If you cycle on military lands in the Aldershot area the Trail Action Group have arranged a public meeting to discuss access to the land.

take a look at https://www.facebook.com/trailactiongroup

the meeting is at St John’s Hall, 14 St John’s Road, Cove, Farnborough, GU14 9RQ
Congregate at 8pm for prompt 8:15pm start

Mike

Good work Mike. I’ll be there.

Nice one.

Someone needs to amend the FB post though, “Wednesday 16th September at St John’s Hall, “. Wednesday is the 17th.

Thanks all – date now amended!

I cycle there, it’s at the end of my road!

While I sympathise with other MTBers about the potential loss of land it is MOD land and we’re very much guests on it that are tolerated but if cycling disrupts MOD training then they have every right to pull the plug.

If I come across soldiers I turn back or stick to the access roads instead but I have seen other riders peel off into the singletrack in the woods right through MOD manoeuvres and soldier’s camps that have been set up!

We’re sometimes our own worst enemy, because cycling is seen as healthy and not causing pollution we tend to be a holier-than-thou bunch and don’t take kindly to be told off…. I’ve seen idiots over there gobbing off at the soldiers when asked to move on or told not to come through the positions they’ve set up!

The dog walkers are even worse though, there are vans there daily with Dog Walking services sign written on them and they often take out up to 10 dogs at a time and cause complete mayhem.
Apart from anything else I thought you couldn’t use MOD land for profit or to run a business and that’s surely what these dog sitting and dog walking services are doing?!

Wish I could make it but we’re away this week. Good luck chaps, report back if you can. 🙂

Deviant – are these recent occurrences? I know there were some problems probably a couple of years back now but there was a concerted effort to get the word out about responsible access and behaviour so hopefully they aren’t still happening.

Your point is spot on, they are training areas, that’s not in dispute. But the issue is about access when the areas aren’t in use. I did 3 hours on tunnel hill this am. Not a soldier in sight. Yet in theory it was breaking the law and risking prosecution, and if landmarc had seen me theyd have thrown me off. Which is daft, IMHO.

While I sympathise with other MTBers about the potential loss of land it is MOD land and we’re very much guests on it that are tolerated but if cycling disrupts MOD training then they have every right to pull the plug.

I would agree fully with that, if that was the problem, and if it was being applied across the board.

However what we’ve witnessed is a twenty year tolerance of cycle access come to a sudden end, with no real explanation, while walkers and dog walkers (who MOD state are one of the biggest problems) continue unaffected.

There is some background on this, one of the first locations to be affected was the perimiter track at Longmoor, a few miles down the road, with a 5 metre wide disused railway track had Landmarc ‘wardens’ stopping riders who had used it for years, the official explanation being that the track might be needed in the future for vehicle training and that cyclists might get run over…

however its accepted by all that walkers will continue to have access, and the MOD have been unable to explain how cyclists are at any more of a risk than walkers – Indeed there was an interesting back and forth between the local MP and the MOD about this, at which point they changed their tune:

(MC means ministerial communication, MP writing to Minister)

of course, a very real risk is an interesting concept, so it was worth trying to find out just how big a liability risk was involved… so heres the info on all cyclist accident claims for the entire MOD estate for the past 25 years

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/216530/response/541205/attach/html/4/FOI%20Foster%20Cyclists%20on%20MOD%20Estate.xls.html

Which shows a miniscule number of claims that could be construed as involving recreational mountain bikers, maybe five in all those years? and dwarfed by the leaves/snow/pothole claims – so the ‘real risk’ seems to be a red herring.

So, back to the original question why are cyclists any different from dog walkers and horse riders?

Awesome work 🙂

Although they appear to target cyclists specifically as a group of users it seems that they want to discourage use of MOD land to walkers and other recreational users as well. This is evident in some of the recent changes such as the building of a bank of soil in Woodside near Hawley Woods that stops any cars parking there and I understand they have also blocked access to other parking areas as well. So the message to me seems to be that they want everyone to stop using the land.

me seems to be that they want everyone to stop using the land.

They may, but they can’t legally

however, there may be some light in this tunnel

theres a school of thought that if we decided to cycle on the land as a deliberate and individual act of protest against the blanket policy of stopping us cycling on the land, then it would invalidate the application of the very byelaw prohibiting us from cycling on the land…

Good comments ninfan, can you make the meeting to add your info to the discussion?

+1

going to try, might not be able to, but will try.

Ninfan, I am assuming I’m being thick, but can you explain more ? I don’t understand how that works, but the result sounds good !
And annoyingly like the last meeting, I can’t make this one either !

Ninfan
If you are unable to make the meeting please will you make contact with TAG through our Facebook page to arrange a meeting.
Thanks
Mike

Well be there.

So who else is going this Wednesday evening.

I’ll be there!

Don’t be shy – this is a meeting about cycling on military lands in the Aldershot area BUT the indications are that IF a model is agreed in this area it WILL be rolled out across the whole estate.

We’re not expecting people from Dorset or Scotland etc to rock up but if this is you local patch make sure YOUR voice is heard.

Mike

Skippy – Member
This is evident in some of the recent changes such as the building of a bank of soil in Woodside near Hawley Woods that stops any cars parking there and I understand they have also blocked access to other parking areas as well. So the message to me seems to be that they want everyone to stop using the land.

Though it’s probable it’s to stop parking there, a lot of forests now are building piles of soil or digging holes in certain access points more to discourage fly tipping.

For those of us that are interested but could not make it, can someone post a summary of the meeting ?

There should be one on the TAG fb / website in the next few days. As the point was made last night, all the TAG committee are also employed, parents, husbands, etc., and while we’re passionate about getting something done about this we don’t work to standard office type deadlines.

Personally I think the meeting went well and message went across OK, but it would help to confirm that if others that were there that aren’t TAG could give their summaries.

One snippet worth mentioning is that (maybe in response to the holding of a meeting and the evident weight of opinion) the DIO have now agreed to a meeting with TAG in the next month or so. Doesn’t mean they have changed their position but at least they’re prepared to talk again.

Glad to hear that DIO have now agreed to a meeting with TAG in the next month or so. Unfortunately couldn’t get to the meeting last night but will be interested to read the summary on the TAG page.

a lot of forests now are building piles of soil or digging holes in certain access points more to discourage fly tipping.

Ironically since they piled up soil in the parking area there has been more fly tipping on the MOD land! With less cars around there is less chance of the fly tippers being seen, hence more fly tipping

With less cars around there is less chance of the fly tippers being seen, hence more fly tipping

This is exactly the kind of reasoning that we need to be putting to the DIO. Having fewer responsible land users around makes it easier for those engaged in anti-social activities. This is particularly true at night when hardly any civillians are on the land except MTBers and the odd dog-walker.

Unfortunately, at the contentious public meeting held by DIO back in June, MTBing and BMXing were lumped together with arson and fly-tipping as problems – this is the mind-set we are trying to change.

Ironically since they piled up soil in the parking area there has been more fly tipping on the MOD land! With less cars around there is less chance of the fly tippers being seen, hence more fly tipping

Like the pile of asbestos that appeared in the middle of Tunnel Hill a few weeks ago.

Meeting notes now up on the TAG facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/trailactiongroup

Cool beans 8) Thanks for that Jon

Thanks Jon – comments welcome

Mike

Another update on the TAG site about the meeting that some of the TAG ‘committee’ had with the DIO in the past few days.

https://www.facebook.com/trailactiongroup?fref=ts

It’s a mixed response, but to be fair, it could have been a whole load more negative and at least both sides are now back talking. In the meantime – don’t stop riding but please be mindful that as we are now into night riding that our lights messing up their night vision equipment is a big bugbear so try and avoid all encounters and if you do, cover lights asap, apologise profusely, go somewhere else and above all, don’t be dicks. Would be good that now the door’s open we don’t go and straight away **** it up for ourselves.

Been watching with interest as someone who rides MOD land(Friday woods training ground Colchester Essex)we’ve not had much in the way of problems so far (one area fenced off due to local kids on motorcrossers)but we’ve got both battalions of the paras back in base now that afghan has come to an end so think there could be more conflict hope you manage to get thing sorted 🙂

DIO apparently commented “The issues with cyclists especially are the speed of approach”

They obviously haven’t seen me climbing up Tunnel Hill!!! Seriously though, I can’t see how cyclists are any more of a problem than the multitude of dogs running around off the lead etc. The MOD think that they can get cyclists banned via the vague wording of the existing bylaws which is why they are focusing on bikes.

“The issues with cyclists especially are the speed of approach”

**** me, its taken them some time to come up with that as their answer, after it turns out they couldn’t actually figure out a reason themselves

Interesting that the MOD have cited the modernisation of the Army as one of the reasons behind the need to restrict bike access to training land. http://www.army.mod.uk/documents/general/Army2020_brochure.pdf

Reading the bumf I’m glad to see that for a 21st Century army they’re keeping the cavalry regiments 8) incredible that they’ve currently got more horses (501) than they have tanks (334) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-22951548