Are we agreed on this?

I’m thinking I will go in from the bottom with a syringe, pulling and pushing a bit to extract any bubbles from the caliper end.

old style fill from bottom is fine, although its also painless just gravity filling from top.

new style is a little bit more of a picky bastard though, and this guide saved my bacon when I was having trouble
http://www.epicbleedsolutions.com/blog/how-to-bleed-new-shimano-brakes/

shonky dp

It’s like making apple pie.
We all do it differently but as long as it tastes like apple pie, it matters not how you get there.
Hth…

Incidentally, I remove caliper, pump pads out a bit, bleed upwards to the funnel, rock solid every time.

I have a new caliper but old style levers.

I’ll fill from caliper up, everything pointing up so normally caliper off the bike.When you think your done, use the little plunger and repeatedly put it in and out of the funnel hole, it can pull out a few remaining bubbles. Tip from world cup mechanic I read somewhere. Also do a lever squeeze whilst just about opening caliper bleed valve.

I think I tried that epic bleed procedure and it didn’t work, the shimano tech-docs method did though. Can’t remember what the difference was, and i might be confusing that anecdote with Avid brakes.

I bleed from caliper to lever via syringe forcing the fluid out at the lever. Then lever to caliper (hanging down) forcing the fluid out at the caliper into a little bag.

This video is very comprehensive and clear

, the shimano tech-docs method did though.

Exactly – manufacturer prepares and publishes comprehensive instructions to get the best from their product.

Just follow them.

I can never seem to push the oil from the bottom up so just go in from the top now.

Exactly – manufacturer prepares and publishes comprehensive instructions to get the best from their product.
Just follow them.
[/quote]
+1

I can never seem to push the oil from the bottom up so just go in from the top now.

How come? It should have no resistance at all.

Pads out
Bleed block in
Level the lever
Fit Shimano funnel to lever bleed port
One syringe of fluid from bottom to top
Remove block and funnel, reposition lever
Job jobbed. 🙂

Is it definitively a better method to remove the brake from the bike, or just the caliper?

I’m wondering if it actually helps, or if it’s just to minimise the risk of contaminating the pads…?

Fit Shimano funnel to lever bleed port

Don’t have one of those.

Don’t have one of those.

£6 in shops.

Get one. They’re about £4.

Because the definitive method uses one.

I mean I don’t have a lever bleed port. They are old levers.

Molgrips, just level the lever, undo the two phillips screws and remove the cover and rubber expansion doofer underneath the cover.
Then

One syringe of fluid from bottom to top

Reinstall rubber doofer and cover and return the lever to its normal position.
(If you have a bite point adjustment screw on the lever wind it all the way out first)

That’s what I was planning to do – cheers.

If you like very little lever travel (I do) then file down the little yellow spacer block by a mm or so.

How come? It should have no resistance at all.

I’ve got a 100ml syringe and I’ll be damned if I can squeeze the piston past a few mm… tried every trick in the book. Not had an issue with the brakes bleeding from the top.

Decided to look up an old thread ” what is the free stroke screw” that bigjim refers to?
Free stroke

You are taking the top cap off the reservoir when you try and put fluid in yes?

Bleeding from the caliper up sounds a nicer way of doing it, but it’s going to be bloody messy with the old levers?

The proper Shimano kit has a little lock-on cover with a hose going to a collecting jar.

If you like very little lever travel (I do) then file down the little yellow spacer block by a mm or so.

Or use a bit of cardboard and push the pistons out after the bleed. I had to do that on my road calipers.
Always make sure to clear air bubbles from the syringe!

(Blimey epicbleedsolutions sure produce epic instructions!)

but it’s going to be bloody messy with the old levers?

Just pouring the fluid into the chamber on the old levers was always ok for me. Tap tap tap to get rid of air.

Yup, that’s always been my method.

I like the idea of using a syringe to push fluid (and any air) up to the lever, but I can’t work out in my head how to do it with out fluid going EVERYWHERE.

(and not about to buy the screw on lever cover with tube)

Just wrap a cloth round it to soak it up. It’s only mineral oil.

Could manufacture a top cap with a hole in it, like Hope did for their bleed kit.

Just wrap a cloth round it to soak it up. It’s only mineral oil.

At that price.. no!

molgrips – Member
You are taking the top cap off the reservoir when you try and put fluid in yes?

Yes

molgrips – Member

Just wrap a cloth round it to soak it up. It’s only mineral oil.

At that price.. no![/quote]
Sorry, what price? Do you mean the cost of mineral oil? I never re-use it.

Well.. I thought about using generic mineral oil.. and then I thought about all the recent stories about seal failures and such with the new brakes.. and I thought it safer to go for the ridiculously priced Shimano stuff. Afer all I might be able to buy a litre of Citroen power steering fluid for half the price, but I only have one set of Shimano brakes so that doesn’t benefit me much.

I’ve been using Castrol LHM mineral fluid fo r over 10 years.
Recently swapped to Shimano Red mineral oil (only because it was on offer and I had a wiggle voucher to use up). Cant say ive noticed any difference that simply bleeding with fresh fluid wouldn’t give.
Oh and don’t re-use old fluid. It does deteriorate over time and goes through plenty of heat cycles at the caliper end and picks up a bit of crud.

I have the proper bleed kit for the old style levers, where there is a cap that clamps on top of the reservoir etc.. still made a mess. So just reverted to gravity fed method and worked fine.

The newer levers with the funnel that attaches to the top is a much better solution but still most the time I’m lazy so just use gravity fed again.

Also another recommendation to use Shimano oil. I tried the Halfords stuff and the lever feels heavy and sluggish compared to Shimano also the seals failed very quickly soon after but not sure if the Halfords oil sped that up or they were just on the way out anyways.

Citroen mineral oil and Shimano are just different coloured, same stuff

If you like very little lever travel (I do) then file down the little yellow spacer block by a mm or so.

You can do the same without overfilling by removing wheel and pulling lever and advancing the pistons.

Both methods temporary though until pads wear.

Citroen mineral oil and Shimano are just different coloured, same stuff

Link?

According to Shimano

Shimano has never approved a third party brake fluid to be compatible with our brakes and we never will.

Shimano claim otherwise.

Do you know for a fact or did you just read it on the internet?

https://www.bikerumor.com/2013/04/11/tech-speak-brake-fluid-break-down-and-implications-for-road-disc-updated/

Can consumers use fluids other than your specific branded fluid in their brakes?

Shimano: Absolutely not, mineral oil is an unfortunate term to use because it is so vague and generic. The term mineral oil can describe a lot of different compounds. It’s kind of like the term salt, which refers to much more than just table salt. Most of us are probably aware that the mineral oil that you buy at the drug store is not the same as the mineral oil we use in brakes, but that extends to different brands of mineral oil brake fluid as well. We should really call it “proprietary brake fluid” but I guess that doesn’t have the same ring to it. I can tell you with absolute certainty that Magura fluid will destroy Shimano brakes in a very short amount of time. I’ve seen it happen several times. The rubber seals in the system have to be specifically designed to interact with a specific brake fluid. If you use a different fluid, the seals will interact differently. Specifically, when you put Magura fluid in Shimano brake, the lever feels spongy and the pad contact point changes because the square edge seal at the caliper is breaking free from the piston at a different time.

There are third party companies that make mineral oil brake fluid and it says right on the bottle that it is compatible with all mineral brakes. Shimano has never approved a third party brake fluid to be compatible with our brakes and we never will. How is it possible that one fluid can work in both Magura and Shimano brakes if Magura fluid destroys Shimano brakes?

Everyone should read that Bikerumour article.