I’m considering a custom road bike frame. I’m interested in the experiences of others – what was your reason for getting one, how did you decide what you wanted, what was the process with the framebuider to work through ideas and options, were you happy with the result?

Frame will be Ti, I have a builder in mind that’s non-UK but uses UK agents to help with design, fitting etc. What should I expect from them?

No personal experience…. but a friend bought a custom Italian road frame through a UK agent – it took 8months longer than expected (around 14months in total), wasn’t to the spec he’d asked for (different dropouts, although size and geo was correct) and was a v stressful procedure and now wishes he’d gone with a UK builder. The builder kept telling the agent it had been posted but wouldn’t provide tracking details.

The only reason he’d gone with the Italian frame was the badge.

My thoughts on this (I have 2 custom steel Italian frames)

There are loads of new builders out there who have very fancy paint jobs and charge a fortune for their frames but have very little experience and feedback from experienced racers on how their bikes ride, i don’t want the 5th or 50th frame out the workshop I want the 5000th, picking a fancy tube set and welding it together doesn’t gaurantee a nice riding bike.

If I was after Ti I would bypass the Russian/Chinese built but designed in U.K. And wait until I could afford a Passone or similar. Actually I wouldn’t bother with TI but get a tube to tube custom carbon from the likes of Sarto. I’m amazed people covet a pinarello monstrosity popped out of a mould over something truly bespoke and built to how they want the bike to ride.
If I didn’t have the budget for something fancy then something uk built by enigma or rourke in steel would be my choice.

Contrasting view:
What do you hope to get from a custom frame that you can’t get in an off the peg frame?

Unless you are a very funny size / shape, I don’t really see the point in getting a custom frame.

I had a non-custom but built to order steel frame from a low volume (and well established) UK frame maker that was just terrible – seat tube had to be re-reamed as no seat post would fit in, the paint was soft and the geometry was just weird – it kept trying to steer me into a hedge!

In contrast my mass produced Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra is the nicest steel frame I’ve ridden and my Colnago Superrisimo is the second. My very mass produced Canyon is probably even nicer than those two! 🙂

Having said all that, I have a friend who has a custom Burls and he loves his.

Saw a Burls frame the other day. Very nice it was. Was quite surprised the price was about the same as an off the peg Ti frame. Can see the appeal of having one built to your exact requirements, fit and fitments. If I was going Ti I’d probably go this route.

What do you hope to get from a custom frame that you can’t get in an off the peg frame?

Unless you are a very funny size / shape, I don’t really see the point in getting a custom frame.

This. Unless you have,

a) Very unusual body dimensions, or
b) Very specific essential requirements that current off the peg frames and bikes simply do not offer, or
c) It’s a once in a lifetime purchase from one of the great framebuilders, e.g. Pegoretti, Seven, Richard Sachs etc., and nothing else is an acceptable substitute,

then it makes litle sense to go down the custom route. As some of the posts above and elsewhere on this forum show, there is a significant risk of disappointment because something is not done how you wanted or specified (or failed to specify), or the finished article just isn’t what you expected it to be in how it rides or looks.

If you can identify an off the peg frame or bike that gives you a good fit, the ride and handling you want, and all or even most of what you are looking for in terms of things like braze-ons etc., and you have the opportunity to test ride one as well, then I think you would be taking an unnecessary and expensive risk in trying to get a custom frame that would even match it. It’s probably even less likely that a custom frame would improve on it.

I have two Sevens – an Axiom SL and an Evergreen SL. The Axiom is 14 years old and is my go to bike. I have ridden tens of thousands of kms on it. I have much more contemporary bikes but my Seven is my favourite. Not the lightest but the ride is sublime and I’m just as quick on it.

The one point I would echo from above is the specification. Refine. Check. Refine. Check. Multiple times

I’ve had two “custom” Ti MTB frames, so maybe a wee bit relevant.

The first was a 29er from Burls. I decided the geometry I wanted and also things like cable runs, bottle cage mounts. Justin checked that nothing was going to be a problem and dealt with the manufacturer. The frame arrived a few weeks later and was pretty much spot-on. I rode that for a while but then decided I wanted something Plus-compatible and it would have cost more to try to convert it than it was worth. That frame is now used by Dave Barter and he reckons it’s the best MTB he’s ever ridden.

Going for Plus, I hooked up with Brant and his Pact project. The design of this was a bit more complicated due to Boost, tyre widths, chainring sizes etc. Brant was great as he modelled it all beforehand to check it would work in the flesh and gave me loads of feedback on other points. I guess we exchanged something in the region of 50 emails. Again, the frame arrived a few weeks later and is now carrying me round all my bikepacking trips, sometimes B+, sometimes 29er, sometimes with Rebas sometimes with rigid forks.

Ini both cases, I got something that was ideal for my purposes, tuned to my geometry requirements, had all the features I wanted and cost less than something like a production-run Salsa El Mariachi.

I’d do the same again.

I’ve been designing and having my own custom-built titanium frames from China for 10+ years – longer than some of the UK ‘custom’ people have been in business, and seen quite a few go in that time. It’s not really a sustainable business model / easy to copy so if you think a UK dealer gives you comfort with a ‘warranty’ I’d be careful from buying from a 1-man operation. For me it’s about getting the detail right – it’s very easy to design a cheap ti frame that is prone to fatigue failure and this is often a failing of bigger brands. I avoid plate drop-outs, crimped and manipulated tubes. The more clear you can be in terms of the details, then the less likely you’ll be disappointed. Geometry plays a big factor – it’s better to find a mainstream bike that you like the way it rides and ask for something similar than simply giving someone a blank sheet of paper. Better to be conservative than radical unless you really know what you’re doing.

I’m amazed people covet a pinarello monstrosity popped out of a mould over something truly bespoke and built to how they want the bike to ride.

The Taiwanese Pinarello is probably much better engineered than some old man welding hunks of iron together based on “experience”. You’d have to have very specific requests to not find a mass-produced frame that fits the bill.

Saying that, some people want something custom because it is unique. I have two custom steel frames and am looking at a third. I also have Taiwanese mass produced frames that are fantastic. Buy with the heart unless you are a racer, bikes are an emotional purchase for most of us.

The Taiwanese Pinarello is probably much better engineered than some old man welding hunks of iron together based on “experience”. You’d have to have very specific requests to not find a mass-produced frame that fits the bill.

I’m comparing those to a tube to tube joined frame from the likes of Sarto. They build for a lot of high end manufacturers but use their own tubes not Deda for their brand. Casati do something similar (I have been to the workshop to see how they build tube to tube custom carbon)

As for very specific requests? I know the dimensions I need and most off the peg frames have huge gaps in sizing and the head tubes are always too tall for me or there is a 1.5cm gap from the ETT I want. My Pegoretti is not custom but that’s because they are built in 1cm increments.

What’s wrong with an old man with lots of experience? You had 2 frames built by an old hand. Would rather that than an upstart charging twice the price but with fancy paint. Racer or not it’s about the ride quality and knowing how to achieve that. My other custom frame fails in that department it’s just o.k. not fantastic (a chesini in Columbus spirit)

Big difference comparing a traditionally-built steel frame to that in carbon or titanium – the latter two are far more ‘process’ dependent and need to be done in a clean environment. Small-scale operators also have problems with skills – fine if you know the reputation of the guy building your frame, but not the work-experience bloke. Places like Xiamen have more qualified titanium welders than the whole of the UK – if you’re a decent ti welder in the UK, you’d make more money welding bits for Lightnings that building bike frames

Fair point about about comparing with custom carbon but I’d still wager a top end Giant/Pinarello/Cervelo is the better frame. Monocoques are so much more efficient and can be manipulated much better than tube-tube construction. If the top tube is the wrong size put on a different stem, the handling isn’t affected like with an MTB.

My most recent track frame was only Richard’s 21st build, an upstart compared to most but that doesn’t take away from the amazing craftsmanship and attention to detail. Saying that, a Dolan DF4 would be cheaper and faster. You can’t logic custom, its for tarts like me.

Well, it’s one of those once in a lifetime things. Very well established and respected Italian builder with lots of experience.

They don’t do off the peg.

I’m open to suggestions though! I’ll have a look at some of the names mentioned. Thanks for the feedback so far.

@beej Enjoy the process!

I have a custom steel Roberts road bike and the wife has two of them. Sadly Roberts are gone now but it was a thorough process with measuring, discussion about use etc. The last one bought was one of the wife’s and that did take ages to come. Mine was a special purchase the wife just wanted the best and at the time there was less choice in ladies road bikes. I really love my one, it’s great to have a fairly unique bit of kit

I have an Andy Thompson 853 frame and forks which was one of the last 2 frames that he made (herself has the other). The process was quite simple, we did a fair bit of talking, he recommended a solution, I said yes. He made it. I still ride it. It has Salmon guards with standard drop brakes. It is probably the best handling road bike I’ve had/ got. It rides like my Merlin CR6/4 at a quarter of the price as well. The only annoying thing is that Andy had a thing about cutting the steerer tube as short as it needed to be, with no allowance for adjustment.

I always liked the look of Baum, but I really don’t like their “you need us more than we need you” attitude they seem to convey online.

If I was getting a custom road bike now (and it would only be for the once in a lifetime thing, I have no real issue with off the peg geometry) it would be an English. Not ti, or Italian (or technically English), but IMO his frames are lovely!

My Pegoretti took something like a year to materialise. To be fair, the guy did have leukemia. A veritable trigger’s broom, it’s still my main bike – I think it’s ten years old this year. I doubt I’d buy one at today’s prices (more or less double the 2007 price) but although the notion of a bike for life is often laughable, I think this one’s a keeper.

My pegoretti broke last year 😥
it was built in 2005 around when he was diagnosed with lymphoma so had a good innings, sent it back and he repaired it F.O.C and i paid for a new fork and paint job and i hope to get another decade of enjoyment out of it.
would order a new one straight away if anything happened to this one.

is your potential purchase a Rewel, Crisp, Legend or Passoni? or something else?
there are a few other Ti builders out there who make for other brands too.

I had a custom road frame (from Bruce Everett in Kendal) in the mid 1980s. At the time he pretty well built every bike he sold in his shop. By the mid 1990s when he made a custom frame for my wife he reckoned that unless you had something very specific then the frames from the Far East were better value.

The frame was still good 25 years later.

What happened to your Pego, Mr Smith? The seat stay rusted through at the bottom on mine, probably due to a blocked vent / drain. Had the option to send it back to Caldonazzo but in the end they sent a mitred tube to a local builder in Bilbao and he cut the old one out and replace it. Painted to match the colour (no wacky design on seat stays) and lacquered over with strict instructions to leave the chainsuck marks and stone chips as far as possible.

Did you get the Falz fork? Any different from the Ouzo? Thinking of doing the same.

Potentially Legend.

njee… a few nice English here…

https://cyclingtips.com/2015/09/bikes-of-the-bunch-english-cycles-team-issue-disc/
https://cyclingtips.com/2017/02/bikes-of-the-bunch-english-cycles-custom-v3-road-bike/

Quite a few nice customs in their regular Bikes of the Bunch features. Rather like this Safforn myself…

Bikes of the Bunch: Saffron Frameworks bespoke stainless steel

a friend has a Legend built Comtat (by Bertoletti) in carbon and i rode a Ti built demo bike a few years back, i dont think you will end up with a lemon. 😆
at least it’s actually built by them not like a lot of italian bikes that are farmed out to the likes of Sarto and Barco. nothing wrong with those builders, if anything i would go straight to them rather than have a different name on the downtube.

personally i’m not into Ti but if i was it would have to be top end butted tubes not plain gauge.

my frame had a small crack on the seat stay/seat tube joint, fatigue not rust as it has had framesaver from day 1. i went with the Falz and was a bit worried it would compromise the ride over the ouzo but its as good if not better. it wasn’t cheap though!

I nearly bought a titanium Bertoletti a few years ago – he then formed Legend, got all hipster-groovy and more than doubled his prices! I have a titanium Colnago though – lovely handling.

If I was after Ti I would bypass the Russian/Chinese built but designed in U.K. And wait until I could afford a Passone or similar. Actually I wouldn’t bother with TI but get a tube to tube custom carbon from the likes of Sarto. I’m amazed people covet a pinarello monstrosity popped out of a mould over something truly bespoke and built to how they want the bike to ride.

You sir are a true connoisseur and aesthete but that comes as no surprise.

My brother has two full custom frames by Indy Fab, one ti and one steel and I’ve also gone the route of full custom before but it was a mountain bike (a full custom Nicolai, including full geometry).

My one word of caution is to check, check again and check a third time. Leave nothing to assumption, leave nothing to interpretation. Fully expect that even having done this, there will be something about the finished product you receive that differs in some way from your original spec. This is not guaranteed but it’s happened on all three full custom frames that my brother and I have had between us. The more remote the manufacturer is, the more likely that this will happen as well.

That said, we have been thrilled with all three frames. The fact that they aren’t 100% perfect sort of adds to their charm in a weird kind of ‘post purchase rationalisation’ sort of way.

I’ve got a Crisp (after asking advice for frame builders on here). It is amazing! I’ve done thousands of miles on it, it just ‘fits’. Obviously everything is personal and I didn’t go too far away from anything ‘normal’ but it does do everything I wanted and more. Looks fantastic and you really have to look at it if you want to see how it is ‘special’ in comparison to anything else.

It certainly raise a few questions when people look at it, although I did have to wait a rather long time for it, 18 months!

Yes, it cost me a lot of money but I’d just split up from the ex Mrs so I went mental and got myself a ‘gift’ 😀

I have a Burls ti frame in the shed. Process wasn’t ideal, and time to arrive was almost double quoted time.
Frame was damaged in a crash 6 weeks after I got it and Justin wasn’t interested in helping me get it repaired.
It also creaked like a bugger.
I wouldn’t have another.

I have never had much problem finding an off the peg frame that would fit me,but as bikes came and went, I always had ideas about what (for me) would have improved them. Sometimes it would just be a small detail here or there, braze ons, tyre clearance, cable routing, that kind of thing. So over the last few years I planned my perfect frame, and I really liked the idea of it being made in the UK. The planning and chatting through the process with the builder was a big part of it for me,and a very, very enjoyable experience.I have never had a bike fit before,so it was also nice to discover that I am not too much of a mutant when it comes down to the required frame geometry. Now, after more than 5000 mls from that first ride at the start of the year, it’s very much my bike and it only continues to impress.
Oh ,and I got to pick a super duper paint job. 🙂

I nipped into Brian Rourke in Stoke the other day. They have some famous names riding their custom frames, including Jason Kenny, and I was very impressed indeed.

Frame was damaged in a crash 6 weeks after I got it and Justin wasn’t interested in helping me get it repaired.

thats a bit crap.
Dario repaired mine for free even though its 12 years old.
cost me £650 for shipping, snazzy repaint and new fork though.(not that i’m complaining)

Mmm, Passoni and Crisp look nice too. More investigating needed I think.

Let’s be perfectly honest, I’m a completely normal size and shape, pretty flexible and my medium Focus Izalco is a fantastic ride and close to a perfect fit. I use a couple of spacers under the stem and the saddle is pushed back a bit, but nothing too extreme.

Something custom would be a purely emotional purchase.

Guess burls can’t help repair it as he’s not a frame builder and cost of shipping probably makes it uneconomic if it had to back to china and maybe pay duty and vat on its way back into the uk

I’m just guessing mind

Enigma do repairs in ti I think

Are tommasini still building?

Yes they are.

I have a Cherubim that wasnt custom built for me but fits and is lovely. Lots of nice bikes in the second hand market if you know what size you want. Why go custom if you want a 56cm square frame?

Witcomb fixed wheel. Utterly love it and the best road bike I’ve ever had. Nothing special tube wise and lugged / brazed frame but just feels lovely to ride, nice bit of springiness over the rough stuff and goes like a rocket.

I run the customer accounts for Bespoked bike show and know most of the UK builders and a lot from overseas. If I was going ti I would look at Mawis and Wittson for other euro options, they both are really good at ti and understand its qualities and limitations very very well.

Stateside for me though; Potts, Firefly or Mosaic. A well known older US builder said to me once, judge the builder on the quality of their forks, even if you’re not speccing one. This I found interesting, and on balance so far those who make a good fork, their frames are not lacking in quality and tube forming/selection. Oh and Rob English is lovely and he’s the kind of guy aside from the quality you would happily give your hard earned to. Something to consider…

Cheers Tang. It was at Bespoked that I saw the Legends, had a good long chat with the guy from Bike Science. I’ll take a look at your suggestions.