I don’t enjoy riding my 853 PA anymore- so it will be getting sold. I do prefer the spring of steel, so that is key. Hopefully this will complement my 27.5 Banidit, so i’m looking at something fun without breaking the bank. Budget is £1k for a complete bike- happy to build it up secondhand, just need some more options as haven’t spotted much yet.

5’10

Considered;

Cotic Solaris (top of the list right now)
Inbred 29er (heavy, long)
Transition Trans Am (not many s/h)
Genesis High Latitude (frame only)

Stooge?

Although I’ll add my thumbs up to the Solaris as that’s what I ride too!

I don’t enjoy riding my 853 PA anymore

Mind if I ask why?

@rockthree, let me know when you sell the PAC/853 (I have one still waiting to be built 😳 ) as I have a friend who needs a bike (what size ?) and I think it’s a good choice for him

FYI I have a BFe and Covert and would have suggested a Soul 27.5/Solaris/Trans Am with preference for sticking with 27.5 wheels so you can swap bits/tyres etc. Used Solaris is going to be a lot easier to find than a Soul 27.5 or the Trany as you say

EDIT: just re-read title and you say 29 but I would ask why when the Bandit is 27.5 ..

I do prefer the spring of steel

Suspect it’s in your head. Just find a frame that enough people claim is springy and you’ll think it is. IMO few steel frames actually are springy. Even fewer with CEN certification now.

PA predates CEN and definetly more forgiving than the Alpine and varius aluminium (Giant, Azonic, Kinesis and Trek) hardtails i’be tried. I miss my DMR (whatever it was called, the one with the folding downtube!)

I want to do more XC but still have a fun bike- the PA has just lost its spark and I fancy going 29- Bandit is great but 27.5 revelation soon wore off!

I

don’t enjoy riding my 853 PA

I felt the same. I didn’t have funds available for a Stooge, so I got a Bizango in the Halfords 10% off weekend a month back. I’m back to enjoying MTB again.

genesis longitude

Singular Gryphon?

Well my BFe is a million times better than my rock hard Hardrock, I know some of that is due to components like better wheels, seatpost and especially frame design/build but I am a fully signed up Steel HT convert.

…Inbred 29er (heavy, long)

they’re really not ‘that’ heavy, 2500g ish, you’re not going to find many steel 29ers weighing in much less.

and long top-tubes are where it’s at now – you will struggle to find a frame designed for a long stem.

(*it means you can use a short stem, and have nice long front centre, without the floppy steering you get with a slack head angle)

my BFe is a million times better than my rock hard Hardrock, I know some of that is due to components like better wheels, seatpost and especially frame design/build

LOL – that’s great. One bike is better than another that’s completely different and it’s because of the material… Are you sure that it’s not because blue (BFe’s are blue IIRC) is a better colour for frames?

FWIW, I had fat tubed alu frames that felt more springy than supposedly springy steel frames but that’s probably down to different geometry and in particular the length of the seat post showing.

Oh and I’m not a steel hater or anything. As it goes, all my mtbs are steel at the moment. None of them are particularly springy.

Not steel, but I went from a PA to a Trek Stache. Still really like it.

2014 Stache 7 is £1100 at Evans (I bought a 2013 7). Forks are a bit “budget” but otherwise decent stuff.

No idea what they are like, but Stanton Sherpa might be worth a look.

It’s not just any blue, its a really gorgeous blue 8)

(I do like the green and the gritstone too btw)

Assuming it is the earlier incarnation of 853 PA (ie not the classic) what size & weight is it? I might be interested if Jambalaya doesn’t want it.

I already have a reynolds 520 mk 1 & it is neither light nor compliant but I still like it a lot 🙂

I’m in a similar boat, looking for a long travel 29er hardtail. Preferably British, probably steel, but not too fussy. Currently looking at the Pipedream Sirius, Ragley Bigwig or Zealous Division. Just need to decide how much I can spend.

the PA has just lost its spark

No it hasn’t, it’s exactly the same as when you first got it. The forks may have almost some plushness, the shifting is not as precise, the brakes may have lost their bite but the frame will be the same unless it has rusted away.

Exactly though to be fair I don’t think he’s suggesting something physical has actually changed. The ride characteristics seem to be largely irrelevant – this is about wanting something new which is fine but hence my comment

Suspect it’s in your head. Just find a frame that enough people claim is springy and you’ll think it is

I just bought a 2souls quarter horse. It’s made entirely of 853 dzb tubes, but it would be naive of me to think its going to be think it’s springy.

Size medium- thats the original photo back in 2011, its built up and will be FS in a fortnight.

I fancy a change- sell me your Solaris etc 😀

I just bought a 2souls quarter horse. It’s made entirely of 853 dzb tubes, but it would be naive of me to think its going to be think it’s springy.

Congrats! You’ve waited a long time for that! 🙂

😀

Obvious answer = Singular Buzzard. Not springy, not light but steel, UK-designed, loads of fun and ORANGE!!!

Or a Stooge, which also ticks most of the above boxes but is PURPLE (if you’re quick)!!!

Buzzard is too heavy/overbuilt for me. Good price and colour mind!

The “spring” of steel is often overstated/overrated. I’ve ridden some “springy” steel frames, but I’ve also ridden a lot more steel frames that were particularly devoid of feel and/or excessively stiff (Dialled PA was one of them incidentally!). I have also ridden some exceptionally good Aluminium frames too…

Something else to note is that the larger the wheel size, the more the natural characteristics of a particular frame material are muted too. Going from 26″ wheeled bikes to 29ers, I quickly realised that geometry is far more important than the frame material as far as the handling and “feel” of the bike goes.

One of the most lively and “springy” 29ers I have ridden is the Kinesis FF29. An Aluminium frame! Don’t believe me? Try one out, you may be pleasantly surprised…

All that said and done though, a nice steel frame is a thing of beauty and something to behold. If it MUST be steel (for whatever largely invalid reason) then the Stanton Sherpa should be number 1 on your list IMO. It has a tighter back end than the Solaris, yet better tyre clearance too. It also has the best paint finish of any production frame I think I’ve ever seen!

I feel compelled to battle this injustice and come to the defence of the dialled PA! Loved mine, was my go to bike for local rides for about 4 years around Bristol. Can’t bring myself to part with it and frame is tucked up in the rafters.

At low speed yes it feels lumpy but go a bit quicker and I found it very forgiving. Sometimes I’d make a line choice from hell and I’d wince… and it would be alright. Small drops where you get that springy feeling in your feet on landing were ace!

Contrast now to my kinesis xc130 which is more ok with a sitting down pootle, but get it wrong at pace and it thumps back up through my spine, ‘you got that wrong sonny’

Don’t get me wrong, love both, both very different in their own way. Is that material, is that design/geometry? Duno, need someone more savvy than me.

Am back to back better stravaaaaaa warrioring on the kinesis and absolutely love it for longer rides too.

Moral of the story. PAs are great, other stuff is great…. errr.

What’s your point caller?

Solaris is still top of the list IF I can find one.

I will consider aluminum- but I don’t want a harsh bike. The Stanton and FF29 is lovely but too much £££ for now.

Thanks so far!

Recent mag review said Solaris was quite stiff for a steel frame…

Clink – Member

Recent mag review said Solaris was quite stiff for a steel frame…

And I just read one saying the “beefier” Singular Buzzard felt more lively despite the weight penalty..

AGHHH!!

😆

Ultimately I think more comes down to geo. The best 3 29er hardtails I have ridden (there have been a few!) are the 2 Souls Slim jim, Voodoo Bizango (built up ss from frame only) and the Stooge. I didn’t like the FF29 anywhere near as much.

Out of interest, as a Solaris owner, the bikeradar review (Solaris test 2014) you mention is quite a turn around from their previous review(Solaris test 2012) Although it does say it isn’t harsh compared to an ALU frame and as my previous 29er was ALU I can vouch for that.

The only difference I can see in the versions they’d test can be found on cotic’s site. It says:

“February 2012: First production frames arrive.

November 2012: Solaris placed in What Mountain Bikes Top 10 Bikes Of The Year.

February 2013: Latest iteration production frames arrive now using a full Reynolds 853 front triangle. The switch resulted from Reynolds DZB (Dual Zone Butt) tubing becoming available in lengths suitable for 29er use. This down tube allows us to eliminate the gussets whilst still getting meeting the regulations and getting the durability we require. Back to the super clean Cotic lines!”

Would that make the difference?

rockthreegozy – Member

I will consider aluminum- but I don’t want a harsh bike.

stand up more, let 3psi out of your tyres.

I’m surprised that no one has mentioned the Kona Honzo esp if you have the Trans Am on the list? I’ve not idea about frame only options though.

IMO few steel frames actually are springy. Even fewer with CEN certification now.

IMO some 29ers have gone some way to getting it back as the tubes are all that much longer. Back to back my Swift was much much springier than my El-Mariachi. 26″ CEN bikes are quite stiff though. I do prefer steel frames for their toughness too though, Aluminium’s just a bit soft IME and get’s ruined by kicked up rocks, bike racks, cable rub etc.

I really want to try a Pipedream Skookum.

Ex-PA owner and now riding a Ragley Big Wig. Mine was built for well under a grand with 140mm Fox 34 Floats and a pretty decent spec, and it rides good too.

The Singular Buzzard is now £200: http://shop.singularcycles.com/collections/frontpage/products/singular-buzzard I built up a lovely Scandal for under a grand when they were down to £149 for the frame. I’d get the Buzzard frame, then pick up a good pair of forks and a really good set of wheels. Much of the rest of the parts will cross over. Maybe have a chat with Sam at Singular, see if he’ll do a wheel and fork bundle to go with…

In my opinion you won’t find a better trail hardtail than the 2Souls quarterhorse.
It can do anything you want. I’ve done all day epics, Lake District big days out inc grizedal tarn descent and Helvellyn.
Tight woodsy singletrack. It is probably the bike I will never part with.
Try one. It’s not cheap but it out performs so many other frames. I sold a Nicolai Helius CC to get it. Through technical trails it works so much better than most 26″ bikes I’ve ridden

Don’t know about Springy but my Buzzard certainly seems lively to ride, great bit of kit, no brainer at that price really….