Death of the mid sized event? « Singletrack Forum

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Death of the mid sized event?

67 posts & 26 voices | Started 1 year ago by Harry_the_Spider | Latest reply from mrmo

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cookeaa - Member

"Events" or "Races"?

To my mind an Event is a non-competitive way of getting people out riding in a group, these seem to be on the increase...

Races are also still pretty popular, there is perhaps a general shift among the large majority of MTBers away from straight XC races towards Endurance, DH and "Combined discipline" type competitions...

The biggest challenge I think faced by Event/Race organisers is costs, high costs = High entry fees = insuficient entries...

I do think there's room for something like the good old club TT model, it's not a race merely a bunch of riders setting off at intervals from one point taking a pre-determined route to another point and their start/finish times being logged, but it's NOT a race, no prizes, no points to win, no podiums, merely a training excercise for those looking to guage their performance...

Works on the road can't see why it wouldn't for MTBs, should be cheaper and easier to operate, and could help encourage people start racing too...

Posted 1 year ago #
hels - Member

Thats how we started at Innerleithen a few years ago, running evening XCTT events for 20-30 folk. Easy to run, manual timing, we charged £10 per entry if I recall (and £4 of that is the BC levy). The biggest work was getting the course marked out well enough !

Posted 1 year ago #
WorldClassAccident - Member

As well as no insurance, we ran the night race with no marshals as everyone was in the beer tent.

Fraud - don't think so but I will agree with bloody stupid

Posted 1 year ago #
Brownbacks - Member

Brownbacks - looks good.

Small point on your website though - where are the races held? It's not immediately obvious

Lee Quarry

and no you don't do the full hill in every race!

Posted 1 year ago #
Brownbacks - Member

The biggest challenge I think faced by Event/Race organisers is costs, high costs = High entry fees = insuficient entries...

four races for £40 for series pre-entry, £20 for the Lads and Lasses, can you do it cheaper?

loads of prizes competitive and spot

(we even have a singlespeed sub category (thanks Charlie the Bikemonger for generous sponsorship))

Posted 1 year ago #
brassneck - Member

I reckon it's more likely that the explosion of mtb's a few years back has gone, and most have moved on to road bikes for whatever reason. Any given Sunday round my way I'll see 20+ roadies 0 mtb'ers. I suppose it's more likely that I'll see roadies but the numbers on mtbs have definitely tailed off. Less audience = less income for all events, but national ones are more likely to be able to shrug it off.

Posted 1 year ago #
Harry_the_Spider - Member

can you do it cheaper?

You are in the very fortunate position of having a ready made venue and reduced overheads.

Posted 1 year ago #
Pimpmaster Jazz - Member

You can use bridleways if you are careful. At no point in any of the literature issued by the organisers of HtN was the word "race" used.

Like the Dyfi, which is an excellent 'event'.

four races for £40 for series pre-entry, £20 for the Lads and Lasses, can you do it cheaper?

That is very good value.

Posted 1 year ago #
cookeaa - Member

four races for £40 for series pre-entry, £20 for the Lads and Lasses, can you do it cheaper?

That is very good value.

+1 - I shall have a gander... ta

Posted 1 year ago #
Brownbacks - Member

Harry_the_Spider - Member

can you do it cheaper?
You are in the very fortunate position of have massivley reduced overheads thanks to free access

I agree, TBH I think Bury MBC should be picking up the site tab for you

Posted 1 year ago #
Brownbacks - Member

having a ready made venue

not very good for putting in stakes though and the weather is a massive risk

Posted 1 year ago #
Harry_the_Spider - Member

Bury MBC didn't charge for the use of the park to be fair to them. We had to pay for closing paths outside it and for use of the FC land.

Anyway, we are digressing from the original point that without a big influx of sponsorship cash the 400+ rider grass roots event scene isn't looking too healthy.

Posted 1 year ago #
Brownbacks - Member

but SSUK seems to be going strong

Posted 1 year ago #
Harry_the_Spider - Member

It has some heritage and a loyal following.

Posted 1 year ago #
WorldClassAccident - Member

Brownbacks - The Big Bike Bash is £40 for adults, £20 for under 18 and £0.01 for under 12s. That is for around 40 different competitions including zip wire across a lake, climbing tower, kayaks, pedalo's, swimming pool, archery, dipping pond, nature trails, includes camping.

In summary: Yes, I can do it cheaper

I also have the advantage of a ready made venue and I don't pay anyone except in beer tokens redeemable at the beer tent.

Posted 1 year ago #
jonba - Member

Kielder is massively out of the way from anywhere and doesn't have the reputation of other places.

The K100 was a massive success because it filled a niche. If I want to do a lap event there are loads and I'll enter a big popular one before a first timer.

Smaller events might work. I've starded doing TLI road race this year. Really good fun, minimal entry fees. Works though because "everyone" goes. To start up it would be difficult but now it's established itself ou can get 50+ riders twice a week throughout summer.

Maybe there's a market for that? I'd be interested in short 1-2hour races mid week local to Newcastle. Plenty of scope, but no money to be made.

Posted 1 year ago #
wwaswas - Member

including zip wire across a lake, climbing tower, kayaks, pedalo's, swimming pool, archery

I can see why you didn't get insurance - the risk assessment would have taken forever

Posted 1 year ago #
Pimpmaster Jazz - Member

Maybe there's a market for that? I'd be interested in short 1-2hour races mid week local to Newcastle. Plenty of scope, but no money to be made.

There's one down here in the twee home counties which is always full. We have looked into doing something similar at Aston Hill both for both XC and DH - the primary issue is finding the people and time to organise it - it's something we'd need to have started sorting the roots for late last year. I think it's a great idea though and there's been a lot of positive feedback to it.

Posted 1 year ago #
atlaz - Member

How much do people charge for online entry systems out of interest? It's not a massively hard thing to write from a software point of view so I wonder if it's a small industry, pay what they ask sort of thing

Posted 1 year ago #
terrahawk - Member

It has some heritage and a loyal following.

so does HTN

no insurance at the BBB? you're insane, right?

Posted 1 year ago #
grum - Member

no insurance at the BBB? you're insane, right?

S'funny innit - you are meant to get PL insurance for all sorts of silly things these days, but a mountain bike event with zip wires, climbing, archery etc seems like something it's probably quite sensible for!

WCA - was the event not economically viable with insurance?

Posted 1 year ago #
Harry_the_Spider - Member

How much do people charge for online entry systems out of interest? It's not a massively hard thing to write from a software point of view so I wonder if it's a small industry, pay what they ask sort of thing

It depends on what level you want. Somebody like UK Results will process your payments for a very reasonable cut. Sports Ident will look after your timing and results also. Both work well, but you get what you pay for.

The best bit for the event organiser as far as I was concerned is that we had no exposure to our customer’s bank or card details so there was no come back to us in the event of a security problem. Pay somebody else to deal with the hassle.

Posted 1 year ago #
Brownbacks - Member

There's one down here in the twee home counties which is always full. We have looked into doing something similar at Aston Hill both for both XC and DH - quote]
our original idea was for an evening series but it does not work unless the course is short/ easy to mark

[quote]the primary issue is finding the people and time to organise it - it's something we'd need to have started sorting the roots for late last year.

always the problem

I think it's a great idea though and there's been a lot of positive feedback to it.

the challenge is always making ideas happen

the reality is that you need a lot of commitment to make these things happen

How much do people charge for online entry systems out of interest? It's not a massively hard thing to write from a software point of view so I wonder if it's a small industry, pay what they ask sort of thing

our online entry costs have halved this year, it also gets free advertising by default at a key group of riders, entry by cheque will be gone in 2-3 years due to the actions of the banks

timing systems, there is a small company that's working in the cyclocross world who we are probably switching to for 2011 who are excellent value. He also has other ideas which would be a game changer for the costs of electronic timing.

If anyone is looking at setting something up they can always by any of our team beer and we will bore them to death with what we have done

Posted 1 year ago #
ourmaninthenorth - Member

In no particular order:

*MTB's anti-club culture

*MTB's historic anti-racing culture

*Time - we all only have so much. We will cherry pick our events.

*Time - maybe camping driven events aren't needed. How about a hybrid between XC and enduro - 6 hours sounds OK.

*Summer - people go on holiday.

*winter - it's filthy and cold.

*A need to attend showpiece Events - MM is a self-proprelled Big Deal in people's lives

*We want flashy - low key seems to be a problem with so many MTBers. Testers have no problem with a low entry fee and an honesty box for tea and cake in the church hall. You don't see that at MM.

*Racing - the bigger the event, the less competitive we all need to be. How many attend MM or Sleepless really to race....?

(Oh, and I'll lend a hand with some of the organising for next year's HTN, though I'll also be "racing" it... )

Posted 1 year ago #
Trekster - Member

new series of events in SW Scotland
Local Sc/BC dev coach Alan Denman has come up with this series to promote cycling and competition in SW Scotland. Alan got all the local clubs together and organised them to put on this series of events. So far there has been a positive response The 1st year is being looked at as a feeler year to find out which events riders like and next years programme will be tweaked accordingly.
There was no race series of any discipline in the area with any "serious" competitor having to travel up to the central belt, Edinburgh etc or south. The hope is that there will be enough interest to maintain some sort of series for the young riders taking up the sport from the list of clubs on the site

Posted 1 year ago #
Brownbacks - Member

Maybe there's a market for that? I'd be interested in short 1-2hour races mid week local to Newcastle. Plenty of scope, but no money to be made.

why do you want to make money? are there no other reasons for doing this sort of thing?

Posted 1 year ago #
ourmaninthenorth - Member

why do you want to make money? are there no other reasons for doing this sort of thing?

Falls away, again, from the historic culture of clubs organising road races, time trials, reliability rides and audaxes. Few of these are money generating, and if they are rarely more than a few quid. And none of them would make any money if all the volunteers started charging for their time to stand on a roundabout in the middle of a busy A road....

Posted 1 year ago #
WorldClassAccident - Member

grum - might have been viable but when I asked them to send the insurance details to WorldClassAccident at gmail the phone went very quiet and I never heard back

Posted 1 year ago #
oldagedpredator - Member

I think part of it is people just dont know about the smaller events unless they're in the local area and people dont travel. Dark and White always seem to get a good turn out for the Peak District trailquests and the Marathon they did recently had looked to have around the hundred mark in riders. Possibly because they've built up a strong following and there's a lot of people live close enough to the Peak to give it a go. Although they did cut the winter series back to 6 events from 8 this year, atleast the summer is still 6 events. First one is Macc Forest area on 11th May.

The Grizedale Giant was recently cancelled and the reason given was lack of numbers. It was cheap for a two day trailquest event. I guess part of this was the lakes is out of the normal area Dark and White draw from.

Went up to the NEMBOS event in Blanchland only 50 odd people did it. Thought it was a real shame as the guys organising had gained access to some estate tracks that arent rights of way. I guess the same thing, relatively small pool to draw from in terms of local riders.

Posted 1 year ago #
Pimpmaster Jazz - Member

I asked them to send the insurance details to WorldClassAccident at gmail the phone went very quiet and I never heard back

Posted 1 year ago #
Pimpmaster Jazz - Member

What was the turnout to the original NEMBAs etc. back in the day?

Posted 1 year ago #
mrmo - Member

I can remember the malvern classic having to hold qualifiers, 400 in sport, what changed? Less interest in racing. A move towards non racing events, how many people actually race at 24hr events?

Posted 1 year ago #
mrmo - Member

Double post

Posted 1 year ago #