Recently built a 456 up again and hated it. Dead feeling/dull rear end.

How does the Bfe feel compared?

I can’t afford a Soul although I has a mk1 back in 2004 and it felt jittery(?) is the right word?

I’d like a compromise between dead/dull and jumpy if that makes sense?!

I feel my pipedream sirius mk1 sits somewhere in between the soul and bfe in terms of liveliness. Perhaps a mkII or a Scion?

lower the travel, when the front starts getting jittery you’ll be too busy worrying about that to notice the dead rear

Dead/Dull hardtail = poor hardtail rider

Dead/Dull hardtail = poor hardtail rider

Odd that. I had an Inbred and loved it then later on had a 456 and just couldn’t get on with it. Currently got a Ti Ego and just love it.

Bfe felt like it was made of scaffold tubes.
Bring on the flaming.:)
I liked the 456 tho. So much so I’ve got a frame for winter to swap the parts from my Pitch.

“Dead/Dull hardtail = poor hardtail rider”

Don’t be so quick to judge, perhaps he has more so called “feel” for how a frame rides than yourself?

I agree with him regarding the 456 rear end as i owned one for 4days then sold it to a friend – i had no probs with the way it handled or the weight but the rear end felt like it was filled with lead shot and was unresponsive, perhaps i was expecting too much coming from a custom steel hardtail that used to whip round switchbacks and skip down the trail, the 456 was a good value for money do-it-all frame but it is obviously built to a low price point.

the 456 was a good value for money do-it-all frame but it is obviously built to a low price point.

or built to take a long fork and mash through stuff rather than skip about?

Don’t be so quick to judge, perhaps he has more so called “feel” for how a frame rides than yourself?

been here long? this is hora….

anyhoo OP, what size?

Sit down much, aye?

…….?, not really, i’ve rode only ss for 10+ years so nae chance of sitting down.

Just my opinion on the frame, i happened to agree with the original poster that’s all.

I had a 456 and a bfe both with fox vanilla 140 s. bfe felt more stable in the ruff stuff, tracked better in corners and was more chuck able. I would buy another in a heartbeat. Shit at climbing tho, the 456 was marginally better at that. The bfe felt like a lead pipe on the climbs as if I give a damn.

I made the choice between these 2 frames. This was my line of thinking:
BeFe is a nice frame, and might be better on more technical trails. But most of my riding (in fact, let’s face it, most riding in the UK) doesn’t need a bike like that. You’re hauling all that weight around for no reason 85% of the time.
I wanted more of an all rounder, something comfy and light enough to ride all day, then take the knoks well when I got to them, so I went for the C456.
Apart from the odd design, err, “quirk” I’ve been very happy. It does what it says on the tin, basically.

Dead rear end? If that’s your only criticism then you are over thinking things. I just call it comfy. Hit some roots or rocks at speed and it’s a positive bonus IMO.
I think far too many people spend far too much time placing the emphasis on finding the perfect bike or kit TBH. It’s a bike. All bikes are pretty much the same. Just ride it. 🙂

456 SS much fun bike, i ran one with a u-turn pike up front, yea the rear end was a bit brutal and i pinch flatted lots with it, but i used to have one big smiley cheesy grin on my face at the end of most rocky rooty descends, found it very easy to pop over stuff with, the u-trun helped very much on the climbs, killed me on all day rides though, a good friend o mine tells me he solved his prob with the bike by sticking on 2.5 evo minions, rarely flats never hear him complain about the rear end just rides the s@it out of it and loves it… give it some time youll love it, ive been riding the Bfe for over 2 years now love it too, slightly more comfy than the 456, climbs better, kills me on the all dayers too, but i think thats just an HT thing and me issue, i find the Bfe’s sweet spot is with 120mm up front, well at least for the stuff i ride locally that is, both great bikes, wished i kept the 456 ss frame so i could do swaps when i get bored

hora I didn’t reply as whilst I have a BFe which I love I’ve not ridden a 456 so couldn’t answer your specific question, I just didn’t like the look of the 456 so I discounted it early in my search for a fun hardtail.

All I can say is I find the BFe huge fun, very lively, chuckable etc. I have no issue riding and climbing nor do I find it overly stiff (or built of scaffolding !?) on long rides (4-6 hours). I have adjustable forks 120/150 so best of both worlds in terms of handling and security/ability downhill.

Hora, if you’re in the peak anytime, you’re quite welcome to have another blast on my BFe.

At the time, my choice was between the 2 frames. I mainly went for the BFe due to its favorable looks, good reviews and compatibility with my existing components. I really love the thing, it’s not too heavy and I’m quite happy doing long days on it.

One of the guys I ride with has a Beefy, he’s well quick and he reckons it rides far better than his previous FS.

I had a steel 456 before swapping it out for a 456Ti. The steel seemed to be comfier at slower speeds and a bit rough at higher speeds, while the Ti is the opposite – but both work best with big volume low psi tyres.

I only rode it at the pub!!

456 or 456evo?

Had a 456 (now my wifes) and did not like it at all. Had a go on my brother’s 456 last night and it was terrible. Felt like I was riding a supermarket bike. The ’97 Zaskar I had last year felt better.

I have had a BFe since Feb and it is great.I normally use it just for local stuff and Cannock but I took it to the Peak and it was brilliant. I was beating one lad DH who had a 180mm Felt fs. Normally I would have use my enduro for that ride but wanted to the the BFe, I don’t think I would have had more fun on the Enduro.

Have to say I agree with the OP, ridden loads of HTs and own 2 now (Carbon & Ti), but hated the 456 (1st gen steel version).

Mk1 (pre 2010) bfe rear end was alot stiffer according to the bikeradar review. CEN onwards has more ‘give’

You mean you didn’t fall in love with it after 5 mins? 😀

Like I said, you can have a proper go sometime if you want.

Still riding my old Kona Cowan with the biggest seat stays ever. On my second Thompson seat post, I bent the 1st, yes bent a Tompson. Its stiff but I would call it dead! I know what the rear is doing all the time.
I am thinking of getting a Stanton Slackline because it looks like its almost the same shape.
I may get a BFe before that though (if I can get my timing right).

Not ridden the BFe, but like the look of it lots. I’ve had 456 builds and loved them, and in contrast, foolishly swapped one out for an 853 frame (not Cotic or OnOne) and hated it. Not sure if any of that’s any help now I’ve written it, but I personally think the 456 is a great riding frame.

I_ache I wish Id gotten a medium Enduro not a large with hindsight.

Too late now its raw 8)

You seem to be coming at HTs etc currently from the same angle as me so I will take the plunge…

My Enduro (raw too) is a Medium as is my BFe, technically they are too small as I am 6 foot but they are spot on for most of my riding. Yes I could do with a large FS for all day rides but I wouldn’t swap the Enduro for one, and I can’t afford another bike.

I thought the basic feel of the 2 was pretty similiar. BFe better handling but it seems like once you get that much steel in a frame, they all end up feeling pretty solid and dead. BFe certainly never felt as lively or as enthusiastic as the Soul did.

Obviously I’m a raging Cotic fanboi but in this case, I didn’t think it was worth the extra, it lacked too much of what made the Soul great.

What exactly are you expecting the rear end to feel like?

I’ve a 456 SS and the rear feels grand. It’s a 20″ frame so the extra tube length may or may not make a difference to how it rides compared to medium/small frame. It is steel though, and kind feels like it’s doing what it’s supposed to most of the time, but i’m generally more concerned about the front of a bike so don’t pay too much attention to the back unless its a real issue.

On bumpy, up bits with the seat high it’s a fairly firm (i’d replace your dead/dull with a plain ole bumpy) ride, so if you do a bit of that and want comfort, then it’s not the frame you are looking for [wave of hand in an Alec Guinness stylee]. When partaking in standy-uppy riding the back feels as dead/lively/jumpy as my legs allow. I find it spot on for everything else and the only thing I would change is the stand over height on mine – an inch lower would even do it.

I get the impression some bike companies don’t put that much thought into large frames – or don’t have tall test riders???

I’ve not ridden the other one but it’ll be slightly different, i’m sure.

I’ve owned a 456 previously. I liked it to a degree but I loved my old Chameleon a massive amount more (even though that did have a stiff but not heavy rear end).

I also owned a mk1 soul but it really did feel jumpy/flexy- so did the Ti 456 (although that just felt very flexy to me). I’m looking for a middle ground- not too heavy but not waay too lively. The steel Sanderson Life felt a good frame but you can’t run longer forks on etc etc (sadly). I’m hoping the Bfe is a good compromise between heavy rear end and too springy.

Out of interest Hora what do you weigh? Not being rude just that this can really effect how a frame feels. For instance a Ti 456 is going to feel stiff to somebody who is 8 stone, comfortable for 12 stone and bag of noodles for somebody 20 stone.

I’m 15 stone and the BFe feels firm but not harsh.

I have just replaced a 456 with a soul which I did manage to get cheaper in a sale. Very very superior. Climbs better and seems to go down better [within my skill limits]. I have been trying to analyse the differences empiricaly but it just comes down to overall feel.
I was originally satisfied with the 456 but had a test ride on the Soul which was made me totally dissatisfied with the 456. It took me a year after that to get the money together for a Soul but after 2 weeks it seems money well spent. The BeFe seems so similar in geometry and build though obviously heavier tubes that I can’t believe it won’t be equally superior to the 456.

I’ve owned a 456 previously. I liked it to a degree but I loved my old Chameleon a massive amount more (even though that did have a stiff but not heavy rear end).

I also owned a mk1 soul but it really did feel jumpy/flexy- so did the Ti 456 (although that just felt very flexy to me). I’m looking for a middle ground- not too heavy but not waay too lively. The steel Sanderson Life felt a good frame but you can’t run longer forks on etc etc (sadly). I’m hoping the Bfe is a good compromise between heavy rear end and too springy.

Rather than constantly changing frames/bikes/forks just ride the damn things.

Rather than constantly changing frames/bikes/forks just ride the damn things.

Ever bought something and stuck with it even though it feels wrong?

1 year and counting on the Enduro frame. Thanks Renton 😆

hora I cannot remember where you are based. I’m Surrey Hills and you are welcome to have a ride of my BFe (medium 2012 model).

What seat post(s) do you recommend? Post choicr seems critical

I run a Thomson on mine – most people moan and say they’re too stiff… on a hardtail… 🙄

The only time I tend to sit down is on the winch up, then it’s drop the post, and hoon it all the way back down.