'Designed for the UK'? « Singletrack Forum

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'Designed for the UK'?

120 posts & 66 voices | Started 2 years ago by Scienceofficer | Latest reply from crikey

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ahwiles - Member

if there are people /countries /magasines out there who don't understand the point of bikes like the DB Prince Albert, Cotic Soul, Ragley blue pig, on-one 456, Genesis Altitude, etc. then it's their loss.

the kind of cheeky 'badger-tech' trails that these bikes are at home on are just another riding niche. i'm not sure i really understand what 'slopestyle' means, but i bet it makes sense to a lot of people.

it really is all just cycling, and it's all ace. I don't have any chairlifts or slopestyle parks where i live, i don't race xc, but i do have lots and lots of lovely technical singletrack and a skinny steel frame with 5" forks is just about perfect. Stiffer frames and shorter forks mean a harsher ride, sore wrists and ankles = less fun. Full-bounce bikes are more comfortable and offer more grip, but i'm not sure that means more fun.

'uk specific' - ok, if that's what we're calling this particular niche...

Posted 2 years ago #
shoefiti - Member

Part Marketing, part not marketing innit. As stated before the Longer Travel HT's with slacker geometry and crud mounts, mud clearance in quite specific to UK and Canada in terms of market share of bikes sold.

Also folk like to feel special don't they, there is quite a different cycling (in particular MTB riding)culture in the UK (you only have to look at the mags available in other countries to support this view) So marketing is always going to be more effective if you go with the existing trends and reinforce an existing ideology. Why would folk selling frames, bikes etc make the suggestion that a bike 'designed for Germany' would be better than one for where the majority of the intended market is actually going to use the bike - they arn't are they. Also we have existing stereotypes of other places and the riding that they do, it would be daft for marketers to try and second guess that to exploit it.

Are you going to be swayed towards buying a car that was marketed as 'designed for the US', probably not as if like me you have never driven there (or ridden there for that matter)so i'm putting my faith in those selling me the car or bike that they've made that it's the most suitable option for my intended use.

If you are not swayed by this sort of marketing, well kudos to you Jedi of all that is bikes and bike marketing, now tuck back into your tube of pringles and get back to your IT job, or go buff your mary bars.

Posted 2 years ago #
kelvin - Member

Short memories? Or am I just old? I remember fitting 1.8" rear tyres in the winter in the hope that the wheel will still go round. That was Herefordshire though...

Posted 2 years ago #
kelvin - Member

I just remembered that was on UK designed and built bikes, so doesn't really help clarify this "UK designed" thing at all, does it? = ;87)

Posted 2 years ago #
molgrips - Member

Next time you are at Mountain Mayhem and it's muddy, sit trackside and watch the people passing by. The bikes where wheels no longer even turn that are being dragged through the mud by wretched souls are Santa Cruzes mostly, and some Specialised. The ones that are actually being ridden tend to be Orange 5s

Posted 2 years ago #
audiophile - Member

Uk riders like do it all bikes as compared to most other places we have a lot of different terrain crammed into a very small area. I went riding with some Americans years ago and they were amazed at the different stuff they could ride in the course of a day. I would predict that the largest amount of "do it all" tyres are sold in the UK market due to terrain and weather conditions. The mud clearance thing is part of the issue, look at the difference in bikes designed on the east and west coasts of the US. Plus, we are Brits and probably just like to be different and quirky. More power to the LT HT.

Posted 2 years ago #
juan - Member

I am so laughing out loud at some of the comment about riding in the UK and riding in the EU.
If I was to trust this forum, it would mean riding in the UK (and that would mean that doing the devil staircase in scotland being the same ride as pootling around QEII park) is so much gnar than riding in the EU because people in the EU only ride XC.

Now that's amazing. I think some of the people on here should spend more time on geographic dedicated forums. You can't compare UK riding with EU or US riding the same way you can't compare riding in sussex and riding in cumbria.

My do it all bike in the UK was a HJ single speed. Beore that I had a hoss too (people where all very surprised I rode at MM with it). But the former was more suited to my riding.

Now I am back at home and the SS is useless, so I put gear on. Then I only uses it when I ride with the GF or I do some not rocky rides (or rides that involves 45 minutes of bike carriage).

I am now going to make a STW like sweeping generalisation if you'll allow me, my EU XC bike:

Most of people will buy a bike that is suited for their local riding. And as said before, LT HT were a canadian stuff way before it came in the UK. As for commencal having two version of the frame one for the UK on for the rest of the world, yeah right...

Peter, google for sobre it's some nichastic french stuff.

Posted 2 years ago #
vinnyeh - Member

Marketing and fashion, isn't it. Lets see, why do you need a 140mm travel hardtail for UK conditions? Slack angles, are nice in some areas, but lets face it, when on-one produced a frame designed around slack angles and a 100mm fork, what happened? People went out and slapped a 120-140mm fork on it. Fashion.
Most stuff in trail centres, and outside of them, is perfectly rideable, and enjoyable, on a 100mm hardtail, but an LT hardtail looks hard- it's the poseurs equivalent of having an RS4 instead of an A4. They both do the same job, but one takes less skill to use than the other.

Posted 2 years ago #
hilldodger - Member

why do you need a 140mm travel hardtail for UK conditions?

because it's fun ?

Posted 2 years ago #
Dirtynap - Member

^^^ yes it can be fun, but so is a full sus and your ass and back hurt less at the end of day.

Why punish your body more than you have to?

Posted 2 years ago #
hilldodger - Member

Why punish your body more than you have to?

I'm not exactly a youngster but have never found all day on a HT to give me anything more than than a sore face from grinning, aching legs and the odd bit of sunburn.

Never had this 'beaten up ass/back' thing, I've always thought if your back aches you're sitting down too much or your bike doesn't fit properly...

Posted 2 years ago #
Bagstard - Member

vinnyeh - it really depends on what UK riding you do. In my eyes my DB Alpine is the most versatile bike for my needs. With forks wound down it climbs well and is good fun on the 4x track. Wind them out and they are good for messing around at Woburn sands etc. A change of wheels and a little more travel it is ready for DH.

It may not always be perfect and there will be some compromise, but for my needs it covers all the riding I want to do. What other type of bike could do this? A 5inch susser would be pants on 4x and a 100mm HT you can ride all day on isn't great for anything other than xc.

I currently have a DH bike, but when my baby arrives I doubt I will be able to justify keeping it (the bike that is.)

Posted 2 years ago #
Hairychested - Member

My UK-designed bike - a 456SS with CF rigid forks and 69er wheels is the most suitable machine to give the Irish some serious headaches:
1. Why do you ride with such big tyres? (2.1 Continental semi-slicks)
2. What happened to your rear wheel so it's small?
3. Why do you have disc brakes?
4. What is this frame?
5. Why do you ride a heavy bike? (it's 23lbs)
6. When did you get changed? (I walked into the cafe in baggies, no lycra)
7. Is it Raleigh? NO??? I thought Raleigh made good bikes...
Marketing, huh?

Posted 2 years ago #
ooOOoo - Member

Could I suggest that, for example, a Bionicon is defintely NOT a 'designed for UK' bike.
I tried one and it's great, but would really only suit somewhere very steep

Posted 2 years ago #
Dirtynap - Member

hilldodger - Your lucky, having my backside bounce along 25 miles of dalby forest just is not my idea of fun.

Posted 2 years ago #
thomthumb - Member

dirty nap - stand up then?

Posted 2 years ago #
molgrips - Member

Most stuff in trail centres, and outside of them, is perfectly rideable, and enjoyable, on a 100mm hardtail, but an LT hardtail looks hard- it's the poseurs equivalent of having an RS4 instead of an A4.

That's sheer bollocks.

Having slack angles allows you to attack really steep stuff (I mean really steep chutes/drops etc) rathern than mincing down it with your tongue out and your arse in the air like we used to.

And you don't choose a bike for 'most stuff' you choose for the bits you really want to enjoy. I might spend 45 minutes say winching myself up the hermitage climb in the Black Mountains (aka Tal y Maes) but I'll choose a bike to enjoy the 10 minute excellent DH on the other side. Which by the way is extremely rocky (or am I thinking of the one off the reservoir climb?) and far far more enjoyable on a 7" Patriot than a 100mm ht.

Posted 2 years ago #
mike-at-dialledbikes - Member

What's all this marketing stuff that people keep referring to?

I've never designed a bike for the UK. I've only ever designed bikes for riding (not riding in a particular place or country).

Posted 2 years ago #
molgrips - Member

Well it's not really about designing a bike for a particular country so much, mud considerations aside; it's about designing it for a market. And that depends on the kind of riding that most riders do which may or may not be linked to the terrain...

Posted 2 years ago #
hora - Member

Marketing and if these companies can make it in other markets they'll probably lean on another aspect to trade their wares..

Posted 2 years ago #
poppa - Member

@mike

I think the original comment was regarding bike companies that release 'UK specific' bike models - I think Giant, Kona and Commencal have done it. This obviously doesn't apply to DB.

Posted 2 years ago #
mike-at-dialledbikes - Member

Maybe the thread has gone off on a tangent, but the OP seems to be referring to bikes "specifically for UK riding".

Posted 2 years ago #
b r - Member

I ride upwards of 100 miles every week offroad in the UK, and while the majority (in terms of miles) of my riding is on bridlepaths in the Chilterns - I still like to go to Afan, The Peaks, Malverns, Lakes and spend a few weeks in the Scottish Borders (7 Stanes and trail riding) every year.

I need a bike that is comfy, safe, light, fast, plenty of mudroom, strong and will stop plus XC (ride, race, enduro), uplift-semi-DH, 4x (with my sons) and trail - in no particular order. Also one that doesn't require constant and expensive LBS/specialist maintenance - I can do most DIY myself.

I use to have a number of bikes, now I just have one - I choose a 456Ti, with a selection of 'builds' (120/140/150mm forks, light to heav-ish wheels/tyres etc.

So 'UK designed', but is it 'designed for UK'?

On the whole yes, with the only moan been that rear mudroom is not great once on +2.25/2.4 tyres.

Posted 2 years ago #
thomthumb - Member

I've only ever designed bikes for riding (not riding in a particular place or country).

says the man who's called one of his bikes alpine!!

Posted 2 years ago #
molgrips - Member

"Specifically for UK riding" presumably means the same as "designed for the UK" - I assume no bike manufacture is saying that the bike is not suitable for use abroad.

Here's another question. Do more people in the UK have only one bike than in say the USA, or in Germany?

Posted 2 years ago #
jedi - Member

high5 dialled mike

Posted 2 years ago #
hora - Member

thomthumb

Posted 2 years ago #
mudsux - Member

Having slack angles allows you to attack really steep stuff (I mean really steep chutes/drops etc) rathern than mincing down it with your tongue out and your arse in the air like we used to.

Or alternatively, just lower your saddle.

Admittedly, that's not going to change the head angle of your bike but the effect on stability and centre of gravity means it's easier to tackle stuff like really steep chutes/drops etc. and your arse won't be in the air.

There's also something called adjustable fork travel....

Posted 2 years ago #
Saccades - Member

My UK-designed bike - a 456SS with CF rigid forks and 69er wheels is the most suitable machine to give the Irish some serious headaches:

tbf, that's a bloody odd bike, tbs, tbs... Plus your northside, you don't have anything even remotely resembling an incline, never mind a mountain. Did you take a look at the NPS1? it was in slade, which is about as close to you as you can get and be up a mountain.

Posted 2 years ago #
molgrips - Member

Or alternatively, just lower your saddle.

It's not the same. My 5 with the saddle down is nothing like as good as my Patriot on the super steep stuff, because of the head angle.

And adjusting a fork longer (or fitting a longer fork) puts your centre of gravity higher.. which is why on a bike designed for a long fork you might get a lower BB or a slacker seat angle etc etc.

Posted 2 years ago #
mudsux - Member

my comment was based on why your arse would be in the air.

and considering the fact most the time at trail centres is spent riding upwards through narrow winding trails before you can blast down the other side - makes you wonder really what is the most suitable bike.

Posted 2 years ago #
joemarshall - Member

Santa Cruz County in Califormia gets an average of 770mm rainfall per year, and Marin County even more... considerably more rain than we get here in East Sussex.

Yeah, but a)it is very concentrated in some months of the year, and they get heavier rain followed by dry days, rather than a lot of on and off changeable days and b)in many Californian riding areas, they officially close the trails for 3 days after a rain storm - I don't know how much notice people take of this, but I've gone on rides with californians, where they said that the ride was only on if it didn't rain in the days beforehand, as the trails would be closed.

Posted 2 years ago #
molgrips - Member

Why all this talk about trail centres? Do you know anyone who rides only at trail centres? And is that the majority of UK riding? I think not.

Posted 2 years ago #
alpin - Member

interesting thread......

you very rarely see steel frames here in Germany. those that you do see are usually old rickety things with shopping baskets and a rack or dirt bikes.

i ride a DB Alpine and over here it really is one of a kind.

we were talking the other day as a friend of ours wants to come riding with us. one guy suggested a 100mm XC FS, the other a 80mm HT and i suggested a HT with 120mm-ish and got laughed at by all three. one guy said that anything over 100mm on a HT was over kill. the other that 120mm was only for FS.

i'd also agree that most riding here is either on a saddle up-head down xc HT or big'un bouncy FS. there doesn't seem to be much inbetween other than 100mm FS xc rides. oh, and steel is massively frowned upon as it weighs "alot". there are a few German designed frames built to take a 140mm fork (liteville 101, 800€ frame only) but they are few and far between.

i'd also suggest - certainly where i am currently - that even for those with 'proper' bikes their idea of biking is riding long stretches of fire road. there is a serious glut of single trails. but then on the other end of the scale there are quite a few bike parks around here. i recieved a few funny looks when i turned up on my Alpine, although there was one other guy on a HT and he was verdammt schnell.

the same can be said when last year a mate and i rode across the alps. not one single steel frame. quite a few XC HTs and plenty of racey FSs. they may have been quicker than me on the climbs (much quicker than my mate with his 150mm FS - he was walking up, mostly), but they were soon caught on the downs where they were either mincing down with the saddle slapping against their spinchter or sinply carrying their bikes down/across the techy, steeper sections.

needless to say one mate has caught the LT HT bug (from me) and is now the proud owner of a 456 with a Lyrik. he rants and raves about sections of trail that now "come alive" whereas on his FS he found them dead or boring. he also shouts about how he can actually get uphill without having to push the last 20m.

i think most "designed in the UK" ideas are just common sense. why restrict your tyre choice or encourage dirt/muck to enter the seat tube?

Posted 2 years ago #
ade ward - Member

Most bikes which are designed in the uk,, are suited to uk conditions as thats where they were designed test ridden and developed

Posted 2 years ago #