Sorry I could’t reply to this earlier (I’m only allowed to go on the internet during my one hour out of solitary) but I’m all for it. Never did me any harm.

Back in the 80’s you would be unlucky to use the belt more 3 times a year.

Exactly! And all the kids knew that’s what they’d receive if they dicked around.

What now ? Ohh, you naughty boy/girl, please don’t do that again, PLEAAAASSEE….

Tell you what every and i mean EVERY kid i teach who is a problem or has “issues” come from a broken home.

Thats not to say every kid from a broken home has issues.

But there is not a teach alive who does not recognise the link between behviour and broken home (usually lack of father figure in the home).

Of course hitting children makes them respect authority and always behave themselves. At school in Glasgow in the 70s we had corporal punishment and the whole city was a safe zone full of people giving you flowers and tipping their bunnnets

the whole city was a safe zone full of people giving you flowers and tipping their bunnnets

😆

Ah, the good old days. Things were so much better then

Hmmmm this old chestnut

Do I agree with corporal punishment Yes
Was I on the recieving end of it a few times yes
Did I learn a few lessons from it Yes (do not get caught)
Did I complain to my folks about it no bloody way cos I would of got even worse from them.

Its not about child abusing but teaching right from wrong

As for the single parent bit well thats a bit poor, I am remarried and my wife brought up her son by herself who is now 19 and she did a bloody good job of it too.
Why because he learnt right from wrong and rarely copped a few along the way but he did know that if he crossed the line he would get a slap, is he a bad kid for it no

ok so where does the problem lie well here goes

Back in the late 50’s there was this child phycoligist called Dr Spock ( its the truth honestly).
He advocated that you should not chastise your kids but reason with them.
So as a child from the 60’s I recieved no dicipline or value of right and wrong
by the late 70’s I have a kid who recieved no dicipline or learns the value of right and wrong
in the late 90’s that kid has a kid who does not know how to bring up a family
And the child of the 90’s is now a teenager 4th generation of the children of Dr Spock

Scary thing is I am not quite 50 and this scenario would make me a great grand dad 😮

I am sure I will get abused for my thoughts so fire away but nicely please 😉

If any teacher used violence against one of my children they would swiftly find themselves on the recieving end of the same treatment.

as a teacher I dont feel the need or want to hit anyone. Cattle prods would be a laugh everyonce in a while but not a cane.

Its not about child abusing but teaching right from wrong

yes everyone knows you cannot do this without the use of violence. Preferably from some one much bigger than you and with authority ober you…jees if this wont teach them right from wrong then I dont knwo what will.
having worked in a school you dont want to give some of those social misfits the power to be even bigger bullies. generaly teachers who cannot command a childs respect cannot command an adults either.

But there is not a teach alive who does not recognise the link between behviour and broken home (usually lack of father figure in the home).

can i dispel this myth for you [ teacher you see]..yes they tend to have family home issues but to suggest that this does not include ones where there are two parents is BS. They tend to be from poor homes as well which tend to be single parents but again not all. It is not as simple or as clear cut as you suggest.

SBZ

If your kid was out of control at school what would you do about it???

now there is a fine line between violence and punishment

Is a slap from a loving parent at the appropriate moment an act of love or an act of agression

Alas we live in a generation where school is considered to be a convienient form of child minding. Is it not the job of a parent to bring up kids to teach them right from wrong so teachers can be teachers with dicipline coming from the family home???

BTW there is no way in hell I would be a teacher

Junkyard, no one suggested it was that simple, but just that there is a clear link between broken homes and disruptive pupils. Its not really a point that can be debated, unless you like arguing black is white!

All im saying that there is a link between broken homes and disipline, not giving an great insight to it.

We are slowly being changed from teachers to social working child minders anyway. Im hoping that i get paid £5/hr per child i look after.

Errr Don’t hit that class mate or I will hit you ?
Explain

there is a clear link between broken homes and disruptive pupils. Its not really a point that can be debated, unless you like arguing black is white

Can you back that up with evidence that seperates the broken home factor from poverty or hundreds of other factors?

For me the biggest factor is lack of father figures, for both girls and boys.

For girls they end up looking for love at an early age for boys rather than eing secure and loved by their dads. This usually ends up in the creation of girls with loose jeans.

For boys they tend to want to be the man in the house and think that this translates to being the man everywhere and when another man tells them to do something they push back and want to lock horns.

Sorry but kids really need 2 parents. Sorry if that make me sound old.

No it doesn’t make you sound old.

What you state is a view not a fact and i would prefer hard facts rather than emotive polemic?
Most interesting I could find after 1 whole minute googling is

Shall we discount a father figure ?

I must be stupid i dont get your point???

the households with a step parent have a father figure yet they fare worse than single parent households[ presuming most single parent are female]
It negates your “father figure” argument as the worst group has a “father figure”.

You probably want to argue for the nuclear family /parents staying together as that gives the best outcome. You have to give a reason why this works that is not related to “father figure”.
I am not trying to patronise [ for once] with that explanation so sorry if i did.

To be honest i would rather go from my experience as a teacher having taught 1000’s of kids rather than using google.

And not to sound pedantic but im talking about behaviour and your “statistics” show that the two groups you are talking about are the same 15%. A fair difference from the married parents. Best not get into the challenges of being a step parent.
I guess i should have said father figure in a steady stable married relationship with the mother. Maybe thats helped clarify it for you.

steven – the problem is you cannot separate the effects of poverty from single parent families.

I bet there is a far stronger correlation with poverty and poor behaviour than there is between presence and absence of a parent.

However I do also believe that a two parent family makes it easier to bring up well adjusted children

And not to sound pedantic but im talking about behaviour and your “statistics” show that the two groups you are talking about are the same 15%.

One group has a father figure and one group does not have a father so it does dispel your father figure argument that I was responding to. The point being they are the same, so there is no difference to having or not having a father figure is there? but your repeat it in your clarification for some reason.
EDIT: why have you given great weight to your subjective experience and then used ” to describe the statistics? Seems odd tbh

just shoot every one. Problem solved

If you feel enthusiastic about hitting children maybe you yourself need a slap?

What a ridiculous way to try and provide children with an example of how to understand right and wrong.

It’s wrong.
I was corporally punished as a child. It sorted me out for a bit, I went back off the rails later on when I felt that threat had diminished but it worked for a while.

I fully accept that it doesn’t work for everyone. And is wrong generally.

CharlieMungus – Member
Really? Where is that line?

Lightly smacking a child because they are mis-behaving and other discipline methods have not been effective is totally different to coming home from work in a bad mood and deciding to beat a child to relieve your frustrations.

They are both physical contact but have contrary reasonings / purposes and intentions.

What a ridiculous way to try and provide children with an example of how to understand right and wrong.

I’m not sure this was ever the reasoning behind corporal punishment. It was about bullying them (the child that steps over the line) into acting in a way conducive to allowing actual education to take place in the classroom. Very often I would imagine those that profited from the punishment were the classmates of punished child that had an improved educational experience not disturbed by the “offenders” to quite the same extent. If the child that got punished modified their behaviour and were bullied into behaving in a way that prevented them from being expelled so they actually experienced some learning that was a useful spin off but not the prime purpose. There were obviously some tossers in the profession that abused their position and punished for fun or to cover up their inadequacies but I don’t believe this was the general norm or prime objective.

Don’t get me wrong, as a modern day teacher and someone whose own schooling did not involve corporal punishment the thought of carrying it out now seems abhorrent but that does not mean I can’t understand the logic behind it. I teach in a school now where I have to think long and hard to remember the last time I had to raise my voice. Kids want to learn, teachers want to teach. I have also worked in schools where even the very best and most experienced and “entertaining” teachers were given no chance to pass on knowledge to quite frankly feral children intent on disturbing and destroying anything put in front of them. Would “bullying” these kids into better behaviour which in years to come when they are old enough and mature enough to see it even they might admit has allowed them to access an education be all bad?

And to those that say corporal punishment is just teaching a “might has right” attitude – how much time have you spent within a school environment in recent times (i.e with adult eyes)? Years and years after corporal punishment disappeared from schools statics for child on child bullying using violence are at the same levels they always were. I’m not sure the correlation is as strong as some suggest.

Saladdodger – i’d explain to them that what they were doing was wrong and why it was wrong then make them do exercises that would produce lactate and teach them the lesson that way.

then again if you catch them trying to drink bleach a small slap is a good idea, just so they link drinking bleach with pain.

Sorry but kids really need 2 parents

I didnt have a father and seem to have done OK, educationally at least, with a degree, masters and PhD.
Need is far too strong a word and no one here has been able to show any reliable evidence for the link between behaviour and fathers. Frankly I think you are just coming out with simplistic crap as an answer to a complex problem.

PMSL where did you find your PhD a lucky dip.

In case you didnt realies this is a biking forum, not a **** government white paper discussion about the issues of single parent families.

Wow you didnt have a father and didnt turn out to be a tit, (well not much)
Take a bow, well done, have yourself a beer on me. Whilr you are at it take that chip of your shoulder it must be making you walk squint.

PMSL where did you find your PhD a lucky dip.
In case you didnt realies this is a biking forum, not a **** government white paper discussion about the issues of single parent families.

Wow you didnt have a father and didnt turn out to be a tit, (well not much)
Take a bow, well done, have yourself a beer on me. Whilr you are at it take that chip of your shoulder it must be making you walk squint.

This whole post just stinks of sour grapes, lets face it you posted some poor thought out crap, tried to justify it with your “experience” , have been roundly shown to be utterly misguided mainly through your weak arguments, lack of evidence, ignorance and general kneejerk daily mail attitude, when the final nail goes in your coffin you just start slinging insults. What a sad individual you are. Perhaps you could edify yourself by actually learning from your mistakes. I’d start by reading a book. Anything really but an education must start somewhere.

Yawn

Even by stw standards that is poor
FFS you are a teacher and that is how you respond
EDIT: I wrote that before the yawn
Seriously what a moron cannot understand a fairly simple chart and then you lash out like a frightened child in class who does not understand.
very poor

Double yawn with cheese on.

Is that childish enough for you.

So steve you are right based on what evidence? Your own prejudice?

To be honest i would rather go from my experience as a teacher having taught 1000’s of kids rather than using google.

I too am a teacher and am certain your talking crap, but hey ho.

Wow you didnt have a father and didnt turn out to be a tit,

I didnt say that, if you could be bothered to read you will see that I just claim to have done pretty well educationally.

I am teacher as well so we win 2-1 – hopefully that maths is simple enough to grasp 😉