I bought a Five Pro from Sunset Bikes in August 2008, rode it around the Lake District for 2 and a bit years and absolutely loved it. Out of curiosity, last winter the parts were swapped to an On One 456 which was equally brilliant, if a little more interesting on the descents. I swapped back to the Five a few months back and shortly after needed to change the bearings (for the second time). I took it to my LBS but the bolts had seized, so it was sent back to Orange.

Shortly after, I got a call saying that Orange had discovered four cracks in the frame – the join where the top tube meets the downtube, the front of the shock mount (main frame), and on both dropouts!

Stunned, I asked what the options were – Ben from Orange (who has been amazing) offered 50% discount from a new frame, which is nice, but I don’t expect a bike with the reputation of the Five to crack after only 2 1/2 years riding. I contacted Sunset and asked if they could help (sale of goods act 1974 – sellers responsibility, not the manufacturers) and they’re sticking with Orange – essentially saying it’s not a manufacturing fault and therefore it’s classed as wear and tear.

Wear and tear? Seriously? So are we all to expect our bikes to wear out after less than 3 years?

Has anyone got any advice as to what to do next? Do I just roll over and suck it up, or is it worth pursuing?

For a successful claim under SOGA you would need to show that it was a manufacturing fault and that a bike should be expected to last longer than this – you would only be entitled to a partial refund as you have had some use from it.

I’d take the half price new frame.

I very much doubt you have any grounds to pursue anything, sounds like Orange have been pretty decent in offering you a discounted new frame, if your not too confident in the brand or the frame then personally i’d buy the frame, sell it on and replace with something from the likes of Specialized, Turner or Nicolai with the sound piece of mind of excellent warranty back up should you need it in the future.

I’m no expert but having to change bearings twice in two years indicates to me that loose or poorly fitted bearings might have something to do with those cracks. Is it normal to replace them every year? Not been my experience with bikes no matter what the mileage.

I’m no expert but having to change bearings twice in two years indicates to me that loose or poorly fitted bearings might have something to do with those cracks.

More likely to indicate poorly maintained bearings.

Any play in the Main Bearings will put a lot more lateral stress on the frame and swing arm,replacing the bearings twice in a year seems a bit excessive..Id take the half price Orange frame.. 😉

The Lakes is very hard on bikes and it will soon identify weakpoints in a bike, If you dont catch them early on,things usually only get worse ime.. 😥

yeah half price frame is essentially equivalent to what you would get if they admitted culpability and made allowance for the use you have had already. Take it.

Thanks for the replies guys. I expected as much, it’s just that you don’t hear of Fives cracking at all. The bearings were only replaced once each year – I was led to believe that was normal, and both times they were replaced by my LBS so I have no reason to doubt the quality of install. As for being poorly maintained, they weren’t pressure washed, in fact the bike was barely washed at all, which would have zero impact on the structure of the frame.

Oh, and I very much doubt a crack in the headtube area has anything to do with the bearings. Dropout cracks at a push, but not headtube

You have had the bike for approx a year out of its warranty period and you have been offered a deal that is less than the trade price that any U.K dealer can buy them in for.

They didnt have to offer anything but you have a good will gesture wafting in front of you.

If you want to take them up on this offer while it still stands* i suggest you make the move tomorrow morning.

*because if they see that you took it to a forum,they might withdraw it ;O)

Sounds harsh to me, I would ask to see if they feel this is common or not and if not then to take an uncommon approach and do better to repair or replace under the circumstances in the name of good customer relations.

cracked in 4 places,,,,, ask them for a patriot frame, sounds liike you need it. 😉

from experiance (and a few 5 frames) i change the bearings every 12 months for peace of mind, a single pivot bike eats bearings far quicker than these fancy multi pivot foriegn numbers.

http://www.emeraldinsight.com/journals.htm?articleid=1682514

“The highest strength wrought aluminium alloys currently available are based on the aluminium-zinc-magnesium-copper system, and such alloys offer considerable potential for weight savings in airframe structures. However, these alloys have presented problems in service, arising from deficiencies in fracture toughness and fatigue crack propagation resistance together with a susceptibility to exfoliation corrosion and stress-corrosion, which have led to restrictions being placed on their use by individual aircraft companies and by procurement authorities in a number of countries. This situation has led to the wide-spread use in the UK and continental Europe of lower strength alloys of the aluminium-copper-magnesium-silicon type, even though significant weight penalties are incurred in the process. There has been a more general acceptance of the high strength aluminium-zinc-magnesium-copper alloys in the USA, where problems associated with their use have been partially alleviated by a willingness to replace components at short intervals, but even so during recent years a trend has developed there towards the use of lower strength versions of these alloys in attempts to improve airframe durability and reliability.”

@martinxyz I was aware they might do that, but so far everything has been very amicable and the guys at both Orange and Sunset have been brilliant. Ben in particular put up with me asking a hell of a lot of daft questions when I first spoke to them about it. There are no hard feelings on my part towards either of them and I understand the situation from their perspective, I just wish there was some way of me proving I’ve not wrecked the frame by doing anything that is out of the remit of the bike.

PS i have cracked a 2007 five at the seat post top tube weld after a big off with the seat post all the way out and they offered to repair NOT REPLACE, i would snatch their hand off,,,,the way things are going, who knows what price we will be paying for a top end frame next year.

Sounds harsh to me, I would ask to see if they feel this is common or not and if not then to take an uncommon approach and do better to repair or replace under the circumstances in the name of good customer relations.

I’d keep screaming and moaning until Mr Orange had 15 Page 3 models sent over with a new Five, and then had them clean and check it for me after every ride.

The bikes aren’t indestructable, but they are just about as tough as the best.

The half price deal is great but also its what I would expect if my 5 cracked in similar circumstances.

Do I just roll over and suck it up

Go and buy something else, I think.

Orange are being very reasonable; you can graciously accept, or moan about it on a forum.

Oops…

Really, it’s a good deal. Take it, and be happy.

@ScottChegg I’m trying not to moan – I was asking for options/what people think I should do.

I’ve only dealt with Marin and Yeti’s warrenty depts, and they’ve been much, much better. Less than 3 years and cracked in four places? (Assuming not crash damage) that sounds pi$$ poor. Not sure what you can about it though, other than a buy a Marin knowing you’d get another if that happened again!

FWIW, Bouught a Marin XC100 in March 2004, cracked the BB shell in Sept 2006, new Mt Vision Pro arrived 3 weeks later. Wrecked the dropouts in May 2007 (after original 3 year warrenty was up) when the mech hanger failed to snap like it should. New swingarm and full set bearings, no quibbles, within a fortnight. I now go around recomending marin to anyone who’ll listen… Lesson for Orange?

would be unhappy if this happened to mine but they are offering a good deal IMHO and I would take it, if you want another Orange that is.

It sounds like a good deal except for the assumption that a near £2k frame is worn out after less then 3 years. Still, I expect plenty of bike makers have been ripped off by the “just riding along” crowd who have been riding off 20 foot drops.

@losmanos exactly. Couldn’t have said it better myself. If I were to take the offer, that is essentially me accepting that the next Five I get could wear out in just over 2 years and I’m back in the same situation.

To be fair you hardly ever hear of them breaking, I would buy the frame for half price. Lets face it, its a lot better than riding a Marin.

It could be a lot worse, they could have told you tough luck, its out of warranty.

I would
1 be annoyed
2 buy the half price frame
3 sell the frame at a profit and buy something else

@munqe-chick see, I don’t want to do that. As my wife keeps telling me – I love my Five and everything about the way it rides.

what Munqe said. Get a Patriot, sounds like you could use it.

Buying a different frame isn’t going to solve the problem, it might just happen again with another brand.

What sort of riding where you doing on it?

I´d agree with the “buy the half price frame and sell it on”. Buy something with a longer warranty.

That kind of damage in under 3 years is suspect, it hardly inspires confidence. Assuming of course that you´re not hucking off 20ft drops.

@flow typical lake district riding (Walna scar, borrowdale bash, Whinlatter) then the 7 stanes in Scotland. Basically, if it’s within a couple of hours of Carlisle I’ll probably give it a go.

One of the reasons I bought the Five, was that many people said it was the perfect Lake District bike, and until recently I’d agree with them.

@sunnrider nope, not 20ft drops. I don’t have the bottle for that. I prefer steep technical stuff, rather than balls out fast riding.

If you sell it on and buy something else, to make it worth while, you will have to find a bike you like more, or as much as, with a life time warranty.

justinbieber – Member

Thanks for the replies guys. I expected as much, it’s just that you don’t hear of Fives cracking at all.

You do if you pay attention, it’s just drowned out by the declarations that they’re tough as old boots. Mostly cracked across the BB shell though rather than this (I’ve seen 2 of these in the metal).

Orange have a short warranty, which I hope you knew about when you bought it, but they’re doing alright by you by offering the discount IMO. I don’t think you can really ask for more- if you want warranty protection that lasts longer you’ve really got to buy a bike with a longer warranty (and also, cynically, when you see something with a short warranty, ask yourself why it’s not longer)

If you loved it, get another. A more positive way to look at it, is that the frame had devalued substantially anyway so this is almost a chance for a refresh. Oh but do check what you’re getting, they might mean a new frame with your old shock in which isn’t such an exciting deal.

I am probably alone on this one, but, two and a half years of riding is a whole lot of riding.
Surely, when its a mountain bike thats pretty good going?

take the 50/50.

Just been looking at warranties

Trek lifetime on main frame, 2 years rear end

Specialized lifetime on main frame, 5 years rear end

Canyon 6 years

Giant 5 years

Lapierre 5 years

Ghost 5 years

Cube 5 years

Orange 3 years

There you go.

I have obviously missed some but I got bored of looking

Oh hang on- I thought it was out of warranty, rather than them declining the warranty. Sorry ’bout that, I was forgetting it gets an extra year over the other full sussers. So comes down to their famously not very good warranty then 🙁 Not so good.

I thought it was out of warranty

Bought August 2011, and “So are we all to expect our bikes to wear out after less than 3 years?” so I’m thinking not

Maybe its just out of warranty then, unlucky or what.

Eh? As far as I’m aware, my frame is 1 year out of warranty. Bought August 2008 with a 2 year warranty.