Hi all,

I have had no end of knee pain while cycling for several years and this has stopped me getting out for the last year or so. Strangely I am able to comfortably run long distances and perform other activities without any problems.

I am getting desperate now to find a way to cycle comfortably!

Has anyone had their bike position fitted at CycleFit in Covent Gardens, London or at one of the Bike Science centres such as the one at Bristol?

Would you recommend them? Is it worth the money? I am pretty sure it will be a step in the right direction for me but am curious to hear the STW experiences

Thanks in advance!

DanW

Probably best asking on a roadie forum as position us not so critical on a MTB, compared to a road bike where you are sitting in the same position for a while.
As long as you go with a well recognised fitter, it can’t do any harm I suppose. Sometimes they take some of the money you paid off a bike if you buy one so it could be combined with a new bike!

Have you experimented with pedals/cleat angles and saddle height yet? Those are the most common causes of knee pain.

I popped into the place at covent garden about this but wasn’t overly inspired. Instead I went to see mike veal at bikedynamic. Much more switched on. Expensive but value for money over all. Sorted my knee tracking. Now feels like I’ve got a couple of extra gears on the bike.

I have experimented with every bike fit option under the sun over time but not had any satisfactory results re my knee pain. Without knowing the biomechanical aims of a good fit it is very hard to sort it by myself. I’ve tried all the anecdotal fitting rules but had no luck.

Onzadog, what was it that didn’t fill you with confidence at CycleFit?

I’d be interested to know if anyone has experience with BikeScience like the one in Bristol since it is closer to me…

Go to a running shop and get fitted up for orthopedic insoles or buy some esoles footbeds.Had knee surgery already and they have helped no end with my knee (I have scarily flat feet)-expensive when you’ve got 5 pairs of cycling shoes tho!

the specialized body geometry fitters are very good (as are the footbeds to correct varus valgus angles)
i used a guy who’s now at sigma in kingston but there are BG centers around the country.

I have done that Rorschach (company that supply the Welsh Rugby team and Welsh athletics) but have been throughly unsatisfied! One year and around 7 different insoles from the same well respected company without any benefits.

I am one of the minority that isn’t easily catered for by clinical assessments following a set protocol (as in virtually all comercial biomechanical assessments like insole fitting). My worry is that going to one of these bike fits will be similar.

What I really need is someone that thoroughly understands the underlying biomechanical priniciples of a good fit and can deviate from a fitting protocol by using their brain. I know I sound picky but I just want to get out on my bike without the knee pain! 🙂

DanW,

You absolutely sure its your feet thats the cause and not knee, hip, sacroilliac joint or lumbar issues or even an anatomocal short leg which is causing the problem?

Problems can come down as well as go up the kniematic chain.

I went and had a chat with the guy at BikeScience in Bristol the other week. Being off the scale, I want a fit session so I know what I should be looking at when I do go for a custom bike – and yes, a dark side one too. He was very good and setting up for another cyclist to do to the full analysis, which I believe is 3D so covers all movement.
Regardless of all of this, KamiKirk is right – this might come from many other areas other than your knee or foot. Nothing you have mentioned tells me you have seen (for example), a physio who has a particular focus on cyclists. This might pay off better than a fit session.

Can’t help you with a direct referral, but I too would recommend a sports physio that is interested nay obsessed with cycling. There are a couple here in Canberra that do bike fits…so there must be some in the UK. That way you can get the check out and the bike fit in one place from someone that knows the issues and how to resolve them.

Not completely on track with the Op, but Andy Pruitts Complete Medical Guide For Cyclists helped me a lot… but if your into the degree of detail it sounds like, you may have already seen a copy…

HTH

You can fit yourself to a bike using a video camera with a tripod and a good bikefit guide. If your knees are troublesome you shOuld pay particular attention to cleat position, saddle height and fore/ aft position. Assuming the bikes the correct size of course. Keep in mind though a change of position will feel alien at first and can take some time for your body to adjust and likewise your knees may take quite a bit longer if there other issues going on as a result of riding in a poor position. You sound like strengthening exercises outside of your cycling would also be beneficial. Good luck 😉

Hi Dan,

I just happened to be in London but without my bike so I went to have a chat with them to see if they could help with my issues. They were happy enough to talk about my road bike but it felt like a sudden change in attitude when I mentioned the mountain bike. I guess you’ve done a bit of research on your problems already like I did. I’d read Andy Puritt’s book and some other articles, experimented with internal and external wedges and picked the brains of my podiatrist. However, it felt with cyclefit, that they were talking at a level lower than my existing understanding of the issues. Maybe I had just ended up speaking with the “saturday staff” but either way, it put me off dropping and sort of amount of money with them. In contrast, when I spoke to Mike Veal on the phone, it was completely different. Either he talks tech to everyone or he quickly picked up on where I was. We discussed what I already knew and theorised and he move the conversation on from there.

When I went to see him, we set the road bike up using formula as guidance rather than targets and comfort was always the deciding factor. He made useful observations such as my leg length inequality and where the inequality was. The best bit and what I think has really helped was the knee tracking. Most corrections focus on the rear of the foot which suits most activities but cycling is a forefoot activity, that’s why my podiatrist left cycling well alone. Anyway, what really sold me on Mike was that we spend ages playing with internal and external wedges and then, when we settled on what was comfortable and tracked straightest, he then measured the angle of my feet which confirmed our findings rather than starting with the measurements and working from there. Not the quickest way but it was the most reassuring as I’d been able to feel what it was like either side of “correct”. The other thing I really liked about Mike was that he was more than happy to deal with someone who’d done their research and knew a bit and to bounce ideas back and fourth. Some people in that situation seem to get a bit protective of their skill or position but Mike was really open. I’d happily go back to see him again and I’m suggesting the wife does as well.

If you want to know any more, drop me an email at gmail with the same username.

“no end of knee pain while cycling for several years “
cranks too long?

For the bike fitting there are sites like:
http://www2.bsn.com/cycling/ergobike.html
http://www.frameforum.org/downloads/measurelength.pdf

Mike veals website has lots of info
bikedynamics

I would suggest a biomechanical assessment from either a suitably experienced chiropractor or physio.

It would surely be better to address a problem rather than trying to fix by tweaking your position on the bike?

FWIW after years of pain, I was diagnosed with a shonky sacroilliac joint by a chiropractor.

You can fit yourself to a bike using a video camera with a tripod and a good bikefit guide.

you can do this. or you can get a trained professional to do it, they know exactly what they are looking for.
my best cycling purchases i ever made were a proper bike fit, a physio session and a pair of BG footbeds. all the bling is useless if you can’t ride pain free.

Thanks everyone,

TooTall- good to know you were happy in BikeScience!

Macavity- I have 170, 172.5 and 175mm cranks that I have experimented with over the last four years or so. Thanks, for the links.

All who suggest chiropractors, physios, books, strengthening exercises etc- I should explain that I am doing a PhD in biomechanics (assessing patients pre and post various lower limb surgeries) and have regular contact (formally and informally) with a host of surgeons, physios and so on who have helped me understand my own biomechanical irregularities. I am more than aware that knee pain does not necessarily originate from the knee and could reel off of list of potential issues with my lower limbs that need to be taken into consideration.

What I need is someone who has a detailed knowledge of how these irregularities feed into cycling kinematics and kinetics. With so many conflicting arguements published in cycling biomechanics and with so many interrelated variables it certainly isn’t easy- otherwise I would have sorted myself by now! 🙂 Someone like Mike Veal seems like the type of guy I am after by all accounts 🙂

Onzadog- This sounds exactly like the approach I am looking for! I’ll drop you an email shortly. Thanks!

Apologies for this thread turning so detailed and whingy!!!!

Might be of interest:
http://bikefitkit.com/
http://www.lookcycle.com/en/uk/look-cycle/technologies/techno-keo-fit.html

I’ll probably do the 3D fit at BikeScience in the next couple of weeks, trying to shake off a back injury first though otherwise I reckon it might screw the fitting up. I’ve previously been a bit sceptical as when I was younger and training/racing a lot I just did the basics to get my position right and never had any issues (even swapping between 4 or 5 bikes). Now I’m older though I’m starting to notice niggling knee pain etc. and although I’ve changed a few things I’ve not fixed it yet so figure a bike fit will give me piece of mind if anything. Also hoping I can get a comfy position sorted on a traditional geometry road bike as that gives me a lot more options for my next purchase (currently riding a Spesh Roubaix).

Convetional wisdom (or the must never be questioned, just do it bike dogma)is that the ball of the foot must be over the pedal axle.
Why?
http://www.perfectcondition.ltd.uk/Articles/Pedalling/LFC%20ideas/LFC%20Notes.htm

Thanks to everyone for the extra links!

DanW, would you mind dropping me an email away from here ? would like to ask you a biomechanics question !
email is andy_j_whiting at hotmail.com

Dan,I’ve recently bought a roadbike and as I get knee pain when I rack up big miles on my mountainbike I’ve been looking for a good bike-fit service.
This fella keeps cropping up on the roadie sites I’ve been looking at; http://www.cadencesport.co.uk/bikefit.php
I’m going to get myself booked in for a fitting,HTH

Just a quick update,

Following OnzaDog’s recommendations I saw Mike at Bikedynamics. Very very happy! As I said before I am a medical engineer so biomechanics is what I do day in day out- the service Mike offers is a real cut above the rest in my opinion and well worth the visit (and I have thoroughly researched all of the other fitting options out there).

I don’t want to write to much on a forum but if anyone would like to know any more just drop me an email (sk8erdj50 [at] hotmail [dot] com).

Thanks again, DanW