and then to witness one of them out cold and twitching with their head cracked open on a kerb while the other breaks down in tears of remorse..

Thing is in this case there wasn’t even any remorse, they fled the scene. I’d prosecute the two cyclists who were with him too.

What point am I missing?

The point that no-one’s actually arguing against the fact that punching people is wrong. I think there’s probbly a healthy consensus on this matter. Deaths resulting from punches to the head isn’t the point of this particular discussion really; had the victim died from hitting his head following just being pushed over, then we wouldn’t be arguing about punching people in the face at all. The issue here is that a violent attack has caused a death. And that the sentencing of the attacker has created a debate around appropriateness/proportionality of sentencing.

Of course, we could go on to discuss just how many accidents are caused by careless drivers opening their doors without due consideration for other road-users, but I spect that will be as equally off-tangential as Yunki’s punching in the face sub-discussion.

Elf I really can’t be bothered – you carry on with your own ‘entirely relevant’ submissions 🙄

If you were in front of me in an agitated and potentially violent state

I’d like to think it would be more like this, Elf..

Yunki et al…Fred’s never wrong, why can’t you just accept that?

Fred’s never wrong

I know this.. it’s why I was so saddened that he jumped on my benign and benevolent post.. I think the post century exhaustion has made fred paranoid perhaps..?

🙁

I’ll look out for a grovelling email and simpering public apology later today.. 🙂

Take a deep breath, it’s only an attack of Freditis. I’m off to find some more positive vibes 😉

he’s not a cyclist, he’s a mental who happend to be on a bike

I’d prosecute the two cyclists who were with him too

If you read the various news reports the other two cyclists were cycling on the same road at the same time but were not connected in any other way. Another reason not to draft unknown cyclists!!!

he’s not a cyclist, he’s a mental who happend to be on a bike

Who, me?? 😯

That’s a bit unfair…

Yunki et al…Fred’s never wrong, why can’t you just accept that?

Most intelligent thing you’ve ever said in your entire life, Al! 😀

it’s only an attack of Freditis

Which of course is a condition forum dwellers develop whenever they see anything I’ve posted. They suddenly develop an irrational and stupid desire to try and prove me wrong, or resort to personal insults cos they’ve failed to ‘win’ an argument. Invariably follows not reading my posts propperly and actually thinking about things…

My ‘victims’ were all smacked cos they were making extremely threatening gestures or actually attacked me. Par Example; when someone’s deliberately just driven their car into you and then go to get out of their car, you don’t wait to see if they’re gonna do owt else, you smack ’em. Pre-emptive strike. Could actually be considered self-defence in some circumstances.

You really mean this? Just how many people do you get into fights with then?

I cycle in London every day, and strangely, I never get people deliberately driving into me. Never gets even close.

Pre-emptive strike? Sounds awfully butch, but I subscribe to the view that cars will never be able to catch me in a city – I’ve get to see the ones that can bunnyhop kerbs – and if the driver gets out I’m pretty confident I could ride rather faster than they could run.

You really mean this? Just how many people do you get into fights with then?

Talking about 25 years of riding round London, so probbly only about a couple of dozen proper angry incidents, and not all of those came to blows. I do have a short fuse, but a lot less explosive than I used to be, so jolly well have not had any paggas for quite a while now. 🙂

The example I gave; riding along a narrow street (It’s actually called Narrow Street!!), some impatient twunt bibbing cos there was no room to pass due to parked cars, then deliberately drove into the back of me, screaming ‘get out of the ****ing way you ****ing ****!’. Not a very nice man. Jumped off the bike, then he’s gone to get out of the car, so I just reacted instinctively and smacked him one. He thought better of it, and drove off rapidly. Did I do wrong? I don’t really care. You come at me, try to injure me, then expect retribution.

Pre-emptive strike? Sounds awfully butch

Be’ave. If someone looks like they mean to harm you, what you gonna do? Let them? Sod that; dog eat dog. Get the first blow in, hopefully end it there. You don’t know if they’ll pull a tool on you or owt, so don’t hesitate, just knack ’em straight away. Obviously, retiring to a safe distance is preferable, but if you’ve bin almost knocked over and are a bit stunned, you might not have that option.

I’ve ridden off sharpish far more times than I’ve had fights. Far more enjoyable to ride off laughing at them getting all wound up, than get involved in violence. Cos violence can hurt, and get you in trouble.

I do have a short fuse

No shit?

I’ve always been on your side Fred.. (apart from the inconsiderate farmers thing..)

You fight for what is just and good and right and your consistantly being right forms the cornerstone of my belief system.. I always turn to your wise words when times is ‘ard.. you’re like a shinin’ beacon of truth and justice in this dark and seethin’ morass..

you’ve ‘urt me today though guv’nor and no mistake..

I cycle in London every day, and strangely, I never get people deliberately driving into me. Never gets even close

Not in London but I’ve had it a couple of times. I tend to get a bit shirty when it happens as well….. Followed someone home once and gave them the fright of their life after they got out the car. I’ve got a nice line in proper Anglo Saxon expletives and put downs. Plus I look a bit scary too.

Guy in a 3 Series buzzed my gf’s rear tyre once, if I’d been there hospital and police cells would have been in tif story.

Sympathies on the racist asshat. But whacking people can have real consequences.

Cos violence can hurt, and get you in trouble.

We can all agree on that; I learned my lesson 25 years back. I got into a fight, hit a guy extremely (far too) hard, put him in hospital for a couple of days. He’d clobbered my girlfriend and we’d both been showered in glass, but there was no excuse for my stupid overreaction.

Just a (little) bit harder and I’d have been facing a very serious charge and the strong probability of jail time.

I’ve not fought anyone since then, nor will I unless it’s life-threatening. Getting the first punch in? Nope; been there, done that, and quarter of a century later I’m still ashamed of how close I came to permanently damaging someone.

I’ve not fought anyone since then, nor will I unless it’s life-threatening. Getting the first punch in? Nope; been there, done that, and quarter of a century later I’m still ashamed of how close I came to permanently damaging someone.

Fair enough, that’s a good stance IMO, but it could have been you in his place….

arm wrestle for a quid..?

Oh dear. I think somebody’s bin out just a little too long in the sun today… 😆

Yunki; why so upset? 😕 I don’t get it.

But whacking people can have real consequences.

I know. S’why I don’t go round doing it too often, only when necessary. Hoping that it won’t be necessary, but unfortunately it’s not a perfect world.

It is interesting to read differing views on the validity/legitimacy of violence in certain circumstances. I’ve had to use violence on a good number of occasions, for self-defence. As I said, I’ll only use it as a last resort, if I believe I’m in danger. I don’t see what’s wrong with that really. I’ve seen/heard of people being proper hurt because they din’t take steps to prevent an attack on themselves. I’m not going to be a victim if I can help it.

And truth be told, and I’m being completely honest here; if someone is seriously injured or worse as a result of me taking what I believe to be appropriate action to prevent them from hurting me, then so be it. I’ll have to deal with the consequences. But I certainly won’t feel much remorse for them. If they intended to hurt me or mine, and ended up suffering themselves, then tough. Live by, die by.

I know. S’why I don’t go round doing it too often, only when necessary.

When is it really necessary though? CErtainly not in at least some of your previous examples.

When is it really necessary though?

When you believe you are in danger of getting seriously hurt.

I’ve had someone attack me with an iron bar. What am I sposed to do, let them batter me to a pulp? Or get straight in there before they’ve even taken a swing at me, thus surprising them so much they drop the bar and run off?

CErtainly not in at least some of your previous examples.

What examples?

Yunki; why so upset? I don’t get it.

I can’t remember..

Well I’m sorry if I did, and I din’t mean to. 🙁

This one:

deliberately drove into the back of me, screaming ‘get out of the ****ing way you ****ing ****!’. Not a very nice man. Jumped off the bike, then he’s gone to get out of the car, so I just reacted instinctively and smacked him one.

…and the iron bar…unable to run away were you?

Guilty of two assaults.

enough of the abuse – mod

Heh

so your all abusing elf for defending his self?

@fathead

stop reading the daily mail, it isn’t doing you any favours!

@cynic-al

not assault, self defense …

pastcaring-not in the eyes of the law it’s not.

cynic-al – Member
pastcaring-not in the eyes of the law it’s not.

you don’t have to wait to be attacked first, for it to be self defense. you just have to fill threatened in the eyes of the law….

you don’t have to wait to be attacked first, for it to be self defense. you just have to fill threatened in the eyes of the law….

True but it’s the use of reasonable force that’s the issue, was it necessary to punch in the face as he was getting out of the car? Could have something else been done, i.e. blocking the door or buggering off.

depends on the situation, sometimes necessary to do more than just one punch to the face.

a few kids on my estate were giving someone a hard time on a regular basis. the guy had had enough stepped out of his house and hit the first one that came for him, with a small axe twice in the head (the kid lived but was a little slow for awhile) the cps never brought charges against the fella with the axe because they saw it that he had no option but to defend himself and his family. the old bill did **** all to defend him!

would i have done the same thing? yes without hesitation!

sometimes in life you need to stand and be counted!

Guilty of two assaults.

Because of course you were there and saw everything that happened so obviously have a full and comprehensive account of events that took place therefore qualifying you to make a full objective judgement oh yeah silly me… 🙄

I do hope you aren’t actually a lawyer. I’m very glad you’re not mine.

HA ha Fred, hate being pwned don’t you? All I can go on is your description, which is clear enough.

As for the rest of you on amateur hour, you need a lot more that to “feel threatened” to successfully invoke self defence.

Don’t late my word for it though, a few seconds on Google should do it.

you are as much an expert on the law as you are at making a disc mount from a spoon!

All I can go on is your description, which is clear enough.

Is it? Is it really Al? Is it? Oh, right, so the briefest description of events is sufficient information for you to base your mighty legal onion on, is it? Blimey, you must be some sort of amazing super-lawyer who can tell exactly what happened without even being there! Amazing!

😆

WEll you’ve said you hit people and have presented nothing that could amount to a defence.

Good back pedalling/turning it on me though. But not good enough.

AND of course if you can explain how they weren’t assaults, you’d be doing so wouldn’t you?

No Al. Because no matter what I say, you will jump on it to try and find some way to ‘win’ your pathetic conflict with me. So there’s no point in me carrying on with this silly argument.

Besides, I have a date with a real lawyer this evening. And she’s a lot prettier than you. 😉