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Cracked Titanium frame

68 posts & 37 voices | Started 1 year ago by MountainMutant | Latest reply from MountainMutant

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MountainMutant - Member

So without going into details my Titanium frame has cracked around the seat tube/top tube weld.

The frame is just within it's warranty of 4 years (runs out early November) and the warranty is only a half price replacement. The new versions of the frame are £500 more than what I paid new.

I haven't contacted the manufacture yet as my bike is fully insured against breakages etc so though I would contact them first.

They can't inspect the bike until 5 November at the earliest

However they have said that if the frame can be repaired they will do that. Now I am not very happy about this, and maybe jumping the gun but I pay a lot of money to insure my bikes and don't want to be riding a bike with a nasty patch up weld, and also as a 14 stone lump have lost confidence in the frame.

Has anyone had any experience of dealing with insurance companies trying to fob them off with a repair? What happened?

I have attached a pic. Can it be repaired?

MM

Posted 1 year ago #
Chris S - Member

Just leave it to the insurance warranty people to sort out. If your not happy with what they do to it then take the matter further - just don't jump the gun - good things come to those that wait.

Posted 1 year ago #
geetee1972 - Member

So how did it happen? I ask because the first thing that the manufacturer is going to think/say is, 'can we see your seat post please' because that looks for all the world like you've been running too much seat post.

Not sure though I understand what it is you're asking, but what I don't get is why you would have an insurance policy for breakages on top of a warranty? I can sort of understand why an insurance policies first response would be to try to fix it and why you wouldn't be happy with that, but then I think that's a learning curve on insurane policies. I've seen other Ti frames that have been fixed and the outcomes are usually pretty good, almost to the point where the frame wears the very slight scar with pride.

Posted 1 year ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

If the insurance co can get a reputable person to say a repair is safe then why not? I bet they won't tho. I guess its the default position of " we will have to see if it can be repaired" until seen by an engineer rather than anything else

Posted 1 year ago #
Jamie - Member

the warranty is only a half price replacement.

Ouch.

Posted 1 year ago #
missingfrontallobe - Member

Are the company trying to run the clock out ie wait until early november then say "sorry just outside 4 year warranty, so we'll repair it for you blah de blah....."?

If an earlier inspection could assist replacement I'd get the bike to them sooner, cost of travel would be met by frame replacment etc.

Agree with GT that company will want to see seatpost, too short a post insertion past that seat tube top tube junction might have contributed to cracking.

Posted 1 year ago #
MountainMutant - Member

There is 14cm of Thomson post in the frame. Warranty says 10cm minimum.

I'm 6'1" on a large frame.

Just come back from a weeks riding in Spain and noticed it when cleaning the frame on returning.

My insurance covers theft and breakages as long as not used for 'racing'. I have not mentioned to them that it is only just in warranty. I haven't contacted the manufacture yet, but having snapped a frame of theirs already (steel) I only got a discount off a new frame so don't hold out much hope for a good deal.

MM

Posted 1 year ago #
thomthumb - Member

contact manufacturer now. inform them of the situation.

I have seen similar cracks repaired. and recrack. to be repaired with a sleeve.

Posted 1 year ago #
b r - Member

but I pay a lot of money to insure my bikes

Try M&S insurance, mine are included in the house contents and cost next-to-nothing (contents at £120 all-in).

As to the actual repair - I'd just contact the manufacture direct, in the first instance. For example; I recently twatted my Ti frame, and On-One/Lynskey repaired it for £100 all-in, including shipment etc.

Incidently how much seatpost was there 'inside'?

Edit - sorry x-post - 140mm seems a decent amount...

Posted 1 year ago #
cynic-al - Member

Psychle has had exaclty this repair done IIRC, may be worth speaking to him.

Posted 1 year ago #
shortcut - Member

Some insurers won't even inspect if you get something from your tame lbs to say it is not repairable. Contact the insurance. Company and ask what they need!

Posted 1 year ago #
MrSmith - Member

4 years? i though ti frames were 'a bike for life'?

be interested to see what your insurers say. maybe if you tell them of the crash replacement price they will pay that instead of RRP?

Posted 1 year ago #
druidh - Member

I thought the Sodas had a lifetime warranty?

Posted 1 year ago #
MountainMutant - Member

The new ones do. Seems my 'old skool' model doesn't according to the reciept/warranty.

Posted 1 year ago #
pedalhead - Member

The frame is just within it's warranty of 4 years (runs out early November) and the warranty is only a half price replacement. The new versions of the frame are £500 more than what I paid new.

erm, what brand is this? Pretty crappy "warranty", especially for a Ti frame.

edit - just saw your post above. That warranty takes the p*ss imho.

Posted 1 year ago #
cynic-al - Member

That warranty takes the p*ss imho.

And presumably was publicised before the frame was sold?

Posted 1 year ago #
don simon - Member

Should have bought a carbon frame.

Posted 1 year ago #
MountainMutant - Member

I've snapped Steel, now Ti....and I have a carbon road frame. Oh oh!

Posted 1 year ago #
don simon - Member

Be careful and good luck with the claim.

Posted 1 year ago #
geetee1972 - Member

Funny how Cotic's Ti frame went up by £500 while On One's came down by almost as much!

Posted 1 year ago #
jamesb - Member

IMO quite a disappointing warranty! After 3 years my Van Nic road frame cracked at BB weld, leaving big hole, sent back to dealer and no questions asked a replacement arrived within 4 weeks, quite quick given it was over Xmas / New Year period. Was disappointed to have frame break but the lifetime warranty was duly honoured without question. I think you should push mfr harder to get this resolved asap by a full replacement no qs asked

Posted 1 year ago #
JonEdwards - Member

I haven't contacted the manufacture yet

Given I suspect the manufacturer and the company you bought the frame from are one and the same thing, you need to talk to them first (they should always be the first port of call in a warranty incident), before doing anything about insurance. If the frame is what I think it is, then the guys in question are pretty reasonable. Go talk to them.

Posted 1 year ago #
thisisnotaspoon - Member

i though ti frames were 'a bike for life'?

Marketing bulshit alloong with

Lightweight Carbon Composite - theres barely if any weight loss over the aluminium versions, but people want to see a return for their money when buying an expensive model.

Steel is Real - no its just steel, its not iSteel, its just as real as aluminium.

Aircraft Grade Aluminium - well at least its more truthfull than On-Ones being made from Doncaster gas pipe. The foam in easyjet's seats is probably 'aircraft grade', I wouldn't build a frame out of it though?

Posted 1 year ago #
matthewmountain - Member

So what make/model is the frame?

Posted 1 year ago #
Digger90 - Member

Doubtful that can be repaired satisfactorily - as the crack that starts at the TT/ST junction weld extends vertically down the side of the TT away from the weld.

I'd be VERY wary of riding a frame like that after a repair - it looks like an accident waiting to happen.

Posted 1 year ago #
nicko74 - Member

Thought that looked like a Cotic... Good luck with it

Posted 1 year ago #
Macavity - Member

"I've snapped Steel, now Ti....and I have a carbon road frame. Oh oh! "
Yes, stuff breaks.
Bad design is bad design regardless of the materials used.
Just having a quick look at the picture, I would be curious to know what the inside of the top tube looks like. There may have been insufficient purge / shield gas (argon) in the toptube during welding to prevent the tube absorbing oxygen or nitrogen from the air. In which case there will be visible discolouration of the inside surface of the tube, meaning that it is impossible to do an effective repair.
Once titanium (a weld or parent-metal) absorbs too much oxygen or nitrogen (although commercially pure titanium can rely on tiny amounts of oxygen for some improvement in strength) then it is likely to crack.

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/welding-titanium-where

Posted 1 year ago #
poppa - Member

Aircraft Grade Aluminium - well at least its more truthfull than On-Ones being made from Doncaster gas pipe. The foam in easyjet's seats is probably 'aircraft grade', I wouldn't build a frame out of it though?

Yes, but aircraft grade Aluminium is manufactured to very tight quality standards because they need to accurately be able to predict fatigue damage etc. for service intervals. Not quite the same as the foam in easyjets seats!

Posted 1 year ago #
woodsman - Member

Take it up with the brand.

That's the down side with an expensive ti frame, repairability especailly after warranty.

Best of luck

Posted 1 year ago #
Munqe-chick - Member

poppa, are you suggesting that a grade of aluminium, say 7075-T6, is different if its made for an aerospace as opposed to any other application? It either is that grade or it isnt.

Aerospace is the major customer for aluminium alloys so all manufacturers supply that industry, so all their alloys are "aerospace grade".

Alcoa had more difficulty making aluminium components for the Audi A8 than they do for Boeing.

Posted 1 year ago #
Gruenermoench - Member

The early TI Cotics I believe were made in Taiwan, the latter models were Lynskey made.

In a repair scenario the TT would need to be replaced, a blob over the top of the crack would be a bodge job and I definitely wouldnt feel comfortable riding it with my 12 stone let alone your 14. Getting the TT replaced will probably cost Cotic more than it would be just to hook you up with a new frame.

Good luck.

Posted 1 year ago #
NorthCountryBoy - Member

For me working in an industry that uses fabricated ti and alloy regularly that is not a good repairable option. If the crack was around the weld and only on the weld, then it would be less serious. In this case it looks like the tube itself has failed. The crack has then run around the tube . Butt welding tubes that are under tension is not ideal. Not a good repair.

If it was a last gasp attempt to fix or bin perhaps you could re-weld then add a a gusset between seat tube / top tube to support the seat tube and help spread the load between the tube junction.

Posted 1 year ago #
cynic-al - Member

Nicolai style gussets FTW

Posted 1 year ago #
johnners - Member

Not an unfamiliar tale.

"Bike For Life" my gullible arse.

Posted 1 year ago #
NorthCountryBoy - Member

johnners is that seat tube / seat stay? Looks a really strange route for the crack. What did the manufacturer say?

Posted 1 year ago #