Creatine/Whey Protein - Worth it?

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Creatine/Whey Protein - Worth it?

34 posts & 22 voices | Started 1 year ago by willard | Latest reply from Simon E

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willard - Member

I'm starting to take this cycling stuff a little bit more seriously now I have found that cycling to work and back saves me a fair amount of money each month. I'm also slowly getting fitter, but I keep seeing the various muscle supplements in the sport section of the local Tesco and I keep wondering if they could really help with increasing both strength and stamina when I'm out and about.

So, has anyone used either of the above as part of a training schedule? Do they work? Are they really worth spending the savings on petrol on?

Posted 1 year ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

If you have a decent diet its of no use unless perhaps you are an elite athelete looking for that last fraction of a second.

Posted 1 year ago #
njee20 - Member

There's several schools of thought on this, some argue that creatine in small doses can be beneficial, whilst others say you get all the creatine your body needs through your diet.

Protein can be useful as a recovery product, but I would personally suggest a specific recovery drink with the balance of protein:carbs, rather than straight protein, you don't want to bulk up, which is what most of those supplements are intended to help supermarket fatties do.

Posted 1 year ago #
poppa - Member

You can get everything you need by eating a healthy, balanced diet and it will do you a lot more good overall than taking supplements. Just make sure that you eat a good mix of food. If you want you could always have a milkshake after an intense ride - it's natures recovery drink.

Posted 1 year ago #
Bagstard - Member

I use whey protein to help with my weight training, it is just a convenient way of getting low fat, high quality protein, nothing more.

In the past I have used creatine, but never really noticed much in the way of gains, maybe slightly improved recovery. A major downside is you can put on around five pounds of weight as your muscles fill up with water and you will lose definition.

Posted 1 year ago #
simonfbarnes - Member

Eating real tasty food is nicer

Posted 1 year ago #
Bagstard - Member

Nicer, but not always as convenient.

Posted 1 year ago #
Shandy - Member

I'd be sceptical about Creatine, it really seems to be for bulking up although I'm sure there are specific uses for endurance sport.

Protein supplements are good for a recovery drink if you have been working hard, taking them as a routine can just add calories if you aren't training enough.

If you are getting keen on working on your fitness the biggest difference you can make will be how much you train, and what you do. If you take a more structured approach, set yourself some goals and do a couple of interval/gym/circuits sessions, or just start gradually increasing milage, then you will start to figure out more about diet, recovery and rest as you go along.

Posted 1 year ago #
borwens - Member

How about doin a bit of research rather than asking a random group of people who probably haven't done a great deal of research into the subject, so will only give you their own personal uninformed opinions....

Posted 1 year ago #
willard - Member

How about doin a bit of research rather than asking a random group of people who probably haven't done a great deal of research into the subject, so will only give you their own personal uninformed opinions....

Where's the fun in that?

Seriously though, there's enough breadth and depth of knowledge here on Singletrack that most questions can be answered with a reasonable degree of accuracy.

As far as training goes, I pretty much only run and bike. I'd love to do a lot more weight training, but I have no decent gyms anywhere near me, so I have to make do with some small weights at home for things like curls and squats. Same thing with swimming... Nearest half decent pool is the other side of the next big town from me and getting to it after I finish work is a challenge. So, it's all cycling and running for me.

Posted 1 year ago #
scottyjohn - Member

I had a few mates that were into martial arts, and they used creatine to boost the effectiveness of their training. I believer that it improves the endurance of the muscles, and allows you to train longer / train harder / lift heavier, meaning that the muscle breaks down more and hence increases mass. I think they only used it for short hard training periods though. As someone else said here, also aids recovery too.

Posted 1 year ago #
jacko54321 - Member

How about doin a bit of research rather than asking a random group of people who probably haven't done a great deal of research into the subject, so will only give you their own personal uninformed opinions....

STW knows everything !

tbh unless you are a very serious cyclist that races and strives to be the best in the sport i dont think there is much need for it, i did them for a bit and felt know benifit, i sometimes have a recovery drink when i get to work on the 4th or 5th day of riding to work everyday,

Posted 1 year ago #
Scienceofficer - Member

Yes, Creatine allows you to maximise your training effort, which of course puts a premium on the quality of your diet, since if you're stressing your system more, you need more nutrients, carbs and protein for repair.

As has been said, whey powder is just a convenient way of getting simple, easily metabolised protein. If you're eating properly and not specifically targeting weight training its unlikely you'll need total extra protein, but theres a window after exercise of 20-30 minutes where you system can make use of simple proteins pretty much immediately. Simple, clean, easily metabolised protein of any kind here can mitigate post exercise muscle pain and improve general recovery.

I'd use skimmed milk if I were you. Cheaper and more palatable.

Posted 1 year ago #
highclimber - Member

How about doin a bit of research rather than asking a random group of people who probably haven't done a great deal of research into the subject, so will only give you their own personal uninformed opinions..

We are Omniscient!
We are Omnipotent!
We are Singletrackworld!

Posted 1 year ago #
thisisnotaspoon - Member

Creatine stops my muscles acheing after a long ride.

1g before and 1g afterwards (even if the packetssoemtime say take 3-4 before and after!)

Maybe its a placebo, maybe its not, but seeing as I'm intolerant to ibuprophen and IME it works I'll keep taking it.

I just take protein shakes when I've done some strenuous excercise and don't feel I've eaten enough meet that day e.g. I've had sallad for lunch.

Based on looking in the mirror and general fitness levels I'd say its not quite night and day between the before and after, but I've noticed it and the missus reckons I'm more muscley and I don't winge as much about being hungry/thirsty/achey after a ride.

Posted 1 year ago #
njee20 - Member

What are you actually wanting to get out of exercise then?

If you're running/riding/weight training do you want to bulk up and 'look good'? Or just be able to recover faster and ride more? Or do you want to go faster on the bike? If it's 1 or to a lesser extent 2 then there's probably some merit in taking supplements, if it's 3 then you don't really want to be carrying around unnecessary muscle weight, I'd eat more carefully, consider the odd recovery type drink for after hard exercise, but wouldn't take regular supplements.

Posted 1 year ago #
brassneck - Member

I tried low dose creatine as it was recommended by several sources for veggies (this was when I was actually riding a lot...) - it just gave me the poos, so it might help weight loss I suppose.

Posted 1 year ago #
TooTall - Member

Buy some and see what it does for you. Get it from bulkpowders or myprotein rather than a shop - cheap enough, won't harm you - give it a go rather than listening to this lot.

Posted 1 year ago #
willard - Member

njee20 - Member
What are you actually wanting to get out of exercise then?

If you're running/riding/weight training do you want to bulk up and 'look good'? Or just be able to recover faster and ride more? Or do you want to go faster on the bike? If it's 1 or to a lesser extent 2 then there's probably some merit in taking supplements, if it's 3 then you don't really want to be carrying around unnecessary muscle weight, I'd eat more carefully, consider the odd recovery type drink for after hard exercise, but wouldn't take regular supplements.

The primary aim of the training/commuting/etc is to get my personal fitness up and lose a bit of the excess that sitting on my arse in an office all day has given me. I'd like to drop the lard and/or replace it with a bit more useful muscle, but muscle that is not going to slow me down on the runs that I do (10k is my distance right now, but I am now being tempted by half marathons).

Bulking up for the sake of it is not an option. Whatever I carry has to be useful, so that I can go faster on either the bike or on foot and for longer. Anything I take as a supplement has to have that goal on mind really.

Posted 1 year ago #
Bagstard - Member

If you are looking to lose weight stay away from creatine. Your muscles fill up with water and you will carry extra weight. It goes on easier than it comes off.

Posted 1 year ago #
asdfhjkl - Member

They are called "supplements" for a reason - they are there to supplement an already quality diet. If you're already eating clean, healthy foods and get plenty of protein through meats, fish.etc then maybe it'll help you get in extra calories or whatever.

Whey protein isn't much different to chicken for example, it won't have any magic effect other than help you get more protein in. Creatine might have some benefit relevant to your goals, google it for some more information. Probably better you read it from the experts rather than us

The thing about creating causing water gain is true, but water weight is easily lost. Not a concern at all, unless you're in a sport where you need to meet a weight class. Heck, it varies so much naturally you probably don't even notice.

Posted 1 year ago #
Scienceofficer - Member

The BIG difference between whey protein and chicken is the amount of time your gut has to work on the chicken to get it into a form that's as available as the whey.

Posted 1 year ago #
njee20 - Member

I wouldn't take creatine if you're just aiming to get a bit fitter. Exercise more, take stock of your diet and cut out the crap!

Posted 1 year ago #
DaveGr - Member

I tried creatine three years ago and got cramp on longer rides - I seem to remember googling at the time and finding other's who'd had the same problem.

Whey protein - I sometimes drink it with skimmed milk after a long ride as part of the recovery. I think that people say it's better with water and you should avoid milk but I like it as a milkshake and it provides some quick and easy protein. Having said that a ready made bought product that doesn't have to be kept cold is good when you go away for a day ride. I buy it from Holland and Barratt when it's half price.

Posted 1 year ago #
asdfhjkl - Member

True, Scienceofficer, but that's not always desirable.

Posted 1 year ago #
simonfbarnes - Member

The BIG difference between whey protein and chicken is the amount of time your gut has to work on the chicken to get it into a form that's as available

so eat it earlier I'm reminded of Mo Sizlac saying he could flash fry a whole cow in 58 seconds, to which Homer replied "Awww, but I want it NOW!"...

Posted 1 year ago #
njee20 - Member

That be Moe Syzlak saying he can flash fry a buffalo in 40 seconds I believe. Close.

Posted 1 year ago #
poppa - Member

Surely a slower, longer release of protein is more desirable than a sudden increase? Except maybe directly after a ride. Not that I know much about physiology, mind...

Posted 1 year ago #
deft - Member

Creatine helps you eek a little more out of your PCr energy system, this only makes a difference in the first 15-20 seconds of exercise though and so has little/no relevance to anything endurance related

Protein will only hurt if you use it to replace normal food. The stuff Tesco has will be tittingly overpriced though, and you don't need anywhere near the amounts of protein per day body building types think

Posted 1 year ago #
Scienceofficer - Member

I'm talking about immediately after exercise. Read my post.

Posted 1 year ago #
bassspine - Member

If you want you could always have a milkshake after an intense ride - it's natures recovery drink.

bzzzt! beer is the best post-(mountain bike)-ride recovery drink - fluids, protein, carbs, anaesthetic all in one handy pint glass

Posted 1 year ago #
emac65 - Member

I tried creatine three years ago and got cramp on longer rides - I seem to remember googling at the time and finding other's who'd had the same problem.

Yep did exactly the same to me too.....

Posted 1 year ago #
coffeeking - Member

If you have a decent diet its of no use unless perhaps you are an elite athelete looking for that last fraction of a second.

Disagree entirely, from experience. I have a very good diet, but I found having a whey shake within 10 mins of a long commute (17 miles each way) knocked a day off my recovery time (I was having a 2 day break between rides initially due to muscle pain/ache, pretty much overnight I went to riding every other day) and even now if I push myself to the point where I know I'll likely hurt the next day, a shake reduces the pain I seem to have to endure. Creatine had such a small amount of positive effect its negatives were hugely outweighing them so I stopped, I have 3/4 of a tub left that I use occasionally on long rides as an energy drink

Posted 1 year ago #
Simon E - Member

Plenty of people find a recovery drink immediately after exercise helps. Some people argue a shake or similar using cow's milk isn't going to be very good for you but others disagree, depends where you stand on the dairy debate.

Some info on protein intake:
http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrition/factsheets/basics/protein_-_how_much
http://www.theproteinmyth.com/good-sources-of-protein/

If the outcome of supplementing with Creatine are inconclusive I'd suggest that means it isn't necessary or even beneficial for most people. There are lots of snake oil sellers claiming that x supplement is a magic solution for weight loss / weight gain & muscle mass / endurance sport etc etc etc. A degree of scepticism is useful when confronted by these claims (e.g. fish oil). Supplements cannot replace unprocessed food and riding your bike to improve your fitness. Spend the money on fresh fruit and veg instead.

Posted 1 year ago #

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