In my view, diesels are best suited to big cars going motorway miles - the extra weight has less effect, and there's more room for sound deadening. And the increased range is a massive advantage. When I borrowed an XJ8 for a while, I felt like I was putting fuel in every 15 minutes...
My point was more that any oldish big capacity petrol car is going to be faster, quieter than a newish car with the same running costs. But of course, it does all depend on miles and type of driving - do loads of city miles and a new small car will come out top, do an average 10k a year and you're probably even, do a lot of high speed motorway miles and you'll go deaf and have backache in the small car
Posted 1 year ago # -
Let's face it - we are all a bit selfish really. Diesels have low VED and go further on a tank of fuel. They used to be shockingly cack in road cars but now compete and often beat petrol equivalents.
If you can't see the upsides and downsides of good petrols and good diesels then you shouldn't really comment on cars at all.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Tron - drive more than 50 miles in our Suzuki and you're deaf and crippled! But that's not what it's for.
As for weight - 335d unit weighs less than 30kg more than the 335i unit. It's a similar story with the diesel/petrol units in the Jag XF. So less than half a tank of fuel more in weight.
Most properly powerful diesels are in massive wallowy barges or SUVs - I think where the BM scores is that it's very pokey (in a V8 style) but also handles and is fun to drive. No one else has quite got this balance yet - 3.0TDI Audis, 350CDI Mercs and the Jag XF 3.0 diesel (which is mostly brilliant) are basically motorway cruisers that aren't a lot of fun on a twisty road.
Again though - a good petrol is a joy, so is a good modern diesel.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Mol - diesels chuck out other nasties that petrols don't. We have both so can't really "diss" either!
I know, that's what I am talking about.
In which case you should be able to direct me to some convincing research in favour of diesel...
My point is that diesel cars in general emit significantly less CO2 than their petrol equivalents, which is better on a global scale. However they emit a lot more smog-causing chemicals. If I lived in California or Athens I'd not drive one, but I don't. I think smog is more of a local issue than a global one.
Plus apparently diesel can cost a lot more energy to manufacture.
I see petrol hybrids as by far the cleanest cars to drive, however you can't tow in one, hence me buying a diesel for a second car. I do wish I'd bought a different diesel though as mine's not even that good compared to other diesels.
Mat - the old Honda Insight was the weird 2 seater thing, they stopped making it years ago, but there's a new one that is totally different. It's fairly small, being only a bit bigger than Fiesta etc I reckon, and it looks even weirder than a Prius, but it's strangely likeable. My in-laws have one, and it's really fun to drive. Spartan and fairly slow but a good fun drive. It's not as economical as a Prius and slower, but cheaper.
do a lot of high speed motorway miles and you'll go deaf and have backache in the small car
That's way not true any more. I put 40k miles on my Ibiza and it was lovely.
Posted 1 year ago # -
My point is that diesel cars in general emit significantly less CO2 than their petrol equivalents, which is better on a global scale.
Why is that?
Frustratingly, vehicle emissions are measured at the "tailpipe" as it were - ok for comparing one model to another, which is what consumers need, but not very helpful when comparing one fuel type / engine technology to another.Plus apparently diesel can cost a lot more energy to manufacture.
And that energy = CO2 emissions at the refinery.
I'd like to know the comparative CO2 emissions of the litre of petrol / diesel that we buy at the pump - that should be included as an adjustment factor to the "tailpipe" emissions.I don't know the answer, or even if there is one, one way or the other. It's a question that I have been asking for 10+ years - during which time engine technology and efficiencies have improved, but refinery capital investment and upgrades operate over a far longer timescale...
ETA - in my experience the oil companies are very conservative in their approach to publishing information - trying to work out the CO2 emissions of a litre of petrol or diesel could be quite a headache and would be expected to vary from planmt to plant depending on age, configuration, location etc...
Posted 1 year ago # -
Oh yes - did non stop (apart from fuel stops) Alps to Calais in a Saxo VTR and arrived fine
The 335d in the States has to have Urea added to the fuel for some emissions reasons. YUCK!
Posted 1 year ago # -
To me, running costs and depreciation are different things. They come out of different pockets.
but the same trousers...
Posted 1 year ago # -
I'd like to know the comparative CO2 emissions of the litre of petrol / diesel that we buy at the pump - that should be included as an adjustment factor to the "tailpipe" emissions.
Me too. This was raised on here a while ago - I think TINAS brought it up. I think it depends, since plenty of diesel just comes out of the ground of course, but that's not enough so the extra is made up from cracking heavier oils hence the extra energy.
Oh yes - did non stop (apart from fuel stops) Alps to Calais in a Saxo VTR and arrived fine
Ugh.. I meant most small cars are decent EXCEPT FOR A CITROEN SAXO! One of the most God awful cars I ever drove. I only did a few miles in it and I was very uncomfortable! Pedals far too close together and about 6" left of where they should've been.
but the same trousers...
Yes. I buy the car I want, then I pay for it, put fuel in it then I fix it. It's my car. I'm not investing money in it (since that would be a terrible rate of return!) but I am going to sell it at some point way in the future. At which point any money I get from it is just a deposit on the next one.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I'm so glad Matt has returned from his tan top up, the thread has gone from informative to the usual willy waving & bollocks
AFAIC Diesel is only good for load lugging, they are dull to drive (I think I have driven more exotica than Matt) & although the BMW 335 is one of the best TD units if you want speed, its still not a diesel engine I would choose (its a BMW for a start).
I can however empathise with his Jimmy ownership, although I'm happy to contradicted myself & say its a shocking 'car' (try driving one on a motorway), small engine cars, diesels or petrol, that you need to 'rag' to go anywhere definitely have there own grin factor.Happy trails folks.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I'm so glad Matt has returned from his tan top up, the thread has gone from informative to the usual willy waving & bollocks
He tops up the sun - not the other way around.Posted 1 year ago # -
^^^^
Wahoo! Turbo lag or not, I got >64mpg on the way home for some reason & 62 on the way in this morning!!
I wonder if someone has pumped my tyres up to 50psi without my knowledge!?Posted 1 year ago # -
Sorry 2Unfit - most are happy to discuss points, a select few internerd stalker geeks take offence even if I say hello. You are one of them.
Driven more exotica? So what if you have? It's as relevant to this thread as Cheddar cheese. I've been talking about ALL diesels from tiny engined to powerful. You see that's what this thread is about, not some bitter sniping.
And your last para makes no sense at all.
Happy stalking though. Seems to be a popular game amoung the "life's so unfair" brigade.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Seems to be a popular game amoung the "life's so unfair" brigade.
Good point Mat. You could end all this aggro now by selling up, and sharing your hard earned with the rest of STW
Of course, you'd have to suppress the natural urge to get to work and make it all again, if you want to remain stalker free.
Posted 1 year ago # -
AFAIC Diesel is only good for load lugging, they are dull to drive
Dull is subjective I'm afraid.
I think they make ace cruisers, due to low down torque.
I wouldn't take one on a track day.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Is any of this relevent to the fact the OP has been given a tax busting car and isnt impressed.
Its a big heavy car fitted with a 1.5 diesel stretched to 105bhp, low CO2 and high economy. I am looking at the same engine but at 86bhp in the missus' next car (maybe a nissan note) and am sure it will be fine.
As it is new it will need to be loosened up a bit and also it will be euro5 emissions so there will be reduced engine response and economy compared to Euro4 models of the same engine.
Anyone with older diesels and poor response get the EGR valve checked.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Small engine + higher power = big turbo = more lag, really.
Also 105bhp is pretty low for a car the size of the laguna.
Interestingly, reviews of the VW Bluemotion cars have said that there's less low-down torque. I am not sure why this would be - perhaps they've reduced over-injection of fuel that would get the turbo spooled quicker.. I dunno.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Sounds like a good case for a small supercharger at low revs, followed by turbocharging as the exhaust gases come on stream - as in the VW 1.4TSi petrol engine.
Possibly too complex / expensive a solution.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Or just twin turbo, like Saab. Small one spools fast, large one delivers more air. Widely used solution on racing cars and I think HGVs too.
I think that only some of the VW TSi engines have the twin charger option - some are just turbo. I think it's the 160bhp one.
It's a great idea, I always said it should be done. However in practice I think you have to drive like a total granny to get anything like the claimed MPG out of them. I spoke to someone with a 1.2 TSi Polo and he was getting low 30s out of it, and trying.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Looked at (and test drove) the Golf TSi when it came out in the GT trim. Very nice car / engine, but the pricing wasn't that much less than the GTi!!
Went for a year old DSG GTi instead - not diesel, so OT, but no noticeable turbo lag
Posted 1 year ago # -
Or just twin turbo, like Saab.
Or BMW. Or Mercedes. Or VW. Or Audi. Or many others
rkk - great engine in that GTi. Not the most powerful in it's "class" but IMO one of the best. The edition 30 version is an absolute belter of a car.
Very impressed that VW got 170bhp out of a 1.4 engine in the GT. I expected them to be unreliable but they seem okay.
Posted 1 year ago # -
The edition 30 version is an absolute belter of a car.
Yes - regretted not getting one. They'd just announced the ed30 when we bought our Mk5. Was sorely tempted, but we would have had to wait 6 months (IIRC) for delivery, and I needed to replace a C Class estate before it's lease was up...(or more accurately before it went over the agreed mileage
)
Posted 1 year ago # -
I often see one around here - always impressed. Just cranks the good points of the GTi up a notch or two. Standard one still great and one sad little point I always notice - easy to clean wheels!
Posted 1 year ago # -
Can you lot stop talking about cars, you make want to go and buy one...
Posted 1 year ago # -
We've had a bumper crop of blackberries and apples in the garden this year.
Does that help?
Posted 1 year ago # -
My pear tree is overloaded this year too.
Anyhow it's got 148 bhp apparently, either way I'm not getting a diesel, don't do enough miles for it. Octavia VRS is the choice, just have to find one now.
I've leave this thread to die a slow death.
P.S. AWESOME
Posted 1 year ago # -
My pear tree had a fantastic crop, but some local little kids decided they would go out pear picking and picked them all, about a month ago. They were only little and didn't realise they were our pears. Their dad gave them a right rollocking tho which was good. There's only one left, and it's now absolutely huge - biggest pear I've ever seen!
I was gonna change a car sometime next year, but now I'm gonna hold on and get a nice caravan instead
Posted 1 year ago # -
Surf-Mat - Member
Sorry 2Unfit - most are happy to discuss points, a select few internerd stalker geeks take offence even if I say hello. You are one of them.
Get over yourself already, if you bothered to read the bloody thread then you would see I had posted on it long before you shoved your nose in with your oh so commonly aired views, you really aren't the most important man on the forum you know.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Ahh the mark of a true cyber stalker geek - can't let things go, can't move on. Too bitter you see. But hey you've been posting on here for ages so must know what you're talking about eh?
Jog on laddio. Plenty more people to leech off.
Posted 1 year ago # -
**** off you knob, Do you think I'm logged on 24-7? Or is it you that needs to have the last word?
Do you really think you can call me a stalker & expect me not to reply?
FYI I have 'been on here' since the Go-Far days, & thankfully have encountered few people like yourself.
Happy trails.
Posted 1 year ago # -
If you can't see the upsides and downsides of good petrols and good diesels then you shouldn't really comment on cars at all.
This isn't the first time you've been telling people they shouldn't discuss cars. Instead of these statements coming out here and there, do you think you can produce a definitive list of who shouldn't, Surf-Mat? You know, just in case we're not AWESOME enough?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Kona - I don't have time. Too busy being AWESOME.
Posted 1 year ago # -
It's quite a long list, then?
Posted 1 year ago # -
It wouldn't be actually.
Just people that comment of car stuff based on no personal experience and a big dose of BS. Actually there are a fair few...Posted 1 year ago #
Topic Closed
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