I started on a new commuting route since moving house a few weeks ago and I've been genuinely amazed by the number of cyclists on the road who can't tell the difference between red and green lights. On Tuesday morning as I waited at the junction of Byres Road and University Avenue in Glasgow for the lights to change, I counted five riders jump the lights either when the pedestrain crossing light had changed to green or simply went through the lights at red into oncoming traffic. Riding home down Bath Street in the evening, I'm regularly passed by riders who again feel that it is ok to jump the lights irrespective of whether there are cars coming in from side roads or pedestrians crossing the road.

Am I missing something here? Is it really such a big surprise when we as a group get hassle from car drivers who get irritated by this behaviour? Or pedestrians who have a cyclist pass in front of them at speed when they mistakenly think it is safe to cross the road. Does anyone else get annoyed by this or do you blindly accept that it is ok to adhere to the bits of the Highway Code that you like but ignore the inconvenient bits that mean your journey to work or college might take a little bit longer?

I can almost feel myself becoming a Daily Mail reader at this rate! 😆

As for ejits riding at night without lights and the fashion for riding a fixie sans brakes, they are definitely up there on the chopper scale too.
😯

Cheers

Sanny

I wait at the lights, then catch them up & pass them, which does annoy them when I'm on my Brompton!

it's the same in oxford. it's no wonder joe public thinks we're all idiots.

sadly all it means is that they then treat us as such, with a complete lack of respect or consideration, while driving around in over a tonne of metal. now who's worse off?

Ah Cheesyfeet, there is indeed something joyous about that feeling as you pass them!

I'd be interested to hear how we as a group of cyclists should be entitled to demand respect on the roads when the behaviour of some (not all) actively discourages it. If respect is earned then what are we doing to earn it? Has anyone ever pointed out to another cyclist that jumping lights etc is an invitation for hassle for the rest of us. I have to admit to having done it a couple of times and it's fair to say that my use of language was both creative and a bit fruity! I think I may have even invented a new sweary word! 😀

There are plenty of pedestrians crossing the road away from crossings and motorists breaking the speed limit. We get hassle from motorists because they believe that their licence gives them a right to the road to which we are not entitled. *&^% them!

i agree with you sanny.

no brakes is a ridiculous idea. they dont slow you down, they are a safety device.

NO fixe rider, you cannot stop as quickly as i can, no matter how hard you skid, grow up

riders with no brakes are the same as riders who dont wear a helmet cause its "not cool" in my mind.

how can anyone expect vehicles on the road to respect us, as a group, when we dont respect the rules that are thier for the safety of other people.

hang em, the lot of em,

can we put the severed heads of red light runners on skewers on top of traffic lights as a warning to others?

I don't see that many cyclists jump red lights, could be because my commute is mostly on a cycle path though I suppose.

Certainly see way more cars jump red lights.

I'm retarded. Red lights? What are they for then? They don't apply when I'm cycling. Why? Bacause I can and it annoys people who KNOW I'm getting away with it. Don't like it? Blow it out your ass. 😈

I don't jump lights, but I think it's several orders of magnitude less serious than poor driver behaviour. As the road accident statistics prove.

mtbfix

Good point, well made but surely if we don't get our house in order, we continue to perpetrate the notion that all cyclists are d*ckheads who have no regard for themselves or others?

Respect is not something we are entitled to. We only get it when we earn it. There will of course always be tossers who live in their own world but that doesn't mean our behaviour should be equally as poor, does it?

As for no brakes, the prize for a complete lack of common sense has got to go to the no brakes / no back pedal brake BMXer I saw recently in the West End. Well done there, fella! That must surely get an honorable Darwin Award?

Peter

If the special helmet fits….. 😉

Ha! Ha!

Cheers

Sanny

I commute in Glasgow city centre and often anticipate green lights (purely because I'm familiar enough with the sequences on my route) by a second or two, and will occasionally turn right at a busy crossroads just as the green man goes to red, a few seconds ahead of the green light, all provided there are no pedestrians.

I certainly won't go through a red light into a junction if there's traffic at green from another direction, that's just common sense.

However, I wouldn't point out someone else's shitty cycling because I'm not the boss of cycling and don't want to come off as sanctimonious, which I think you would no matter how you phrased it. People on bikes are not a single homogenous group and I don't think we should be considered as such.

You can expect or demand 'respect' from drivers however much you like, all I think we're entitled to is safety and care all round and a cyclist running a red light (however stupidly) is no less entitled to this. Consideration on the road from drivers is not subject to bartering.

what kind of childish attitude is

"im not following the rules, because hes not following them either"

"miss, miss, he pulled my haiiirrr"

Sanny, I feel that by choosing to deliver your message on this forum, you are preaching to a very small, very select group of cyclists, many of whom are responsible, and the rest of whom won't give a sh!t regardless (I veer between the two categories depending on how pointless said traffic control measures are when applied to a bloke on a bicycle).

What you're ignoring is that measures to control cars are there for very specific reasons – i.e. that when people are inside a two-tonne metal box, they tend not to be that aware of what's going on around them, and they also have the potential to cause death and destruction with little to no harm to themselves.

Instead of bending the knee to people who apply a simplistic, absolutist argument to all vehicles, regardless of whether they have 250 hp or 0.5, how about looking at ways in which responsible cycling can be promoted, and maybe even lure people out of their cars with the promise of journeys that are as free as possible from pointless interference, and as a consequence, nearly as quick and effortless?

Traffic lights were designed to control 1 tonne lumps of metal, which by their nature demand rigidly defined safety procedures. That's why we have driving tests.

If were walking along a road, do you stop for red lights before passing on? No. So what if you were riding a scateboard or a scooter – what then?

I don't do it with complete impunity, and stop more often than not, but if it's safer to do so, or it compromises no one else, then I'll jump lights.

I see it no differently to walking across a road on a standing red man.

– I suppose Sanny, you always wait for the little green man before you cross the road?

:oops:I'll go through red lights (slowly) after checking nothing's coming and I'm not going to alarm any pedestrians. It gets me where I'm going faster. If someone wants to wait at the red light then catch and pass me, fine, I'm probably pottering along trying not to get sweaty. Doesn't mean I want to waste time at red lights only to have a swathe of inconsiderate drivers up my arse as soon as they go green.

And anyway, everyone runs red lights and goes on the kerb sometimes (even you, Sanny), it's how you do it that's the real issue here. Not that that makes any difference to the Daily Mail Bikes Are Evil campaign.

I agree that running lights at speed on a brakeless fixie annoys people and puts yourself and others at unnecessary risk, but that's obvious, and there's other far greater risks out there.

Also, I've never once driven or cycled along great western road without the new speed sign not going above 30, a tonne and a half of metal is far more dangerous than any bike.

you are preaching to a very small, very select group of cyclists, many of whom are responsible, and the rest of whom won't give a sh!t regardless (I veer between the two categories depending on how pointless said traffic control measures are when applied to a bloke on a bicycle).

LOL!
😀

Theres bound to be conflict when the number of cyclists increases so quickly, especially in london. I think its just too many people who've bought bikes and haven't ridden one since being a child. They just take the quickest most obvious route without any thought, be it on the pavement, through parks, through red lights etc..

Liverpool St station is particularly bad, the police patrol there regularly.

i don't think the problem will get solved until the roads are modified with more obvious cycle friendly measures that aren't purely aimed at people who cycle at 5-10mph and like stopping every time theres a side-road or junction

2tyred

While we may not like to be considered as a single group, I think it is fair to say that broadly we are. If we take those who cycle out of the equation, what do you think the general impression of cycling and cyclists is by other road users? Lack of common sense, don't have bells, ignore the Highway Code? The problem with negative perceptions and prejudices about any road user is that it only takes a few of us to perpetuate them. The majority of cyclists on the road may indeed show good judgement and common sense but in my experience of commuting of late, I would reckon that between a third and a half of the cyclists I see don't. That's pretty poor by anyones book.

Whether we like it or not, the actions of individuals can have either a positive or negative effect on other road users perceptions. We may think that consideration from other users is something we are entitled to yet if we don't show it ourselves, why should anyone else? The law is there to protect all road users, not just cyclists but if we chose to pick and chose, should we be surprised if other user groups do the same and regard us with disinterest or worse, don't look out for us as a vulnerable user group?

If I see a cyclist riding at night without lights on the road, I immediately think "Tw*t!" From there, it is a very small step for the public to lose any sympathy for them should they be involved in a Road Traffic Accident with another vehicle. "Sorry mate, I didn't see you" would be the likely response. That may not seem fair but if we chose to ignore common sense, where does it lead us?

Cheers

Sanny

The ones I see who run red lights are invariably on posh, expensive bikes I'm an experienced cyclist and I know better ****

All pedestrians are jaywalking retards who dash across in front of bikes, never look, never wait for the green man and kill dogs.

They should obviously all be banned, be fined by more police, made to take their walking proficiency test and take out walking licenses.

I must admit to being pretty peed off whilst in Glasgow recently. I was having my morning tab and coffee outside my hotel and watched several cyclists run a pedestrian crossing, weaving in and out of people crossing the road.

The peds were crossing on a green man and had to stop to allow riders to pass – just not on – simple as.

The ones I see running red lights in the worst possible way (bimbling slowly through junctions while paying no attention to the roads either side of them) are usually riding creaky Apollo full sussers with drivetrains that sound like a herd of mice, and a tin of Special Brew tucked in the bottle cage.

I'm sure they're all reading this thread avidly. 😉

Jumping red lights according to the BBC might help save your life?

From the article.

This means that if the lorry turns left, the driver cannot see the cyclist as the vehicle cuts across the bike's path.

The report said that male cyclists are generally quicker getting away from a red light – or, indeed, jump red lights – and so get out of the danger area.

Traffic lights are great (Gets breath back…)

I just jump off the bike and jog with the bike till I'm on the safe and legal side etc if I'm late but 99% I'll wait.

Had a van driver open his window at lights and ask me how come I was going through the red lights. I said I wasn't colour blind-ironic really to the title of the OP 😈

Yeah, or if it's indicating left just stay behind it.

I commute to Glasgow too, through newton mearns and shawlands. I don't see that many other bike commuters but of the ones I do see at least 75% jump red lights. I don't get it, but I do get great joy at passing them. It really doesn't do us any favours.

For all those who say that 'but car drivers break the rules all the time', it doesn't make it right that cyclist do the same.

In my experience its not folk on 'posh, expensive bikes', whatever a posh bike is but slow folk who need to make up all the time they can.

I just find it a bit childish really.

The ones I see who run red lights are invariably on posh, expensive bikes I'm an experienced cyclist and I know better ****

CONGRATULATIONS!

You have won the STW award for typing the biggest load of drivel this year!

Respect is not something we are entitled to. We only get it when we earn it.

I don't need respect, just tolerance. A driver's need to get somewhere a few seconds earlier doesn't trump my right to live. Cyclists are not a homogeneous group, each one is different.

I was down in London earlier in the week and it seems to be pretty much mandatory to jump the lights there. I didn't see one cyclist actually stop for a red light and most of them didn't even seem to look before they wandered through.

“Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.” Douglas Bader

i routinely distribute my opinion of others' RLJing (from the bike or the car) in a polite but sometimes rather loud fashion.

i wish more people did this – it might change things a little

Cheers Sanny, I completely agree with the point you're making – the consequences of stupidity aren't always limited to the rider displaying it – but I don't think we should accept this being the case.

I certainly don't think of all motorists as a single group but they've more in common with each other than all cyclists, as in addition to having acquired a car, they've also all (hopefully) passed a driving test and paid the required taxes to use their vehicles on the road. Other than having acquired a bike and the ability to ride it, what do you have in common with any other cyclist? This notion that we're a single group is a dangerous one, IMO as it allows the perception of one to cloud the perception of another.

Irrespective of this, a person on a bike deserves no less care and attention on the road from a motorist, regardless of his or her attitude to traffic lights. Two wrongs don't make a right.

(fixed gear rider here, but with you on the brakeless fixies, by the way!)

CONGRATULATIONS!

You have won the STW award for typing the biggest load of drivel this year!

Hit a nerve did he PP? ;0)

Jumping redlights is good for bike safety?! Just ripped this out of a BBC article about Bike fatalities and women riders.

In 2007, an internal report for Transport for London concluded women cyclists are far more likely to be killed by lorries because, unlike men, they tend to obey red lights and wait at junctions in the driver's blind spot.

This means that if the lorry turns left, the driver cannot see the cyclist as the vehicle cuts across the bike's path.

The report said that male cyclists are generally quicker getting away from a red light – or, indeed, jump red lights – and so get out of the danger area.

As for no brakes, the prize for a complete lack of common sense has got to go to the no brakes / no back pedal brake BMXer I saw recently in the West End. Well done there, fella! That must surely get an honorable Darwin Award?

Riding brakeless is quite common in BMX circles these days and you can buy brakeless frames from a number of major manufacturers, or even a complete brakeless bike.

Of course, everyone who slings a leg over one is dead seconds later, but the powerful BMX industry just hushes that part up. 😉

zaskar – Member

Traffic lights are great (Gets breath back…)

I just jump off the bike and jog with the bike till I'm on the safe and legal side etc if I'm late but 99% I'll wait.

Had a van driver open his window at lights and ask me how come I was going through the red lights. I said I wasn't colour blind-ironic really to the title of the OP

I meant how I was wasn't going through the lights! I was wasn't going through the lights!

Not going through them! I try to be an ambassador when cycling anyway.
I get other cyclists telling me off for my bell use for walkers.

Doh!

Always wait the red light as it's legal and not worth getting runover!

I'm always being overtaken by cyclists at lights who jump them. Catch them usually.

Sorry for the typo in case people got miffed!

I agree, they have already killed four dogs this morning, allegedly.

On the other hand are they showing how the law is unnecessary in this instance and needs to be changed?

For example, Boris Johnson has already announced how London cyclists are allowed to turn left on a red light provided it's safe to do so and there is another change in the offing whereby cyclists will be allowed to cycle 'the wrong way' down (or up) one way streets.

Now why have they agreed to those changes and who drove (pun unintended) that law forward? Was it those cyclists who were sitting waiting at red lights or was it the jumpers?

GEE THANKS PP!

What a cock

I used to jump the reds without fail, not in an eyes closed-go kinda way but more stop look and go, until i got busted by the cops. Got a ticking off and it made me feel like a 12 year old, but it did make me change my ways. Can't say i'm a perfect saint but i do stop a reds 95% of the time but there are some quiet junctions that i will go through on the green man.

Sanny – I'm also a Glasgow commuter your point about fixies / SS is spot on there does seem to more and more of them about, quite a few are bike couriers but most seem to be skinny jean, beani wearing studensts out posing on thier latest life style accessory. IMO of course.