The last Comet went out of service in the ’80’s so the fuselage fatigue issue that caused the early crashes was fixed. It was the first aircraft of it’s type, a highly risky venture and we got our fingers burned. That’s Aerospace and that’s why there are only reason why there are only two companies in the world who can build big passenger aircraft. The Comet went on to have a very safe operational record as did the Nimrod. The problem was once the safety issue came to the fore the cost to address that on top of an already massivley overpriced upgrade probramme was the final nail in the coffin – so scrapped on financial grounds not engineering/technical grounds. There is not engineering or techincal reason why the aircraft could not have been built and would have probably been the most modern and upto date system flying for some time.

What I want to know is how spending billions on planes, bombs and boats will stop Belgians blowing themselves up at gigs or even stop them being radicalised by the wahabist clerics Saudi produces ?

Trying to work out exactly how maritime patrol aircraft will defeat ISIS.

1. Do you think that “organised terrorists” are the only potential threat to UK security?
2. Do you think that there is anything to stop “organised terrorists” from attempting attacks by sea, or using it as a route for smuggling?
3. Do you think that sending a “message” to Russia might help them be cooperative on the “organised terrorist” front?
4. If you read the reports about the vulnerability of underwater infrastructure (fibre optics, and presumably gas/oil pipelines etc) in the press at the weekend – then you might be concerned that we had limited capability to protect essential infrastructure key to our economy.
5. Do you think that the French Air Force (who are currently filling our gap in the north sea) would rather be helping us or dealing with local, and international issues of their own right now?

Ninfan – all large aircraft are effectively coach built and the new nimrods they were building did have new wings built to accommodate the new larger engines. That was not the reason they were scrapped – they were scrapped due to financial mis-management. The correct decision in the circumsatances, but a great shame all the same. The Nimrod was a fantastic aircraft, it did a great service to this country for decades and had an operational envolope that no other aircraft of it’s type could match, and still can’t.

4. If you read the reports about the vulnerability of underwater infrastructure (fibre optics, and presumably gas/oil pipelines etc) in the press at the weekend – then you might be concerned that we had limited capability to protect essential infrastructure key to our economy.

A few Nimrod replacements won’t make any difference. If someone with nuclear subs wanted to sabotage them they could easily do so. The Russians are more interested in selling gas than blowing up our terminals though.

3. Do you think that sending a “message” to Russia might help them be cooperative on the “organised terrorist” front?

Using the cold war as an example I don’t believe that an arms race makes other countries more cooperative

Using the cold war as an example I don’t believe that an arms race makes other countries more cooperative

Does tend to stop them invading your territory…

But this kneejerk military spluging is all about making the government look like they are taking control in light of the terrorist attacks elsewhere

Just like they did after 9/11 and we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq

And do you actually think Russia will invade regardless of a couple of extra ships?

Cameron will make the case for airstrikes against IS in Syria on Thursday

Postive news we are increasing spending and smart politics to marry defensive security with economic security.

Corbyn was rambling all over the place in his parliamentary responce and was brushed off with ease.

Postive news we are increasing spending and smart politics to marry defensive security with economic security.

Jammers – there are only two people who could possibly have made that statement. You and George Osbourne.

Have you ever seen the episode of Black Books where Bill Bailey has swallowed the Little Book of Calm, and is endlessly reciting it? Sorry fella, but you’re starting to sound a bit like that with the latest press released soundbites from central office 😆

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmbUOrPby9M[/video]

Postive news we are increasing spending and smart politics to marry defensive security with economic security.

That must be a record for number of Oxymorons in a single sentence…

Cameron will make the case for airstrikes against IS in Syria on Thursday

Great, ‘cos airstrikes work really well don’t they 😕 😕

What I want to know is how spending billions on planes, bombs and boats will stop Belgians blowing themselves up at gigs or even stop them being radicalised by the wahabist clerics Saudi produces ?

Ah, yes exactly…….. but that would require some lateral thinking and good problem solving ability – sadly, I can’t see anyone in a position of power in this country being able to do that.

I think the problem with the MOD is that they’re always fighting the last war, if you know what I mean. Take the perceived Russian threat for example – why would they need to take armed action against the UK, when all they’ve got to do is wait until most of the UKs gas supply & power generation is reliant on their gas.

The spending review is great,the masses can feel good again, safe in the knowledge that lots of hi tech modern weapons will keep us secure, and the strong decisive government really are looking out for us, because our own marginalised citizens turning against us and becoming terrorists is rather unsettling to think about, and gun nuts can get on with playing RAF aeroplane top trumps ^^^^ OOOO-RAH

I remember looking around at some Nimrod parts in storage – an undercarriage leg forging had a CofC dated 1948 for a Dehavilland Comet IV! The MOD previously rejected an MPA designed on a Boeing airframe in the 1990s- they chose the Nimrod conversion ‘cos it was cheaper! The Rivet Joint used by the RAF to replace the Nimrod R1 is also a 1940s Boeing airframe and is due to keep flying for another 30 years.

I think the problem with the MOD is that they’re always fighting the last war, if you know what I mean.

With Trident we’re still fighting a war from the 50s!

Completely insane situation.

Great, ‘cos airstrikes work really well don’t they 😕

1.Drop some bombs
2. ???????
3. World peace

Nimrod was already being held up as an example of poor project management when I was at university in the early 90’s. Can’t believe it took them so long to can the project.

Not our ‘finest hour’

Take the perceived Russian threat for example – why would they need to take armed action against the UK, when all they’ve got to do is wait until most of the UKs gas supply & power generation is reliant on their gas.

I think we only get a small %age of our gas from Russia.

Postive news we are increasing spending and smart politics to marry defensive security with economic security.

you are a Daily Mail random word generator and I claim my desk top statuette of Kim Kardashian’s side boob.

I think the problem with the MOD is that they’re always fighting the last war, if you know what I mean

oops, I’ d forgotten to say WW2 or The Cold War, rather than the more recent smaller conflicts/campaigns like the Falklands, Iraq and Afghanistan – although I’m sure both the latter would have felt plenty War like if one was there getting shot at and bombed! It’s just that my parents and their parents were of the generation who lived and fought through WW1 and WW2, so listening to their stories puts a different perspective on things.

Again with the latter, I think it’s probably because most politicians (& particularly the MOD) are completely unaware of the potential threat to National Security.

More like the voters aren’t so they reckon that buying some fancy new HW will make us all feel safer and vote for them…..

kimbers – Member

But this kneejerk military spluging is all about making the government look like they are taking control in light of the terrorist attacks elsewhere

You think that the governent went onto CRA* and just put some of these in their basket last night?

*Chain Reaction Aircraft

More like the voters aren’t so they reckon that buying some fancy new HW will make us all feel safer and vote for them…..

Yes, I think you’re right – although it’s encouraging that some people can see it’s a waste of money.

You think that the governent went onto CRA* and just put some of these in their basket last night?

Well, I’d like to think that someone has properly thought through and detailed a defence strategy, but going on the current governments record, my guess is it’s a back of a fag packet job. So, while they might not have just stuck a panic order for planes in, they should have been able to see yonks ago that we might not need so many of the types they’re buying.

The madness was not scrapping them to start with and starting with new, modern aircraft.

I agree. Something like the F35 Joint Strike. A pinnacle of modern military project management 😉

I claim my desk top statuette of Kim Kardashian’s side boob.

I’m delighted to say I have no idea what you are speaking of 🙂

It’s embarrassing to have recently had to ask French etc to help us out as the Nimrods where scrapped but it was an ancient aircraft, my Dad worked on the fuel system design 55 years ago ! Having our own self designed and manufacturerd kit is desirable but in today’s world when top quality US products are available off the shelf that’s very compelling.

Great, ‘cos airstrikes work really well don’t they 😕

Yes when in support of ground troops – be they PKK, Russian, Iranian or Syrian. Add this to the US special forces who are on their way.

but in today’s world when top quality US products are available off the shelf that’s very compelling.

I can’t decide whether that is irony or sarcasm…

http://sputniknews.com/us/20150521/1022390717.html

More than 40 percent of investments in the Pentagon’s portfolio were affected by cost growth and scheduling delays, according to a recent Government Accountability Office report

but the P-8 isn’t a Pentagon project, it’s now just a Boeing one. Unfortunately we will **** with the spec enough to make it overrun of course

So… 5 years ago the government scrapped 9 brand new British built Nimrod aircraft leaving the UK with no maritime patrol capability and today they announce that we are buying 9 Boeing P8s from the USA because we have no maritime patrol capability.

Confused.

You mean like they also cancelled the STOVL carriers and went Cats and Traps and then cancelled that and went STOLV again – later to find out that the F-35B is an underpowered short range piece of shit (under good authority from an aviation engineer) and that the STOVL configuration isn’t good for high intensity carrier operations because of the stresses placed on the engine. So we have a giant supercarrier, that doesn’t have the reach or high mission capability of one. WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Is it to do with all the Russian sub’s snooping around our waters?

underpowered short range piece of shit

Total bollocks, it’s nowhere near as good as that!

Ground attack Typhoons will be fully awesome though 🙄

cloudnine – Member
Is it to do with all the Russian sub’s snooping around our waters?

Possibly, or the Tu-160 Blackjacks that are taking the scenic route via the North Sea to bomb Daesh, instead of going via the Caspian Sea…

Very disappointed not to see AT-AT s on the order books along with Big nipple guns…..

On a more serious note we should be buying re-winged A-10’s for close air support and Rafale M’s or Super Hornets for our carriers.

F35 = very expensive waste of money, slow, unmanoeuvrable, prone to catching fire and to carry sufficient arms it needs external hard points which defeat the stealth. Oh the gun won’t work till God knows when as the software won’t be ready till then and it carries…….200 rounds, that’s around 4 secs. Absolute rubbish in a CAS role! A10 is the U.S. Armies most called for air asset when the guys on the ground need help!

Bloody hell, just doing some reading on the F35, if you thought the Nimrod was bad

From Wiki:

By 2014, the program was $163 billion over budget [and] seven years behind schedule

😯

The money is no object. I have worked on a £1BN building for something that hasn’t even been precured yet!

On a more serious note we should be buying re-winged A-10’s for close air support and Rafale M’s or Super Hornets for our carriers.

Vert to cats to vert to cats might be a change too far even for the MoD!

A10s on the other hand……..BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRPPPPPP

I like that the F35 fuel tankers now have to painted in brilliant white as it doesn’t work with warm fuel.
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/159421/f_35-needs-white-fuel-trucks,-parking-shades.html

F35, can’t see the MOD or the government putting our future defence at risk in a substandard piece of kit

Cameron’s statement due Thur and speculation that the vote for air strikes will be early next week.

One bit I don’t understand. 30% of the MoD’s civilian staff are being cut. What do these people do? How can an organisation loose that number of people on top of big reductions in 2010 and still continue to function effectively?

F35, can’t see the MOD or the government putting our future defence at risk in a substandard piece of kit

And you are actually aware of the previous track record of the MOD and the government in this particular area?